This is an interesting article on the way that self-interest and greed motivate the capitalist personality. These motivations used to be somewhat suppressed as people recognized that such motivations need some sort of regulation or dampering; but nowadays nobody cares and these traits have taken on a kind of egregious, funhouse mirror, in your face place in both media and politics. I do not think that people are fundamentally self-interested or greedy, but rather that their assumptions create a kind of endless feedback loop based on huge fear, mainly due to the scarcity principle and views based on elitism and the doctrine of the elect. Anyway, here’s the link:
wow, that’s riddled with straw-men.
Yup.
the only narrative that people see is the capitalism narrative. If that is the only
choice offered, that is what people will act on, but offer people another narrative
and that will create a choice. Marxism is a different narrative, as is anarchism.
marxism narrative (as written by marx) is still an economic narrative, (marx was an economist)
Man is an economic being, but by the state having possession of the means of production, direct words of marx,
the worker could have one job in the morning, the rest of the day off and another job the next morning and the next
afternoon off. the only narrative economic we hear is that capitalism is the only possibility, but that is not true. In fact, we
have had 8 different economic models since man has been around, hunter-gatherer, capitalism, marxism, mercantilism,
anarchism, barter, slavery, mixed system. each one of this systems have a different economic narrative and
a different narrative about the nature of people.
we need to create a new narrative.
Kropotkin
How long does capitalism have to be the most successful economic system and the one that everyone is moving to before we can say that it’s not “unraveling at the seams”?
All sentient beings? Really? And this just happens? Do the mothers of the world believe this, as they struggle to teach their kids to have compassion for their own siblings? As we grow, we have an increasing ability for compassion. That doesn’t mean that compassion just occurs without being taught.
That’s correct - if we are not taught the benefits of compassion, we may not learn them. And these psychological problems are also social problems. being a psycho isn’t so bad if you happen to run a country, for instance.
Sure. This already smells of some sort of Hobbesian anthropomorphisation of social systems.
That’s simply false and a gross oversimplification of the capitalist economic model. Maybe the author should study simple markets. Self-interest is not antithetical to co-operation.
What? Economic well-being is not the only element of happiness. No economist says that it is.
This is the Hollywood version of capitalism. Wealth is merely assets beyond what is necessary for subsistence. You don’t have to be rich to be a capitalist, or to thrive in a capitalist system. If all capitalism did was to provide economic security - short of “being rich”, then it does its job.
Love to see the data on this.
Oh yeah - the “conclusion” so far, which was, just a few words ago, the assumption so far. Awesome logic.
Of course, we will go right to corporate CEO’s, which is the real theme here. It’s just another anti-big business polemic. Which is fine - many people, myself included, have grave reservations about the US big-company corporate model. But that is the bathwater and not also the baby. The fact is that we regulate corporations to accommodate the public good. Maybe not enough, but the easiest thing in the world is to take something out of context. Capitalism is never pure, nor extant outside a wider social and political system. Are Bill gates and Warren Buffet, perhaps the prototypical corporate moguls at present, entirely evil? It would be cynical indeed to say so, given the actual facts.
Ahhhh - corporations evil - government good. neither is entirely true - this is socioeconomic theory rendered in crayons. Big fat crayons of primary colors. Does he not notice that the world’s leading capitalist country is also one of its most democratic?
Peter - we are creating a new narrative all the time. It’s the never-ending story. When you look at the US’ slow, uneven crawl to greater socialism, are you not encouraged? Do we really need a revolution?
J: It’s time for us all to confront this taboo. Capitalism rests on several key ideas regarding human motivation and development that fly in the face of much of Western psychology. Here I will focus on two of these: that people are primarily self-interested and that the acquisition of material wealth is the key to happiness. If these “insights” prove false or seriously incomplete, then capitalism unravels at the seams.
[/quote]
F: How long does capitalism have to be the most successful economic system and the one that everyone is moving to before we can say that it’s not “unraveling at the seams”?
K: is it the most successful? Depends on the criteria. For sheer length of time, the hunter-gatherer existed for over a million years.
The point can be debated because who says capitalism is the most successful, the capitalist or the dirt poor starving?
F: Ahhhh - corporations evil - government good. neither is entirely true - this is socioeconomic theory rendered in crayons. Big fat crayons of primary colors. Does he not notice that the world’s leading capitalist country is also one of its most democratic?
K: surly you jest that we are one of the most democratic? have you been paying attention? Due to mr. bush, we lost most of the bill of rights.
Freedom of religion? your kidding right? freedom of speech, gone. habeas corpus, gone. Try boarding a plane, can anyone say strip search.
We have lost substantial freedoms. Try bringing a sign opposing the president to a presidential rally, sign will be taken away. You legally cannot
protest the president within an half mile. try it sometime. no freedom there.
Peter - we are creating a new narrative all the time. It’s the never-ending story. When you look at the US’ slow, uneven crawl to greater socialism, are you not encouraged? Do we really need a revolution?
K: the war has been going on for 30 years already. Since Mr. raygun began his attacks on the unions. now we have attempts to defund
planned parenthood, national endowments for the arts, NPR, state employee’s pensions, WIC programs which help poor women buy food
for their children, schools, attacks on teacher unions, the list goes on and on. See Wisconsin’s budget if you have any questions.
I am not advocating revolution, I am simply saying, we should fight back in this ongoing war on the middle class and the working poor.
I suggest you haven’t really notice the ongoing narrative. take a new look at what is really being said, by the 2012 presidential candidates
and the local governors, such as in Fla and Wisc. You will see what I see. the war already in full swing.
Kropotkin
You got me there, Peter. if you’re going to nominate the hunter-gatherer society as the one that beats capitalism, I won’t argue the point. No hunter-gatherers ever starved.
Democracy does not guarantee that we can get on a plane without being searched. Democracy does not guarantee any specific right. You’re arguing with a point that I did not make.
So there are those that don’t want to pay for some things that you think we should pay for. That is your attack on capitalism?
Yikes.
I am a ittle confused at this point. How can an economic system be studied with clinical psychology?
I thought clinical psychology had to do with the minds and behavior of people. And I am not sure the word clinical should be used if you are dealing with so called normal behavior.
If you are talking about private enterprise then the analysis needs to be different.
An added idea----The psychology of men and women is different. Women seem to like babies and men like to fight. Both like sexual intercourse.
K: the war has been going on for 30 years already. Since Mr. raygun began his attacks on the unions. now we have attempts to defund
planned parenthood, national endowments for the arts, NPR, state employee’s pensions, WIC programs which help poor women buy food
for their children, schools, attacks on teacher unions, the list goes on and on. See Wisconsin’s budget if you have any questions.
I am not advocating revolution, I am simply saying, we should fight back in this ongoing war on the middle class and the working poor.
I suggest you haven’t really notice the ongoing narrative. take a new look at what is really being said, by the 2012 presidential candidates
and the local governors, such as in Fla and Wisc. You will see what I see. the war already in full swing.
[/quote]
F: So there are those that don’t want to pay for some things that you think we should pay for. That is your attack on capitalism?
Yikes.
K: You seem to think things have no connection. There is clearly a connection. the cuts in fla case is meant to pay for tax cuts for
businesses.
TP: Rick Scott Proposes Cutting Annual Teacher Pay By $2,335 To Fund Corporate And Property Tax Breaks
Last month, Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) “unveiled his first budget proposal to make sweeping changes to state government by slashing billions in taxes and spending.” Although the budget — which would lead to thousands of layoffs and gut the state’s infrastructure and education spending — “was cheered by conservative activists and businesses…it provoked a lukewarm response from fellow Republicans in the state Capitol.”
In terms of taxes, Scott plans to “cut $1 billion in property taxes over two years and nearly $1.5 billion in corporate income taxes in the same time frame,” which would involve cutting the corporate income tax rate from 5.5 percent to 3 percent and phasing it out by 2018, among other things.
Of course, these tax breaks are not cheap and Florida is required to balance its budget. So in addition to slashing billions of dollars in Medicaid assistance to the poor, gutting the budget of the Department of Children and Families, and cutting the education budget by $4.8 billion over several years, Scott’s proposal would mean an average annual pay cut for Floridan teachers of $2,335:
Is a $2,335-a-year pay cut for the average teacher worth a $44.72 property tax savings for the average Florida homeowner with a homestead exemption? That’s a key question behind the math that Gov. Rick Scott’s administration is banking on for his pared-back school spending plan as the legislature gears up to begin its annual session Tuesday.
Scott proposes a K-12 budget for the coming year that is $1.75 billion less than the current education budget. About half of that reduction is because the federal government won’t be sending the $873 million stimulus for education that it sent last year.
K: this from think progress. Big business says jump, people like scott say how high. As they get their money from corporations and wealthy individuals
like the koch brothers, clearly big business is driving the political agenda in FLA and wisc. recall that the bank Bank of america and wells fargo, paid
no federal taxes last year and yet cleared billions in profits. Business/capitalist are in charge now.
Kropotkin
Jonquil does any of these posts have to do with capitalism?
Well spoken, Kropotkin. Another narrative is that of cooperacy, where people work together for the common good, all for one and one for all.
It’s a feel-good, fuzzy idea that no one can really disagree with. How does it work? What are some details? Distribution of food, shelter, land and labor. Some practical examples would be helpful.
The propaganda around capitalism is intense and pervasive. People are literally brainwashed into thinking it’s a good or successful system, in spite of the fact that it depends on brutal violence and oppression, and the fact that society is crumbling around us as the poor, working, and middle classes are destroyed along with the environment.
As Mark Twain said, “Denial ain’t a river in Egypt.” And all I see in the capitalist proponents is a huge amount of blinkered denial or blindness to the harms and evils that assail us every damm day, all due to capitalism morphed into a kind of flood-up economics where the money flows into the hands of greedy, self-interested kleptocrats and the rest of the population suffers and is left with the dregs.
Also, take a look at the way budgets are deliberately busted as the last bastions of wealth are looted, meaning state tax coffers in the interests of the privatization and deregulation of all public sector services, roads and highways, including education, the prison system, and of course all the utilities. And the truth is that such privatization never works the way it’s touted in that the private interests simply depend on state coffers to keep them running. The big caveat: watch where the money goes.
Every cooperative I’ve seen, learned about, or participated in has worked very well. It’s the energy of the collective that makes it work. I just can’t explain it for you. You really have to experience it for yourself.
From your personal experience - How many people were involved? What were they doing?
Something that may be wonderful for a few, a dozen, a hundred people may be hell for millions. Numbers matter.
They all work until they don’t work anymore. You can dissolve a soup kitchen or an art co-op. Art co-ops come and go with the wind. Disbanding a country is a little more troublesome.
Peter - personally, I support the Arts - I don’t support the NEA. I do support the idea of Planned parenthood (I don’t donate money) - I don’t support government funding of it. I don’t support government funding of NPR - they get almost no government money now, and they’re doing just fine. If the CPB lost their government money, we could only hope that it would mean that they no longer would broadcast Yanni concerts, or Moody Blues reunions or Lawrence Welk reruns. The decision is theirs - or better, their viewers’. So what? I hold these positions not to “defend” capitalism. I just don’t think we should spend tax money on it. You talk as if everyone who disagrees with you on the smallest detail is some kind of ruthless robber baron. I assure you, Peter, you made more money than I did this week.
Whatever happens in Florida, it’s the opening salvo in a budget battle. Surely we can condemn capitalism much more effectively than by rehashing Miami Herald headlines.
jonquil -
Brutal violence and oppression? You just throw that out, as if anyone even knows what you are talking about?
What in God’s name are you comparing this to?
I wish I only had to pay for the roads I use. I don’t know what you are talking about, but it’s a nice story. Let’s hope reality some day catches up to your imagination. And as I am childless, I wish that all education in the US was private. More money I could save. I don’t know what planet you’re talking about, but it sounds better than Earth.