Imagine BELIEVING, ABSOLUTELY, that what is NOT even logically possible, let alone physically possible, is what is the irrefutable truth.
As for being curious anyone can read what you are just re-repeating.
LOL. Although you believe, absolutely, that is the irrefutable truth.
A typical response from one who cannot back up and support their claim, and who also cannot counter nor refute what the other claims.
See, how it expresses what is believes to be absolutely true, and then responds to it, just to make sure that there is ‘confirmation bias’.
Some can clearly see the projection here.
Imagine believing absolutely that the Universe began, is finite, and is expanding that the only way you could find ‘a way’ to back up and support this belief of yours is by claiming the whole entire Universe, Itself, is like a balloon, and to explain this you have to make up and say that ‘space’, laughably, curves back on itself. And then, LOL, call or believe that that is ‘modern knowledge’.
Well, you OBVIOUSLY have to assert ‘space’ has an ‘ending’ otherwise how could it expand, just like you little balloon analogy.
Really?
If yes, then explain what ‘curved space’ entails, exactly?
LOL NO explanation provided for your obviously unsubstantiate claim.
Just another attempt at ridicule and an attack ‘of me’.
ONCE MORE, of course. ‘I’ am encased in certainty. When one already has ‘the proof’, then they are obviously encased in and with certainty.
What do you believe I am ignorant of here, exactly, “greenfuse”?
See how AGAIN it twists and distorts ‘my words’, and then LAUGHABLY ‘tries to’ use its own DISTORTED version lagainst me’. What is Truly funny is that it believes, absolutely, that ‘that’ will work somehow.
AND, you OBVIOUSLY have NOT engaged with the original idea here.
Look “greenfuse” you will NOT just answer, 'What is on every “side” of an object?" BECAUSE you KNOW you will contradict ‘your beliefs’ and thus “yourself”.
LOL So ‘this’ only supports ‘my claim’ further.
LOL The first few words explains EVERYTHING here.
And, again, only further supports and backs up ‘my claim’ MORE.
The Fact that you are absolutely FROZEN by fear to just answer ‘my question’ proves further that you cannot counter nor refute ‘my claim’ AT ALL.
LOL This is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS, especially coming from ‘the one’ who the only thing it is doing is just re-repeating what it has read and/or heard, while not being able to explain in any way how what it believes to be absolutely true could even just be possible, let alone is actually true.
Also, what you said here coming from ‘the one’ who NEVER enquired at all into ‘my claim’ and ‘the proof’ that I presented. you “greenfuse” are EXACTLY LIKE those who believed absolutely that the sun revolves around the earth, solely because they also just believed what they read and heard, and so never made any enquiry at all into ‘the claim’ that the earth revolves around the sun. EXACTLY like your “greenfuse” ‘they’ just BELEIVED ABSOLUTELY what they were TOLD TO BELIEVE.
AND, ‘your’ continual attacking ‘of me’ are exactly things that people like ‘you’ attempt. Because they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
LOL, LOL, LOL
Absolutely ANY one can look through ALL of ‘my writings’ here and there is NOT a single time I have used ANYONE’S name as support for ‘my ideas nor claims’, NOR referenced ANYONE to use thier knowledge.
I am STRICTLY HERE on MY OWN, ONLY. I DO NOT and WILL NOT USE ABSOLUTELY ANYONE to help Me, HERE.
My claims and ‘the proof’ I use stand on their own.
And, LOL what you just said and wrote, after you just USED other people, and referenced them and their knowledge, makes what you now just say and claim even MORE RIDICULOUS
Again, you are Wrong. What you claimed is False.
If someone disagrees with me is NOT because of indoctrination. If someone believes they know the truth, when they do NOT, then this is indoctrination.
you really do need more reading comprehension lessons here “greenfuse”.
Okay.
This should prove ‘your claims’ here True and Right, and/or provide more “weight” for what you believe is absolutely true here.
I have absolutely NO idea NOR clue what this here means nor is referring to.
LOL, LOL, LOL
So, I show ‘my claims’ and ‘the proof’, which NO even begins to consider. As can be clearly seen and proved by their absolute inability to answer 'What surrounds ALL objects?" Which are OBVIOUSLY ‘new’ to some here if not all here.
But, yet it is ‘me’ who is ‘now’, supposedly, NOT curious to, clearly, “new” ideas to me.
LOL you are just re-repeating the ideas and theories that have been around for ages.
And, let ‘us’ not forget that although you believe those OLD ideas as being absolutely true, then STILL remain just OLD theories only.
Again, it INTRODUCES something that is not even remotely true, and then USES ‘that’, laughably, as though it is helping its case here.
This is clearly idiotic. As can be seen by its OBVIOUS Inaccurate presumed claims.
So, AGAIN, if absolutely any one would like to have a Truly Open discussion here. And one where the actual irrefutable Truth could be and will be concluded, then let ‘us’ begin.
For all the others, feel free to keep presuming and believing whatever ‘you’ ‘now’ ARE.
No, you didn’t or you could not possibly have said
Imagine believing ‘space’ just ends
That shows you are still in the Euclidian model.
I am repeating a bit here, you’re right. You know why? It’s realizing how little you follow your own steps. You’re not open or curious at all.
Well, it’s same type of thing you’ve said time and again. Good to know you finally realize you can’t back up your claims.
You have a closed mind. It is not possible in your mind that we could know more even though you say yourself that we have gained more knowledge through time. You are told that there have been advances in cosmology since Galileo and that this is relevant to the issue of infinite space and shows problems with your proof. Are you open? No. Do you engage with the ideas? No. It must be indoctrination. I’ve given you some links to information that could give you the basis to decide for yourself if there is merit in these ideas about the curvature of space and how this means that your proof doesn’t hold as a proof. Perhaps you would end up disagreeing. But you just label anything that doesn’t agree with you as indoctrination, False, Wrong and so on.
You are the definition of a closed mind.
This is what is called a fallacy of incredulity.
You lack basic logic skills and you have no interest in exploring ideas built up by the successors of Galileo. Exactly like Galileo they faced resistence by people based on habit and folk wisdom common sense. You are behaving exactly like the people who dismissed Galileo in their thinking. Yes, the Church went beyond this into action. You won’t do that and you can’t do that. But the closed mind habit based thinking is exactly the same. Shame on you for being so pompous and chiding everyong for not being open when it is you who have the closed mind. And no amount of LOLs and incredulilty and demands for us to produce all the things you’ve said and done that you’ve forgotten will make this go away.
You are opting to be a toxic little person, judging and condescending. That’s not your essence, but it’s what you choose to be.
Fallacy of incredulity. And incredulity and pointing to what they thought was obvious was exactly what most people disbelieving Galileo relied on. You are acting exactly like them. Exactly.
This shows that you clearly believe, absolutely, that ‘space’ just ends.
The issue you are having here is that you, ‘cannot for the life of you’, as some might say, imagine HOW, exactly.
Thus, you are stuck with this belief of yours that you have no way of explaining nor understanding at all.
LOL you are being like the ones who believed the sun revolves around the earth.
The one who is explaining and showing how it is actually the earth revolves around the sun and who is informing you that the reason you are not understanding here and not seeing the proof is because of your belief, which is stopping you from being open and curious, and this is why you are not understanding the actual Truth and Fact here. you again then present the OLD view and belief and, then laughably claim, “you’re not open or curious at all”, to the very one showing and explaining the proof and Fact.
But, PLEASE keep on re-repeating the OLD unverified theories again and again, while believing, absolutely, that they are what is true and right, while also, LOL, claiming that it is ‘I’ who is not open and curious here.
The more you keep repeating things like this, for me, here, the better this is ‘for me’.
But, I HAVE backed up ‘my claims’. There IS ‘space’ surrounding all objects.
LOL you claim ‘space’ JUST STOPS and ENDS.
Imagine not being able to ‘see’ just how Truly IDIOTIC and RIDICULOUS this claim is.
Imagine believing, absolutely, that if one went out from earth that they would eventually end up back on earth. So,
how long will it take ‘voyager 1’ to arrive back on earth?
Which way is it turning, from its perspective, left, right, upwards, or downwards, exactly? After all, you believe and claim that it would have to be turning in a circle although it might well not be a recognisable circle.
Now, if anyone else would like to ‘try to’ fight for the belief that the Universe. To prove that what “greenfuse” is purporting to be the truth here ‘we’ can bring this ‘closer to home’, as some call it for you and I will provide examples in relation to earth, so that it is not so hard and complex for you to consider and imagine.
Imagine believing that ‘space’ does not surround objects, and therefore to them/that one this, laughably, means I have not backed up ‘my claim’ that ‘space’ surrounds objects.
Imagine presenting what one believes is absolutely true in this tiny little unsupported sentences and claims, and that LOL that is is all that is needed here, especially in a philosophy forum.
So, ‘you’, “greenfuse”, believe, absolutely, and claim that ‘I’ have a so-called “closed mind”.
Now, what even is a ‘mind’, to you, exactly?
And, how can one of them, which you claim ‘I’ and ‘you’ have, become ‘closed’, exactly?
If you do not explain in enough detail so that everyone here can understand fully, then besides your own ‘current’ belief, why do you assume that ‘your claim’ here is what is absolutely true and right here?
Now, what ‘the readers’ will very clearly come to see is that absolutely nothing at all will be provided to back up and support your Truly ridiculous and absurd belief and claim here.
See, how after this one ‘tries to’ claim that ‘I’ so-call “mind read”, while also claiming that that is a very negative thing to do it has now, once more, done what it calls “mind reading” and not just “mind reading” but is, laughably, ‘trying to’ TELL you readers what is IN ‘my’ so-called “mind”, exactly.
LOL it does not just believe that it can KNOW what is in “your mind” but TELLS ‘you’ what is IN “your mind” even AFTER ‘you’ have informed it that ‘that’ is NOT true.
“greenfuse” believes that it is so absolutely superior to others that it has some sort of ‘right’ to TELL you that if you are say you are thinking or not thinking some things, it can and will override this and TELL you what the actual truth is. LOL it actually believes it can TELL you what is and what is not possible in what it claims is “your OWN mind”.
And, you have been INFORMED that ‘theories’ are NOT actual advancements. Again, they are just what someone or some people have GUESSED MIGHT BE ‘the case’.
And, as absolutely anyone could ‘see’ how ‘the proof’ I have provided is irrefutable. Of course, if they are open and not closed due to ‘current’ beliefs or presumptions.
In regard to ‘what’, exactly?
LOL Again, it asks another a question, but TELLS them what the ONE and ONLY answer is.
I have tried to, but you have refused to.
you have also refused to engage with answering ‘my questions’ to you in regard to your belief that ‘my idea and claim’ could never ever even be a possibility.
If you believe things to be true, like you do, because you were indoctrinated to believe them, although no actual proof for them has been presented, then, of course, it must be indoctrination.
LOL Do you believe that you believe things to be true, which are not true or which have not yet been proven to be true, is just because you have solely chosen to, without any indoctrination from absolutely any thing at all?
I have already read it, and already found flaws, inconsistencies, and contradictions in them. Again, they stick out very clearly.
Would you like to engage in learning about and understanding more about these flaws?
By the way, ‘the proof’ that I have presented helps in explaining why that information, which again are just theories and thus guesses, are flawed.
Perhaps.
LOL So, once again, this one shows and proves that even when it is informed that ‘this’ is NOT the case, it still flat out refuses to accept it, and just continues to believe, ABSOLUTELY, what it was already believing was the absolute truth.
Okay.
Did you inform the readers here of how you define what a ‘mind’ is, exactly? And/or HOW the ‘mind’ you have could even be ‘closed’, exactly?
Again, if no, then why not?
But, I have explored them.
As I have explained to you, the flaws in them are very easy and simple to recognise and ‘see’. Even WHY those faults come to be WHERE they are is also already well understand and known by ‘Me’.
Would ‘you’ like to engage by discussing these things ‘with Me’?
Or, do you prefer to just sit with and stay what you ‘currently’ believe is the truth here?
What are you on about here? you are the one who is ALSO believing that the ‘current knowledge’ is the absolute truth here. I am NOT.
I am showing, with proof, exactly HOW the Universe IS infinite, and the very irrefutable reasons WHY It IS infinite.
LOL you are the one showing and proving that you are in the ‘church of science’ and whatever your “teachers” and “preachers” tell you, you just copy and follow it, without absolutely any questioning at all.
LOL you are believing the VERY OLD belief and claim, by copying and re-repeating the VERY OLD “In the beginning” scenerio. LOL As though it actually represents the Universe, Itself.
LOL If only you knew “greenfuse”. If only you knew.
LOL
Imagine believing that ‘you’ had ‘a mind’, and that all of these hundreds of ‘minds’ could have been closed. Also, imagine believing that “your mind” was not closed, and that it was only ever the “other one’s mind” that was closed. And, LOL, only closed when the other disagrees with what you were ‘currently’ believing was the only truth.
Okay. So, what ‘we’ have here is “greenfuse” believing, ABSOLUTELY, that ‘i’ have my OWN mind, and that ‘this mind’ is closed.
Which is absolutely considering that there is One and only One Mind, which is ALWAYS ABSOLUTELY OPEN, and cannot ever be closed.
But, the ‘very thing’ that it is actually referring to, and which can be completely closed, can be very clearly ‘seen’ and proved, by ‘the way’ these people have been speaking and writing here.
As I have been explaining, highlighting, and pointing out here.
Okay. If you really want to come to a publicly accessible philosophical forum, express what you believe is true, and make claims, but will not explain, nor elaborate or clarify things when you are specifically asked to, then that is perfectly fine with me.
If you cannot and will not ‘prove’ ‘your beliefs and claims’ here, then okay.
Okay. And do you believe that making this claim and speaking like this, you do not come across as one with a superiority complex and one who is not judging and condescending, “themself”?
If this is what you have really chosen to ‘see’, and believe is true, then okay.
The Universe is still infinite, because ‘space’ cannot end until it intersects with ‘matter’, and, if there is ‘matter’ surrounding all ‘space’, then that ‘matter’ has to be infinite outwards. ‘Space’ and ‘matter’ make up the Universe, Itself, so if both or either of ‘space’ and ‘matter’ goes on infinitely ‘outwards’, then this means, irrefutably, that the Universe is infinite.
Further proof for this is if ‘matter’ or ‘space’ does not go outwards infinitely, then it must stop or end at and with the ‘other one’, which MUST also be ‘infinite’. Or, again, if ‘finite’, ends with ‘the other’, and so on, forever or infinitely, again and always.
Is there anyone here that would like to engage with ‘this proof’ and have a discussion? Can absolutely anyone here counter or refute what I am claiming and showing here?
So, I am doing the ‘exact opposite’ of what this one is now ‘trying to’ claim, again to influence, manipulate, and deceive you readers here, but ‘this one’ cannot ‘see’ what the actual Truth is, again because it is absolutely BLINDED by what it believes is the ABSOLUTE truth here.
This one disbelieves that the Universe could not be the VERY OLD claim about beginning and expanding.
How about instead of ‘you’ talking ‘about me’, why do you NOT prove your claim is the absolute Truth? LOL you believe it is, so why not present ‘the proof’ that you have already?
Or, again, and LOL, are you just believing ‘it’ is the absolute truth because the cult members of the ‘cult’ that you are IN have told you - the Universe began, and It is expanding, only?
Nope. You don’t understand non-Euclidean geometry and are not curious. You didn’t engage with what was presented to you. You are acting precisely as the people reacted to Galileo.
You couldn’t understand the ideas presented. So, out come the strings of LOLs. Did you know you only call people ‘it’ when there is strong disagreement. I know what it means in your worldview to call people it, but ‘coincidentally’ it only arises when there is strong disagreement. Of course, this has nothing to do with how it sounds to most people. You couldn’t possibly be getting the anger you never feel out this way. No, impossible. (and yes, you didn’t use ‘it’ here, just remembered the pattern when noting the rise in LOLs here)
Yeah, that’s in what you quoted…huh? You’re pretty good with the quote function, but you don’t really seem to ever deal with the content of what you quote much.
I will, again, ask you to explain how ‘space’, itself, can just end.
How much more curious do you want me to be here?
How much more engaging do you want me to be in regards to your idea, claim, and theory here.
Obviously, ‘space’ goes outwards from earth. you claim that if you just kept moving in a straight line that you would, eventually, arrive back on earth. Now, I have asked you are few questions for clarification regarding this theory and belief of yours. Will you ever answer and clarify here.
The only one who is not engaging with the ideas and claims here is you. And, laughably, this is in regards to ‘your claims’ as well as ‘my claims’.
So, either begin, or just ‘try to’ “run away” and hide once more.
Yes I did. As can be very clearly seen by the questions I have been asking you, but which you obviously have not and will not answer.
It doesn’t just end. And every time you repeat this it shows you did not engage this time or the last time with ideas that are new to you. You have a closed mind, and I am starting to take Atla more seriously: you very well may not be responsible at all for denying all the obvious things you deny. I am slowly having my belief that people always choose to some degree to not learn about themselves or to stop learning about themselves and choose to not investigate the ego-dystonic. But it may well be true that I have been wrong about that and that you really have not the slightest idea what you are doing. That in a sense you are something between innocent and completely oblivious. However toxic your communication, I’d have to accept you are an object of pity: you know not what you do at all.
LOL Those OLD ideas have already been refuted and dismissed.
you have not yet understood my ideas presented.
The LOL’s come out because of the very things you believe and presume here.
LOL AGAIN.
Absolutely anyone can very clearly ‘see’ when ‘I’ call ‘you’ ‘it’.
LOL Even when ‘you’ or others agree ‘with me’ ‘you’ are still ‘its’ and ‘things’.
But, ONCE MORE, how does ‘this’ have absolutely any thing at all to do with ‘my claim’ that the Universe is infinite, and with ‘the proof’ that exists for HOW and WHY the Universe is irrefutably infinite, exactly?
LOL, LOL, LOL ONCE MORE, “greenfuse” KNOWS MORE about why another says and claims things than the other could ever possibly know. Well, according to “greenfuse” anyway.
Anyhow, could “greenfuse” ‘try’ any harder to deflect and detract here.
The claim STILL remains. The Universe is infinite. The proof STILL remains. ‘Space’ surrounds objects, and both ‘objects’ and ‘space’, together, HAVE TO create infinity. The Universe at the most fundamental level is made up of both ‘space’ and ‘matter’, coexisting together. Therefore, the Universe is not just infinite, spatially, but is also eternal, temporally.
This, again, is an unambiguous proven Fact, which NO one could refute.
But, instead of engaging with this idea, “greenfuse” MUCH PREFERS to attack ‘me’, as though somehow that will discredit ‘my claim’ here.
Again, it repeats “itself”, as though that will give its words more truth.
LOL Absolutely anyone could read back of ‘my writings’ and see how I still call those who agree with me ‘it’ as well as if ‘they’ slightly or strongly disagree. Talk about ‘trying’ anything to deflect and deceive here.
Once again, it ‘tries’ to deflect, deceive, and discredit.
If you say so.
Okay.
What WAS being discussed here is HOW the Universe is claimed to be infinite.
The reason WHY and HOW the Universe is actually infinite, although you obviously believe absolutely that It is not, I have already provided.
Would you like to deal with this content? Or, would you prefer to keep ‘looking at’ and just keep judging ‘me’ instead?
You’ve refuted non-Euclidian geometry and curved space-time. Will show me where or summarize the argument? Which thread did you refute these ideas in? How did you manage to refute something you don’t understand at all, since you keep asking or asserting that it means the universe just ends?
THEREFORE, ‘space’ goes on forever and infinitely.
‘Space’ is a part of the Universe, Itself.
So, the Universe is infinite, in size.
Thank you for the help here “greenfuse”.
But, ONCE AGAIN, the FLAWS in those VERY OLD and OUTDATED ideas and theories have already shown how they could not and do not work.
Okay. That is GREAT.
If only they knew.
LOL Coming from ‘the one’ who still does not yet know the proper and Correct answer to the question, ‘Who am ‘I’?’ while telling ‘the one’ who does KNOW ‘that answer’ that ‘It’ does not learn about “themself”.
Which is even funnier considering that ‘you’ still do not yet recognise and KNOW that words like, “themselves”, “myself”, and “yourself” are misnomers and oxymorons.
Which, ‘you’ would already KNOW if ‘you’ had learned and KNEW MORE about ‘you’ and thy ‘Self’.
While, to you, it could NEVER EVER ‘may well be true’ that, in fact, ‘I’ KNOW far more than ‘you’ could even imagine here, right?
Whatever ‘I’ do, or whatever ‘I’ am, to ‘this one’ is in the NEGATIVE, ALWAYS.
As can be very clearly seen and proved by just ‘looking back’ over its writings ‘about me’.
It is NEVER ‘the case’ that ‘it may well be true’ that JUST MAYBE ‘I’ could be right here or that ‘I’ could know more than it believes or that ‘I’ am even showing and presenting here.
But, it is ALWAYS ‘the case’ that ‘it may well be true’ that ‘I’ know less or are less capable.
Again, ‘my communication’ is always ‘toxic’.
It could NEVER EVER be ‘the case’ that others could have misunderstood what ‘I’ am saying and meaning. NO, it is ALWAYS ‘me’ who has ‘toxic communication’ or something else is Wrong ‘with me’.
Here, ‘you’ now make ANOTHER claim.
So, what is ‘it’, exactly, “greenfuse”, which you now claim I know, but really do not?
Again, what ‘we’ will ‘see’, for sure, is absolutely NO answer and clarification provided AT ALL here.
Nope. And that’s why you need to engage with these ideas which you have not if you are ever going to refute them. You don’t understand what curved space means in terms of boundless and finite vs. infinite. You show this every time. You do not understand the ideas and you cannot refute something if you haven’t engaged with it enough to understand it at all.
They have not been refuted. They are not old ideas, these are very recent ideas, especially if we are comparing them to Galileo’s ideas.