The Epistemic Communication Dilemma Why Infinite Consequences Require Perfect Communication My Personal Argument

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

But ‘we’ were not previously discussing ‘ideas’. ‘We’ were discussing ‘a claim’, and what I call ‘the proof’ for ‘that claim’.

Everything that you think is an idea. So literally all we are doing is discussing ideas. Your claims and proofs are ideas. Ideas and concepts are the broader terms that all thought falls under. Unless you don’t think. But I would say that not thinking is impossible, so everything you have written here, has at one time been thought by you, which makes everything we have discussed, ideas.

Okay.

‘we’ are discussing ideas only.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

So, how exactly does ‘your argument’ here go “acltalls”. you have NOT yet presented ‘an argument’ for this, you however have made ‘this claim’ only. So, please write ‘your argument’ down now, and ‘we’ can focus solely on ‘that’, for a while, if you really want to.

Acltalls:

There is literally no point

So, you can make ‘a claim’, but, to you, there is, literally, no point in making ‘an argument’ for ‘your claim’ here.

Okay.

@Acltalls

because I have given my argument multiple times, but you are so captured by your own views that you cannot see at all what I am saying.

Okay.

@Acltalls

You think that my arguing against your claim that the universe is infinite is somehow me stating for a fact that something has not been proven to someone else.

Okay.

@Acltalls

I am making the argument that infinity cannot be known.

LOL

If this is what you really want to believe is absolutely true here, then okay.

@Acltalls

The point of the argument is to establish this claim that I am making.

LOL

Okay.

@Acltalls

And no there is no superiority complex needed to say that infinity may not be possible. I do not believe in individual truths. It is either true or it is not and therefore it applies to everyone.

Okay.

So, is infinity possible or not, to you and everyone?

@Acltalls

Every single person that makes an argument for the absolute nature of something is making a claim that it functions a certain way for everyone. You have done the exact same thing, unless you think that your truth only applies to you and therefore the universe is only infinite to you, but then why would you argue that I or others have not seen your irrefutable proof if only your view matters? (This is another rhetorical question)

And, another Truly absolutely idiotic and absurd one, as well.

@Acltalls

That’s because you are not just caring about your truth, you want others to agree with you.

Again, you cannot disagree, logically, with what is Fact, proof, and Truth.

And, I certainly do not want anyone to agree with what is not a Fact, proof, and a Truth.

Why did you even begin to presume and believe that ‘I’ want you people to agree with ‘Me’?

@Acltalls

That is what we all want and to pretend otherwise is delusional.

LOL, LOL, LOL Talk about ‘delusional’ alright.

@Acltalls

You wouldn’t spend anytime discussing these ideas or trying to prove any claim

But, once again, I am not trying to prove any claim. I am just showing ‘the proof’ for ‘the claim’.

If people are open, ready, and willing to see ‘the proof’ or not, is of no real concern to me.

In fact, when people cannot and do not see ‘the proof’, then this actually provides ‘proof’ for another claim of mine. So, either way works perfectly, for me.

@Acltalls

if you were not trying to convince others of such a thing,

I have said it previously, and I will said it again, I do not want to convince anyone of anything, so I am certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Now, as I have noted previously, ‘the Truth’ speaks for Itself. If people are open and honest enough to recognise and see the actual Truth of things, then that is something else. I have also previously pointed out when, how, and why people are not yet ready and open enough to recognise, see, understand, and KNOW the actual Truths in LIfe. I have also noted what stops and prevents them from being open and ready for the Truth of things. I have explained the very things that stops and prevents them from also coming to KNOW the Truths too.

@Acltalls

unless you just haven’t thought about that yet,

Again, this one introduces the most insane and idiotic suggestions, which also have absolutely nothing at all to do with anything thing.

@Acltalls

which as you have shown, you do not think about a great many of things and are very lacking in overall philosophical knowledge.

Once more, if this is what you really want to believe here, and express, then this is perfectly fine and okay with me.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

Has finity been proven to you?

Yes, I believe that the finite exists, but I would not claim that the universe is finite just because I believe that that one exists.

Okay. So, Infinity has not yet been proven to you, although infinity exists and the proof for it has already been shown and presented to you, right?

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

This is another one of ‘your beyond absurdism’ claims that you keep making in this thread.

There is no absurdism,

If this is what you believe is absolutely true, then okay.

@Acltalls

you have said that space is less infinite due to objects,

Are they the exact words that I have said?

@Acltalls

which is not what being infinite is and would make the universe not infinite.

If this is what you really want to believe here, then okay.

But, I have pointed out other things, which you must of missed or misunderstood if this is what you see and believe here.

@Acltalls

You stated as such here:

@anew1

@Acltalls

Is there an infinite amount of space?

Of course not.

Obviously there are physical objects. Which, obviously, reduces the amount of ‘space’, clearly.

Just because I stated ‘as such’, this never means that you comprehended and understood what was meant. And, you obviously still have not.

@Acltalls

So you do not think that space is infinite by your own statement.

I have NEVER even thought it, let alone said or implied it anywhere.

And, I KNOW that ‘space’, itself, is not infinite and because it is not now could never have been nor ever could be.

@Acltalls

So why would I think so either if you do not?

1. you are absolutely free to think absolutely whatever you like.
2. I have NEVER EVER wanted you to think something that is obviously NOT true is true.

Why are you AGAIN going down some completely off topic and absolutely nothing I have said path for exactly?

@Acltalls

You are contradicting yourself here because you do not actually know what you are talking about,

LOL, LOL, LOL

Imagine being as STUPID as this one is here.

it AGAIN introduces things that I have absolutely NEVER EVER said, implied, nor even thought, but then LOL uses its own INTRODUCED ideas to argue against or claim that ‘they’ make ‘my claim’ contradictory.

Are you STUPID and do not know what you are doing here now, or are you just ‘trying to’ trick, fool, and deceive the readers here.

Once again, I have NEVER EVER said that ‘space’ is infinite. I have, INSTEAD, said and claimed that the Universe, Itself, if infinite, and eterna. The Unvierse, do not forget, at the fundamental level is made up of ‘space’ and ‘matter’.

@Acltalls

because all of your ideas stem from a closed mind.

LOL, LOL, LOL

So, ‘this one’ here is ‘trying to’ claim;

‘I’ am contradicting “myself” BECAUSE ‘I’ do not actually know what ‘I’ am talking about BECAUSE absolutely ALL of ‘my ideas’ STEM from a ‘closed mind’.

‘I’ wonder if ‘you’ realise just how STUPID ‘you’ coming across here.

@Acltalls

You cannot understand others if you know nothing about them, which is what happens when you don’t not read any philosophy.

AGAIN, what has absolutely ANY of this got to do with the Fact that I claim the Universe is infinite BECAUSE ‘the proof’ shows that It IS?

@Acltalls

@anew1

But, ‘the proof’ that the Universe is infinite is in the Fact that ‘space’ only stops or ends at and with a physical object.

If distance is space, then whether space stops at an object is entirely relative to which object you base that off of.

But ‘space’ always stops or ends at ‘an object’. Therefore, there is NO ‘whether’ ‘space’ stops at ‘an object’. ‘Space’ ALWAYS stops at objects.

And, also CONTRADICTORY to your other claim here, ‘space’ stopping at objects is absolutely NOT entirely relative to ‘which object’ I or you base that off of AT ALL.

Again, you really do say and claim some of the most weirdest and absurd things sometimes.

@Acltalls

Does the distance from one object change because there is another object in the way?

OF COURSE, when the objects move away from or closer to each other, OBVIOUSLY.

@Acltalls

No it does not,

AGAIN, you ask a question, and then answer it, and again you answer it as though ‘your answer’ is the one and only true and correct one. Which, again, is absolutely hilarious to watch you continually do.

Here is a suggestion for you, INSTEAD of asking questions here, which you are just going to answer “yourself” anyway, why do you not just write ‘the claim’, itself, which you believe to be the absolutely truth?

Now, once more, OBVIOUSLY when objects move closer to or away from each other, then ‘the distance’ changes. Again, the ‘space’ between the objects changes in lentgh, or distance.

What made you even believe that when the length between objects change ‘the distance’ does not?

@Acltalls

so in this way,

There is NO ‘this way’ BECAUSE ‘your way’ here is IDIOTIC and NONSENSICAL.

Even your words, “in the way” is ILLOGICAL and NONSENSICAL. What do you even mean by, “there is another object, in the way”, exactly?

“In the why” of ‘what’, exactly?

@Acltalls

distance would have to be infinite by your logic and could not be stopped by objects,

you have gone COMPLETELY INSANE here now.

Here you are ‘trying to’ claim that SOMEHOW ‘the distance’ HAS TO BE INFINITE, and LOL if ‘an object’ laughably got “in the way”.

Do you have absolutely any idea or clue as to just how NONSENSICAL you are being here?

And, LOL worse still ‘you’ claim that ‘these words’ of yours are ‘my logic’. you make me laugh “acltalls”.

you also are ‘trying to’ claim now that ‘space’ cannot be stopped ‘by objects’, which is even MORE INSANE.

@Acltalls

therefore making this ‘fact’ that you claim,

Once again, you INTRODUCE things, which, besides being BEYOND ABSURDITY, you also ‘try to’ claim that ‘they’ have something to do ‘with me’ or ‘with my words’. Which, again, is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD.

The only one you’re really arguing against here is “your” ‘self’.

Just so it is absolutely clear here ‘that’, which you introduced, is NOT ‘my claim’ AT ALL.

@Acltalls

completely false because it is entirely relative and lacks any form of absoluteness.

What you just said and claimed here is ‘completely false’ for the simple fact that it is all of your own made up ABSURDITY.

@Acltalls

Your proof relies on this fact, and due to this fact being untrue, your proof is no longer justified.

LOL See how again, like I have previously stated, ‘these people’ will ‘try’ to twist words and definitions around and use in them ‘a way’ so that somehow hopefully ‘they’ will back up and support their already well-maintained, strongly held beliefs of theirs.

Again, you INTRODUCED something of your own making, showed how Truly IDIOTIC ‘it’ is, and then claimed, rightly so, that ‘it’ is not justified. Which I TOTALLY AGREE WITH.

And, considering that ‘it’ had absolutely nothing at all to do with anything that I have said, what happened and occurred is ALL of your own making.

@Acltalls

Are you going to engage with this or just say that I am misinterpreting you?

1. I have already engaged with it.

2. I am still going to say that you are misinterpreting ‘my words’.

3. But, it appears you might have already KNOWN this anyway, right?

   @Acltalls

   Because for some reason, instead of actually engaging with anything I say most of the time, you just keep saying that you are misunderstood.

LOL BECAUSE you HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD.

@Acltalls

Actually engage with my argument and find where I am wrong rather than just saying nuh uh to it.

AGAIN, I HAVE ALREADY DONE THIS.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Okay. So, Infinity has not yet been proven to you, although infinity exists and the proof for it has already been shown and presented to you, right?

If you understood basic logic, then you would know that just showing someone a proof does not on it’s own demonstrate the validity of that proof. A proof is not a proven argument. A proof is actually just an argument that you can then see if it can be proven or not, but you would know the definition of a proof if you even knew introductory logic, but you do not because you refuse to educate yourself. You have proven nothing just by showing me proofs. They are not substantiated on their own, they are merely statements if you do not justify them with valid reasons, and so far, besides asking me questions, you have yet to demonstrate how infinity is actually possible beyond claiming that it is. I have argued that the very notion of infinity comes from our grasp of the finite, therefore meaning that we do not actually know for a fact that there is such a thing as infinity. Using this as the basis for my claim, I then claim that I cannot with certainty claim that anything can be infinite, therefore, I completely disagree with the statement that the universe as a fact is infinite because I do not agree with anything that cannot be proven with certainty. Can you engage with these points? Or will you continue to pretend like I have not made an argument?

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Are they the exact words that I have said?

Yes they are as shown here:

@anew1

@Acltalls

Is there an infinite amount of space?

Of course not.

Obviously there are physical objects. Which, obviously, reduces the amount of ‘space’, clearly.

You have stated that there is not an infinite amount of space, which is what I have said you have said.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Now, once more, OBVIOUSLY when objects move closer to or away from each other, then ‘the distance’ changes. Again, the ‘space’ between the objects changes in lentgh, or distance.

I am not talking about objects moving or changing distance here. I am asking if the distance changes just because there is an object between another object. For example, lets say an arbitrary distance like object 1 is at 1 foot, then object 2 is at 10 feet, and object 3 is at 5 feet. Does the distance betwen object 1 and 2 change just because of object 3? Does this make sense to you or no?

[anew1]

@Acltalls

@anew1

Are they the exact words that I have said?

Yes they are as shown here:

@anew1

@Acltalls

Is there an infinite amount of space?

Of course not.

Obviously there are physical objects. Which, obviously, reduces the amount of ‘space’, clearly.

You have stated that there is not an infinite amount of space, which is what I have said you have said.

Okay, is there any issue here?

If yes, then what do you perceive it to be, exactly?

@Acltalls

@anew1

Now, once more, OBVIOUSLY when objects move closer to or away from each other, then ‘the distance’ changes. Again, the ‘space’ between the objects changes in lentgh, or distance.

I am not talking about objects moving or changing distance here. I am asking if the distance changes just because there is an object between another object.

you are asking if the distance of ‘WHAT’ exactly changes?

And, how can there be a so-called 'object between another object"? The word ‘between’ means or refers to being in between or within two or more things.

@Acltalls

For example, lets say an arbitrary distance like object 1 is at 1 foot,

From ‘WHAT’, exactly?

WHAT is ‘object 1’, one foot AWAY FROM?

@Acltalls

then object 2 is at 10 feet, and object 3 is at 5 feet.

AGAIN, from ‘WHAT’ exactly?

It is absolutely NONSENSICAL to ‘try to’ claim that any or some thing is ‘a distance’.

@Acltalls

Does the distance betwen object 1 and 2 change just because of object 3?

This question is ALSO ABSOLUTELY NONSENSICAL and ILLOGICAL.

Look “acltalls” you can ‘try’ your absolutely hardest to twist and distort ‘my words’ in absolutely any way you like, but these things that YOU keep INTRODUCING here have, again, absolutely nothing at all to do with what I have actually said, stated, and written here.

@Acltalls

Does this make sense to you or no?

The answer is a resounding ‘No’.

LOL If object 1 is ‘a distance’, does adding another object change ‘the distance’?

LOL Who, exactly, are you ‘trying to’ fool and deceive here, “acltalls”?

AGAIN, The Universe IS infinite because of how the two fundamental things that make up the Universe work and/or co-exist together.

I have provided ‘the proof’ already.

But, obviously, only those who want to learn, understand, and know the actual Truth can and will see it.

[greenfuse]

@anew1

I have provided ‘the proof’ already.

You may well have provided ‘the proof’, but you certainly haven’t provided the proof.

[greenfuse]

@anew1

This question is ALSO ABSOLUTELY NONSENSICAL and ILLOGICAL.

Look “acltalls” you can ‘try’ your absolutely hardest to twist and distort ‘my words’ in absolutely any way you like, but these things that YOU keep INTRODUCING here have, again, absolutely nothing at all to do with what I have actually said, stated, and written here.

What a volatile reaction to a question! He asked a question. He did not twist and distort your words. If you answer the question, which is a clarifying question by the way, then he can move on to the next step in what he is trying to show you. Your answer to this question can be whatever you consider the truth here.

[anew1]

@greenfuse

@anew1

I have provided ‘the proof’ already.

You may well have provided ‘the proof’, but you certainly haven’t provided the proof.

If this is what you want to believe is the absolute truth, then okay.

But, what is the difference between ‘the proof’ and the proof, to you, exactly?

Not that you will even answer and clarify.

[anew1]

@greenfuse

@anew1

This question is ALSO ABSOLUTELY NONSENSICAL and ILLOGICAL.

Look “acltalls” you can ‘try’ your absolutely hardest to twist and distort ‘my words’ in absolutely any way you like, but these things that YOU keep INTRODUCING here have, again, absolutely nothing at all to do with what I have actually said, stated, and written here.

What a volatile reaction to a question!

Once more, for those who cannot understand. The question was and still is an absolutely nonsensical and illogical question.

What a volatile reaction you just presented here “greenfuse”.

@greenfuse

He asked a question.

I KNOW. And, once more, it was a very nonsensical and illogical one at that.

@greenfuse

He did not twist and distort your words.

And you KNOW this with absolute certainty how, exactly?

@greenfuse

If you answer the question, which is a clarifying question by the way, then he can move on to the next step in what he is trying to show you.

But, it cannot be answer Accurately and Correctly, OBVIOUSLY.

However, if you believe it can be answered, then you answer the question.

@greenfuse

then he can move on to the next step in what he is trying to show you.

LOL, imagine believing that ‘that question’, which has absolutely nothing at all to do ‘with me’ nor ‘with my words’, is a question that could be answered sensibly or logically.

@greenfuse

Your answer to this question can be whatever you consider the truth here.

So can yours, so why do you not answer it? That is; if you can.

[anew1]

@Acltalls

Does the distance betwen object 1 and 2 change just because of object 3?

Just about ANYONE can look at this question and see how ABSOLUTELY ILLOGICAL and NONSENSICAL it is. Except, of course, for people like “greenfuse” and its ilk.

LOL Imagine that ‘that question’ could be answered truthfully, or at all really.

Even “acltalls” could NOT answer that question properly and Correctly.

[anew1]

Again, the Universe, Itself, is infinite, and the proof shows how and why.

[greenfuse]

@anew1

Once more, for those who cannot understand. The question was and still is an absolutely nonsensical and illogical question.

So, you opted not to ask a clarifying question. And somehow a question has twisted and distorted your position. How did it distort and twist your position if it had nothing to do with what you said? It couldn’t do that. And since you considered it nonsense, how could you know that it distorted your views if it did not make any sense to you?

The only possible way it might affect your position is if it shows a problem with your position.

[greenfuse]

@anew1

Again, the Universe, Itself, is infinite, and the proof shows how and why.A

Ah, this time it is the proof without citation marks. I wonder what changed about it the proof, such that it no longer needs citation marks. He hasn’t added to the proof.

[Acltalls]

@anew1

This question is ALSO ABSOLUTELY NONSENSICAL and ILLOGICAL.

Look “acltalls” you can ‘try’ your absolutely hardest to twist and distort ‘my words’ in absolutely any way you like, but these things that YOU keep INTRODUCING here have, again, absolutely nothing at all to do with what I have actually said, stated, and written here.

Clearly, you have no idea what an example is or apparently what most words mean because the example I have given is so simple that a young child could understand it, but instead you take each part of an example and analyze it like they are separate parts. The entire example needs to be considered for it to make sense. I literally described object 1 being 9 feet away from object 3 in the example. I asked a simple question, but clearly your ability to understand words and their basic meaning does not exist, otherwise this incredibly simple example would not cause such confusion. You are confused by such a simple thing. The what that you are asking about is literally explained in the example. The what are the objects that function as just variables for the sake of showing an example of how distance functions between objects. You genuinely cannot understand something this simple and so why do you try to assert knowing the truth of the universe when a simple example is beyond your comprehension?

[Acltalls]

@anew1

Just about ANYONE can look at this question and see how ABSOLUTELY ILLOGICAL and NONSENSICAL it is. Except, of course, for people like “greenfuse” and its ilk.

LOL Imagine that ‘that question’ could be answered truthfully, or at all really.

Even “acltalls” could NOT answer that question properly and Correctly.

Actually the answer is very simple, the answer is no. Object 3 being inbetween object 1 and 2 does not change the fact that there is 9 feet of distance between them. So you literally are genuinely unable to understand basic things. This is not because it is an illogical and nonsensical question, this is because you have never questioned whether or not it is you that struggles to understand things. Have you never questioned whether or not your mind is accurately representing information to you? Have you never wondered if you were being deceived? Because when you reference the Cartesian view of I think therefore I am, you quite literally reference a person that asked those questions. You should take some time to figure out why you cannot understand a basic question instead of flipping out at it just because you cannot understand it. It is not illogical or nonsensical just because it does not make sense to you. It is because of how your brain works and so it can be very frustrating when something doesn’t immediately make sense. I know this because I have a couple of autistic friends who struggle with the same problem. One of them literally cannot read and he gets very frustrated because of it and calls it stupid, but it is not stupid just because he cannot do it. The same applies to you. Your mind is not infallible and you do not understand everything. And everything you do not understand is not illogical or nonsensical just because you are too arrogant or unhumble to admit that you may not understanding something due to your lacking mental capacity rather than someone else not making sense. It clearly makes sense to other people and not just because they are pretending it does or because they are ideologically captured in some way. It makes sense to them because they are not autistic, which is why you should get that checked out so that way you can work on figuring out where your problem areas are for understanding things because you struggle with a basic example that a child could understand.