Wait a minute… Galileo was a guy. Newton was a guy. So was Einstein. 
Therefore, science is worthless.
It’s just a book… it’s the “holy” part you have to watch out for.
I think turtle is finally over coming the barrier between manipulative religious matrix and the reality…
Eh… none of it’s holy, want to know why? Because I refuse to get on my knee’s and kiss the hand of any man that claims they are holier, more powerful, and more godly than I or anyone else is.
Want holy? the emerald tablets, now that right there is holy and HUMBLE, which Jesus isn’t. “I am the son of god… I do miracles… and stuff.”
if you choose “or not” you get judged, demonized and hated and before these times you’d be burned and stoned… careful. 
Do true research, read the oldest that you can find. Go to the libraries, go online to the library that has copies of all published texts, can’t think of it’s name right now.
When you rely on one “authority” , you tend to lose.
Do you honestly think females had zero influence in what was written or that all women were written as bad? Research.
There’s a difference between using those things as tools IN a war and starting A war over something. Those subjects aren’t supposed to be the point or epitome of “good and holy” religion and Christianity is. So it’s contradictory for it to be used to hurt. Those others aren’t.
I am going to need my rib back Kris.
After I am done with it.
Turtle, Why don’t you start a thread that has each book and chapters of the Old Testament. It then can be studied and discussed truly.
Did any of those guys make up rules about marriage and witchcraft and stoning people to death? Did they own slaves and concubines? Offer their virgin daughters to the mob? Impregnate the maid and throw her out into the desert? If that was the kind of thing science depended on, then science would be as worthless as religion is.
Just read the book. No, the women are not all written as bad: some are obedient. Start with Genesis, it has a lot of narrative.
The simple claim that any book is “sacred” is an affront to truth.
All books have to be open to critique and analysis to the point that any and all of the things they contain can be damned as lies where necessary.
That certainly clarifies what makes science worthwhile or worthless. Thanks. 
No, no, no. It means THE book.
It contains more examples of abuse, exhortations to violence and bad moral instructions than any good ones.
The danger of giving any book a sacred status is that the contents can be view as good because they are in the Bible.
For the modern world it is almost completely useless.
There is not a word about the protection of children, women, or people of different races.
It promotes the heirachical establishment and provides ammunition to bigotry.
It is the mainstay of the NRA, Anti-abortionists, KKK, White Power, Republicans, and the most noxious elements of American society.
You fucking need a new book mate!
I have read the old, the new, King James, , I also know that the other texts that have survived did only print male authors but, were influenced and enhanced by females. I know this because I actually researched , read, listen, and mistrust authority. The highly educated have agendas when writing about history. Ego and desire to be right warps truth.
Here people take written works out of context all the time and twist it to suit their desire. You honestly think that the “authorities” are immune to this?
There is an old saying: The victor writes history.
The biblical authorities pro and con, pick and choose, twist and convince.
Before you make judgments, make sure they are yours after indepth research.
Women have influenced, input , changed , given ideas, thoughts to males since beginnings. Men take credit, women just let them. Ego at play.
The uniqueness of the Scriptures is based on their origin and source. The Bible writers claimed they did not originate their messages but received them from divine sources. It was through divine revelation that they were able “to see” the truths they passed on.
Lev wrote:
Lev your argument is compelling and is a lot easier than struggling to keep any old commandments.
“Even to your old age, I am He, and even to gray hairs I will carry you! I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you” (Isa. 46:4).
“Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it” (Prov. 22:6).
I do not understand the point of this. Are you saying that women were - at least indirectly - responsible for the patriarchal attitudes expressed in the OT? Or that apocrypha would shed a more favourable light? (What I read of the ‘lost books’ was poor literature and deserved to be edited out.)
Well, yes; all authorities do that. It doesn’t make the product any more sacred, user-friendly or palatable.
Actually, some judgments can be made on surface appearance and practical application. If it smells like a stink-bomb, I don’t really care do delve into how, when, where, why and by whom it was constructed; I’m outa there.
if women did not agree with patriarchy, it would not have happened. We did not just get brains or personalities within the past 100 years.
Apocrypha, is given that title because someone with authority declared it so. The quality is not important, the message is.
True about a stink bomb but, then we are not talking about something so easy to decide.
kris what would catholic women like to change in their church if anything
I know few Catholic women, so I do not know the answer. I do know that faith comes before church with those women.
No always true thankfully. Many of the most viciously indoctrinated Christians can find themselves free of that doctrine, with the example of others, but it’s not easy.