The Bible and Science

A lot of people, both religious and non-religious, think that most of modern, ‘main-stream’ science contradicts the Bible. I put the ‘main-stream’ in quotes because this is a word trick, probably developed by the Christian right, to give a negative connotation to a field that is often populated by atheists or at least those who are corroborating a story that doesn’t fit with what the Bible says. If we look, though, the contradictions don’t have to be there.

Some ‘contradictory’ claims:

The universe is about 6000 years old
The universe is waaaaay old

There was a global flood
There was no great worldwide deluge

The universe and earth were created in six days with animals basically as they exist now
The earth was formed over billions of years and animals evolved to their present state
Let’s look at the first pair of contradictions. This one is easy. The universe appears, from a ‘main-stream’ science point of view, to be much much older than 6000 years. One of the great ‘problems’ ‘Christian science’ has with their own theory is developing a model that accounts for the transmission of light from distant starts to earth in that little amount of time. Are they serious? The’re talking about the creation of the UNIVERSE by an ALL-POWERFUL being! If the universe is only 6000 years old, their God could’ve either sped up the speed of light for a day or simply made hundred million light-year long light waves attached to the stars at the same time he made the stars themselves. What we do know are the current properties of the universe and that the stars look like they’re that far away, so it makes sense to think of them as being older than 6000 years. But that doesn’t mean that they weren’t created 6000 years ago. Problem solved.

Next we have the flood story. This comes down to whom you believe, the ‘main-stream’ scientists or the ‘Christian scientists’. I think the ‘main-streamers’ have been as objective as possible throughout history, whether religious or non-religious. There’s no hidden agenda for most of the broad, broad field of science to squash Christianity. However, the ‘Christian scientists’ do have an agenda: to prove their beliefs. Most of their field didn’t stumble upon data and derive an explanation, they stumbled upon an explanation and derived data. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for thinking about things in new ways, but theories that make the earth only a few thousand years old (in appearance, not in actuality) and allow for a worldwide flood that covered mountains fly in the face of what science has basically proved over thousands of years. If the ‘main stream’ theories on the age of the earth and the lack of a flood were unfounded, like the cosmic ether theory, that would be another story. But there’s a lot more data against the global flood than there was for the ether, so there’s little room to make an Einsteinian scientific revolution argument here.

Again, this doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a flood. God could have made the flood and then erased all traces of it ever happening. Also, there’s plenty of evidence that there were fantastically large floods in ancient times. So when the Bible says that the flood covered the whole world, maybe the ‘Christian scientists’ should reinterpret what the ‘whole world’ means. The whole known world? A specific place? We all know Hebrew is a complex language with words that have multiple meanings, and most agree that at least some of the Bible shouldn’t be taken literally. Otherwise we should have a bunch of blind, handless, footless ‘Christian scientists’ carrying on their work by dictation!

And now we get to the last pair: evolution. The same logic that lets the earth be both 6000 years old and appear to be much older fits here. An all-powerful God could easily put all the animals on earth and also put a record of what their evolution would have been if it had occured. Why try to sever humans from apes? Does evolution seem too dirty to the ‘Christian scientist’? Why try to put dinosaurs on earth at the same time as man? ‘Main-stream’ science, and I would think most dinosaur paleontologists only have an agenda to learn, not to attack the Bible, says that dinosaurs are separated from man by about 65 million years. And they have good reason to believe that based on data, not some preconcieved wish that the dinosaurs were dead for a long time because they’ve been afraid of dinosaurs since they were six.

People can believe what they want to believe, but don’t they shouldn’t try to reinvent science to fit their beliefs; it’s unnecessary. The universe could easily be both 6000 years old and appear to be much older. The Flood could have happened, just not on the scale the Bible says, or if it did happen exactly as the Bible says the evidence was erased by God. Man could appear to have evolved from a single cell, and also have been created as is.

Can we stop fighting now? Christians, leave science alone. Scientists, leave Christianity alone. Both of you, point out when the other isn’t being objective.

Stop fighting or so help me I will turn this car around and we won’t go to (everlasting life/existential happiness).

Cool beans. I never really understood why, given the limitless possibilities for science, people would use it to try and disprove god. Why set out to do so?

If you can prove how the earth came in to existance, cool. Don’t set out to prove the non-existance of god.

Trying to separate theology from science, is like trying to pick yourself up.

Khun is rolling over in his grave.

I don’t see it so much as seperating the two as not setting out to cause a war between the two. Science can be applied to the Bible…but why bother setting out to disprove parts of it? Has any Christian ever been convinced to change their religion based on a scientific finding?

It’s not separating the two, it bridges the gap. A Christian could believe that the universe is only 6000 years old but appears to be much older by God’s design. Why God would do this is an entirely different question, but there is no doublethink there.

Think of it like a movie released in 2000 but set in the year 1800. The buildings and clothes appear to be 200 years old, but we know they were created not long ago, and for the purposes of the movie you accept that the buildings and clothes are from 200 years ago.

Why exactly would Khun be rolling over in his grave? Did you mean Kuhn? And why would he be rolling over in his grave?

Because Kuhn thinks that science is a process by which old beliefs are overturned according to a standard method. Religion is completely different in that respect. Maybe that doesn’t make sense. If so, please disregard.

Oh, I should add that it’s possible that the Flood happened and God erased all traces of its existence. But it’s silly to say that it looks like it happened. I’m going to edit this in to the original post.

The Bible is pre-science. Biblical thought is not scientific. The Biblical world view and the scientific world view are different and in many ways irreconcilable. The Bible can be understood historically, theologically, religiously or as literature. But Biblical writers lived well before the discoveries of modern physics, biology and chemistry and knew nothing about those disciplines. But for the silly assertions of fundamentalists and literal-minded atheists, this would be obvious.

I’m not saying the Bible is scientifically accurate. I’m saying that when you’re dealing with a book that claims God is all-powerful, you don’t need to confirm the Bible scientifically. For the sake of science, we should assume that the Biblical account is not correct, and religious-types shouldn’t have a problem with that. They can both believe that the Bible is telling the truth and that things appear to be different from what the Bible says.

Right. All one has to believe is that an All-powerful God went out of his way to arrange the universe in order to deceive us. And of course you, being a “non-religious type” can retain your superior view that “the Biblical account is not correct.” The way I see it, you simply lack the will to appreciate the Bible on it’s own terms for what it is. That, though you may never recognize it as such, is your loss.

No. What I’m saying is the Bible doesn’t appear to be correct, not that it’s incorrect. Having faith that God made everything appear differently from how it is is no more a leap than believing in God is.

Qualification noted. How do you measure leaps in logic? In any case, yours is a leap in the wrong direction.

I almost wrote the sentence this way:

“Having faith that God made everything appear differently from how it is is no more a leap of faith than believing in God is.”

…but I thought having just said faith, and the commonality of the phrase ‘leap of faith’, and that most religious types still believe in the necessity of a leap of faith, I thought the ‘of faith’ would be implied. Maybe I was too subtle.

Anyway, I wasn’t talking about logic. But I’d love to hear how this is a leap in the wrong direction.

Too subtle? Don’t flatter yourself. :smiley: I was equating a leap of faith with a leap in logic. Your thread is apparently directed at young earth creationism. But such a literalistic interpretation is unnecessary for the Christian faith. Young earth creationism has not been held by many orthodox Christians for centuries. Your idea goes in the wrong direction for theists. The notion that God has intentionally constructed the universe to make it look older than it is makes God a deceiver. That violates the righteousness of God. Nice try. No thanks.

Good, then this is not directed at you. This is directed at those that would attempt to prove young earth creationism through ‘science’.

Not any more than him allowing murder, plauge, etc. etc. And I think a good Christian would ask you who you are to question God’s motives or methods. The whole of our life is a test for Christians, so maybe he’s throwing in a few trick questions.

By the way, I personally don’t believe that the universe is 6000 years old and appears to be much older, I believe the latter. I think you knew that, but I’m just making sure.

The point here is to create a middle ground so we don’t have ‘Christian scientists’ muddying up a perfectly good discipline.

In short, yes. Me.