I don’t exactly agree with Agent Smith, if it were up to me I’d change this diatribe to:
You can escape reason in denial, however there is no evasion of values, because we all know that without values there are no reasons to exist. It is values that connect us, values that pull us, that guide us, that drive us, that define us, it is value that binds us.
To me, this becomes pristine to the root of humanity are human values. Values have shaped our world by leading to the undeniable atleration of the human experience for all. It is the definitive force behind all human actions and as such the weight of the world is on this one simple concept; values. A value is the reason behind every single event in the history of the human race yet I find that this topic has been touched rather lightly in the field of philosophy for the most part given the massive impact values have on everything that we can have an impact on; essentially it is the core of power of the entire human race.
So with that, shouldn’t we not analyze this subject deeply? Before I go on I would like to ask, where do our values come from? Where are they going? Why do we have them?
i think values are at their core based in aesthetic judgments - notions concerning what is and isn’t desirable arising from what feels correct or good, or projects a satisfying appearence - a lot of that is biologically determined, some of it is just individual whimsey. we then rationalize those more reflexive judgments and create moral or ethical principles out of them, which is a more socially determined process, but again, individual whimsey plays a role there as well.
ultimately, values are matters of taste and preference intellectualized.
Hmm… the aesthetic as a base. I’m not so sure that this is all inclusive. Individual “whimsey” is rather vague. Unless, aesthetic encompasses the conceptual and not the physical so much. Lets look at some values possibly at their base forms:
What do people think of me (My reputation) how does it drive me?
Sex
For most of us here: Knowledge. Why do we value knowledge? Because of? Is that really aesthetic? Or on a whim?
The machine computer world would not be able to whimsically on its own come up with a value system unless it was given data containing human nature’s experiences with it. The smith virus was purposeful not value laden. Neither was Neo’s. The matter that was dialectically posed had to do with a manner of existence by means of empirically based programmed events vs. the freedom of choice producing relatively random events.
Values superimpose over the decisions made via random choices a basis whereby the decisions are questioned as to their moral content. It is an element within society’s machine stating how and in what way individuals should or must conduct themselves and confines the members to parameters for the purpose of maintaining sane and intelligent living relations.
I think value and purpose both imply one another. I think Value comes first, and then Purpose, the purpose pretty much always being to protect or create more value (think of any goal you’ve ever had, any purpose you ever felt, and see if any of them don’t fit that paradigm - they all probably do fit). So, the existence of Purpose is dependent on the existence of Value.
But that only shows how Purpose implies Value. I have not shown how it works the other way. I think, inherent in any value system, is a desire to protect or create more of those things that are valued (identical to purpose). You can’t really value something without having the desire to protect or create more of it. How could you say “I value x” but then watch carelessly as it whither away when you could have protected it? Or watch as more x becomes available but you just let it pass you by.
So, Purpose implies Value, but Value also necessitates Purpose.
This is the most speculative philosophy I’ve done in quite a while. I feel funny writing stuff like this.
We use knowledge to function in this world. When we ‘function’ we have an indentity. That’s why the the thought of losing what we have and what we know is frightening to the entity that is identified by it.
How much of that knowledge is created by the one who uses it? Now, as you ponder that question, you might proclaim some kind of ownership of your own precious knowledge and experiences and asign much value to it, probably due to the purpose of thought which is to protect itself and maintain itself … a kind of self centered and self sustained ‘value.’
Maybe because you don’t value it? Hey, not a put down, Hump. I myself can’t be fit into any value system because there’s no purpose for it. I have a hard time imagining anyone being forced into any kind of system. Other than for functional purposes only.
I agree that through our actions we can determine our values. Purpose is what we do to act out our values, thus values come first. Which is why my OP would prefer to get to the root cause as just saying purpose, because it’s not Grammatically correct it seems. Values create the purpose, thus the action. Thus why I disagree that it is purpose that pulls us, that guides us, that drives us, it is actually values that pull us guide us and drive us. Purpose is just a conceptual by product of value. But my case presently is that value is not directly going to result in a purpose. Being that, there are varying degrees of value, some of we could say detest or complacency is somewhat of a reflection of value as well, just on a negative scale or a unaffected or unimportant scale, or so. Of course we could have purpose to avoid things we hate, or even things we are complacent about if we value some sort of positive gain instead. Things can get muddled. Of course this is all vague examples of value leading to purpose.
But can we value purposelessness? Que Sera Sera. In turn, does that create a purpose to be complacent? I don’t define purpose as being such:
1pur·pose
noun \ˈpər-pəs
Definition of PURPOSE
1
a : something set up as an object or end to be attained : intention b : resolution, determination
2
: a subject under discussion or an action in course of execution
You value what you have come to know is good for you within a society which has created you for the sole purpose of maintaining the status quo. Just like neo experienced in the machine world before his liberation. And just like you are experiencing now.
Society does not think, society has people that think that are members of society. With this everyone who lives being a member of society would think the thoughts of society, would they not? If so I’m not aware what the thoughts of society even are, if you have some generalization in mind.