the evil of DRM, Patents and copyrights.

The problem with patents and copyrights.

on the surface both patents and copyrights seem like good ideas. Especially for something like hardware, examples:

Planes, engines, catapults, pulleys, computer processors.

The problem is as I’ll show with examples and commentary, with patents and copyrights for “hardware” or “software” (and everything in between), is that current copy protection and patents themselves are so restrictive that they prevent the evolution of new ideas from old ideas, the very basis of how we’ve gotten as far as we have.

First Example:

The wright brothers after their first flight spent the next seven years in litigation, fighting people who “were infringing on their patent”. (improving their idea!)

“Yet at the same time, it is only fair to note that in the next seven years, the Wrights did almost as much to set aviation back as they had done to bring it forward. Two elements were involved in this retrograde process. The first was their litigious nature, which caused them to sue anyone they suspected was infringing on their patent-and since virtually everyone in the business of flying was doing so, this meant a lot of legal action. The second factor was in their careful protection of their patent, they were not inclined to introduce changes into their basic aircraft design. They feared that doing so would imply that improvements could be made to their Flyer, and thus open avenues for others to evade their patent. They also possessed a considerable degree of self-satisfaction, sincerely believing that their Flyer was the best approach to flight. (This would be manifest later, when a long series of fatal accidents marred the Wright aircraft reputation, with the Wrights insisting that the problem lay in [what else?] “pilot error.” )” -1

patents a good way to protect your invention, or a good way to show how greedy you are?

This is what I’ll go over next.

While Patents sound good on paper, a good way to protect your “idea” from being sold by someone else, in reality they are used to create a monopoly and to hold back the evolutive process of continuing development of said processes. I mean think about an idea that’s patented, it’s not like the idea is SO unique that no one else would’ve ever come up with that idea, like for example – the crystal oscillator pressure sensor made by a company called Digiquartz. A very simple idea and well known, but the company was issued a patent, and was allowed 10+ years to reign a monopoly in the market of quartz pressure sensors. They could charge whatever they wanted, give crappy customer service, it didn’t matter, they had the market from their patent. - 2

Then we’ll jump into the future (maybe momentarily, depends on the momentum of my thoughts!) and discuss file formats.

next we’ll discuss the patented file format GIF.

GIF, uses a compression routine known as LZW. This was a patented routine by a company known as Unisys. Compuserve developers got a hold of the routine through a coding magazine published in the mid 80’s. They had no idea the software was patented. So over the next several years many software houses incorporated GIF into their programs reading and writing not knowing the coming storm.

In 94 Unisys entered into talks with compuserve to licensce the GIF file format. This sent shockwaves through the community, and the initial reaction was to dump all your GIF’s for other formats. Would Unisys pursue patent rights over all entities that used the LZW routine?

the answer is yes.

Now let’s imagine that, the patent talks never happened. LZW probably could’ve been improved upon to offer even better lossless compression. Unisys could’ve headed such efforts and been known for something truly great. But because they decided to take the “greed” route, they are known for nearly shutting down an image format.

Of course had they not done that, other great formats wouldn’t have been developed, like PNG.

The point though, when making software you could right 400,000 lines of code for your software project and chances are without even looking at a patented project, at least 30,000 lines are similar enough that patent courts could force the software to be re-written removing those 30,000 lines of code.

Now we’ll head into copyrights. Copyrights in and of themselves were a good idea, they gave you credit for your creation, and allowed others not to photocopy your works and re-sell them. all perfectly valid for the pre-digital age.

That age is gone. It’s now easy to share ALL information related copyrights, and the easier it becomes the more scared the industry that relies on releasing the same crap becomes.

Let’s say you buy a piece of software and you want to give it to a friend, who can’t afford it. with current copyright law (dictated by large corps like RIAA, Microsoft etc.) you would be breaking the law and subject to severe penalties. While this may not seem like a big deal, like “how will they find out I gave it to my friend?”. well by changing the way they distribute software and by changing software protections to become increasingly potent.

For example Windows XP – Registration scheme. In the past you had a choice wether to provide your name and address to a company. I mean we all know what they do with that right? sell it for marketing data, track us, etc. so who in their right mind would give away their personal information for free? well now you have to. and if you don’t it deactivates the product for you. Now think about that.

If you bought a new car brought it home, and a little reminder popped up in the corner of the radio telling you to register your car, would you pay attention to it? What if you didnt’ register your car and after the 30 days your car would no longer start?

Think that’s farfetched? not as much as you think. It won’t be long before cars with advanced operating systems become a reality. Do we want Draconian controls over that software?

Piracy. Is it a reality? no. very simply any money they report as “lost” is money that if the piracy didnt’ exist they wouldnt’ have had anyways. Do you think they would spend 50 dollars versus 10 for the pirated copy? no. The pirate enables those who can’t afford it the ability to listen, enjoy or watch something they otherwise would not have access to. Any corporation claiming money loss? why do we even listen? I mean it’s not like they are sieving money. Multi-billion dollar, multi-national corporations?

Now I’ll talk about the less obvious problems with copyrights. The lack of evolution.

Software evolution. remember my example with the wright bros plane? well software is much the same way, open source is currently evolving 10X the rate of closed source software. And this will be an exponential rate as more and more people become involved in open source. Closed source software is stagnant. only the people in the company can see the code because the code is considered a “trade secret”. Imagine if windows was open source? I imagine all the gaping security holes would’ve been plugged long ago, because the whole world would be able to see them. But because it is closed they leave the holes in.

Yes you read that right, Companies are intentionally leaving backdoors in their software.

DRM. Digital Rights Management.

One of the most ironic things about the DRM is that it is bandied about with terms like “fair-use”. Who determines what fair use is? not you the “owner” of the software (music, movie, game, etc.) you’ve purchased. The industry is pushing for a subscription plan that you pay them a monthly fee to use their software. And with the DRM they are able to track you even better. every piece of software you buy has your information stored in the header. You share it to your poor friend now, they go online the software tattles and your screwed.

but I think that the DRM will kill itself. Even if people don’t take immediate action, they will only be pushed so far when it comes to their money. I mean do you really want to lease everything from a large corporation? can you imagine having to pay a monthly maintence fee to listen to your iTunes songs? no? not too far away!

(for those of you wondering these maintenance fees would be on top of the fees to download the item for local use.)

what do you think?

  1. wingsoverkansas.com/history/ … asp?id=268

  2. recently Quartzonix has released a crystal pressure sensor to compete with Digiquartz, as DQ did no renew their patent. but, no one knows the Quartzonix name so regardless of wether they’ve improved upon the patent or offer better service it’s unlikely they’ll ever become a competitor to DQ.

and after the medicine companies invest hundreds of millions of dollars into your new cure for the common cold or cancer or whatever, would you would allow pirates to come in and steal their drug and manufacture it to sell to the masses leaving no profit to the drug manufacturer who put in the effort and investment in the first place?

that is the fastest way to completely stop medical research…

no profit, no motive to research…

-Imp

Apple Computers protected their designs with their very lives, while IBM let lots of other companies clone their products. Which decision turned out to be the better one?

Sony protected its Betamax video designs with their very lives, while the inventors of VHS, an objectively shoddier and less efficient system, let lots of other companies clone their products. Same situation. It’s all about learning when to let go.

don’t even get me started about medicine and health care, that should be WAY cheaper, and there are currently artificial controls in place to generate as much money as possible.

Why?

The problem is two fold, and will cause an increasing gap between rich and poor. (like the gap I’m going to show isn’t huge anyways!)

The CEO of GE took home over 48 million dollars last year. do you think they are having profit problems? I’m sure the CEO of these medical firms is the same way about 75% of the money the company brings in goes to the upper management.

If that CEO took just 2 million a year he could give every employee of GE free health care.

and besides those drug companies investing the millions and billions in research get nearly ALL of it back from the government reimbursements. did ya know that?

The second part of the profit margin problem is the stock market. In order for a company to show increasing profit every year to attract investors, they’ll do things like cut healthcare benefits, cut employees, cut employee pay, etc. anything to make thier profit margin increase.

Making profit isn’t a bad thing, selling things for profit isn’t a bad thing. Controlling something with monopolistic power and limiting imports so you can charge sick people whatever you want to attract investors is EVIL.

and how do they do this? through large corporate lobbying organizations similiar to the BSA or the RIAA. The government is ran by big business in America.

your right, had apple allowed clones of it’s hardware there’s no doubt mac-compatibles sold for cheap would’ve taken over as the popular computer in the states. Same thing with betamax.

if there’s a cheaper alternative that doesn’t limit your rights chances are people will choose it. (well most of the time :wink:

STOP. you are now to spend the next 8 years of your life in intensive schooling so you can learn how to be a doctor. you will work 80 hour weeks for minimum wage and you will like it…
convince all your friends to do the same…

it is hardly evil, but if you think it is so evil, do something…

then stop taking drugs that were developed by american drug companies…

if it was invented in america, you shouldn’t use it…

-Imp

I never said doctors should be paid less in that whole spiel. NEVER. I agree doctors with the schooling they have to do would have no motivation to become doctors. (in the states.) but teachers have to go through some pretty intensive schooling too, and when they come out they are in the lower middle class making about 35,000 a year.

but that’s not even what I was talking about, even doctors have a massive gap compared to the CEO’s in this country. Or the sports stars. I mean let’s look at where the majority of the money is going in this country. Not to doctors, teachers etc.

the reason for high health costs? exorbitant amounts of R&D that go to develop drugs? no those are all comped by the government, then why are drugs so expensive? to comp the executives pockets. They sell the drugs for half the price in Canada. (same companies!)

What are other reasons? frivilous law suits, Terrible insurance companies. and many others.

no it is evil, but it’s only the tip of the iceberg. Insurance companies for profit (auto insurance, life insurance, health etc.) are the base.

what? how do you come to that conclusion from what I said? Jesus Christ.

American drug companies supply the world with the same drugs we get but at a fraction of the cost. why do they charge so much? because they know they insurance companies will shell it out (some of them) and the ones that won’t they can buy the generic drugs that do the same thing…

a percentage of the generic drug money still goes to the drug manufacturer, so why not just sell the drug for fair market value that people could afford without insurane? instead they charge 400 - 500 dollars a bottle in some cases, and others MUCH more.

If it wasn’t patented they could work with other drug companies and develop drugs with a larger community. BUT, since all they give a FUCK about is profit the drugs won’t develop as fast.

This would be a potent argument, if such companies did not act to restrict cures for diseases, as their main concern, profit, requires only the development of drugs that treat symptoms.

very well put GCT.

snip

Hold on there Imp, are you saying students should demand to get paid for the research projects they do? just kidding

Seriosuy, when it comes to music and stuff, I do not think the incentive is always to make money, oftentimes it is, but it oftentimes is also done for fun, because they want to spread a message, et all.

Copyrights are good, but not the current laws, the curent ones are abused and need reform, not to mention making it shorter.[/b]

yes they should… the graduate students at any rate… and they usually do with scholarships and grants…

-Imp

yes and it’s only going to get worse.

while this sounds like a good idea, it sets up the “greed factor” that you should always get paid for work you do.

Personally I agree with this stance:

if it’s truly something you enjoy doing, than you don’t care about getting money for it, I mean you obviously need enough to get by, but anything beyond that is un-needed luxury, and with the case of the CEO’s I was talking about earlier were talking about un-needed luxury on a degree that no one here will probably ever understand.

Can you imagine blowing 6 months of rent in a single dinner?

exactly… you should never get paid for anything…

you can be my slave…

50 million cap?

no, you would be happier with a 50 CENT cap… but you would be greedy to accept one penny for your work…

brilliant…

-Imp

your carrying it too far to the extreme. Even Richard Stallman doesn’t agree with slavery or getting comped nothing, under his plan (if accepted) programmers would probably make 45 - 50K a year easy. While not lavish and as much as high end IT and programmers get now, it’s more than enough.

the line between greed and non-greed is thin.
50 million a year cap? my god, that’s enough to feed a small town for a year.

(I know future man put that idea forward.)

I would impose a FIVE million a year cap.
if you saved 1/5th of that a year you’d have enough to live off the interest the rest of your life in 15 years. What to do with all the extra money? free healthcare (doctors could still make what they deserve I don’t consider 100K unreasonable for a skilled surgeon). Extreme education reform with higher standards and triple the pay to skilled teachers.

all that is societal changes though, short term we need to change the copyright and patent laws to avoid criminalizing NON criminals. (i.e. we already criminalize people who get high, should we add to that societal burden people who copy software? Do you think the ever increasing need for higher pay is the higher tax burden put on the american people from stupid laws?)

IBM gets it:

cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.a … ist=google

If you dislike the “free” GPL liscence look at this free liscense:

creativecommons.org

I had another thought on this. From another angle.

Let’s say that I didn’t think all these drastic societal changes should take place. Let’s say that I thought Capitalism is hunky dory.

IP, copyrights and patents violate the very basic rules of capitalism. They take control from the “free market” and give it to the corporation with the IP, Patent, copyright, or the government which will set any penalty for violating those things that the corporations suggest.

So Bill Gates was wrong when he said that countries that don’t support IP rights are communistic.

Countries that DO support IP rights are not only anti-capitalism, they are borderline communism. They take control away from the people and small businesses and give it to a select few.

so much for the free market deciding!

I agree that current copyright and patent law has gotten out of hand. One example the Monster Cable company. They make speaker cables, but have been vigorous in shaking down other companies that use the very common English word “monster” in any context. Supposed victims of their legal manuevering- Monster’s Inc (the Disney film), Monster Garage (TLC is negotiation to liscence their own name from Monster so they don’t have to change the name :confused: ), and a few more that would make you nuts.

But I disagree with abolishing the concept of copyright & patent altogether. I think that would create a disincentive to innovate and especially to create something expensive. For example, look at the wonderful Lord of the Rings trilogy of films. In all, the cycle cost over $400 million to shoot and produce. Now what if I could legally purchase the DVD and duplicate it with no compensation to New Line? Certainly I could easily undercut the price they charge- I have none of my own money tied up the endeavor! I could make a wonderful profit selling my DVD discs for 1/3 to 1/2 of what the studio would need to turn a profit. A better example would direct to video films (like the bulk of family stuff, cartoons & porn). With no theatrical runs to subsidize the video release, where would the incentive be to create a product with no exclusive sales rights?

Setting aside the whole issue of drugs for a moment, think of expensive industrial and computer research. It would be pointless for any small inventor or lab to engage in any type of pure research with no ability to defray the costs by selling the fruits of that research to companies that needed the technology and that could bring it to market.

Lastly, I’m not willing to allow anyone to arbitrarily determine how much money I “deserve” to make. An employer can determine what they’ll pay me based upon what I’ll help them earn- if I don’t like that, I can go elsewhere. I think that atheletes and their like are overpaid, but I’d be more unhappy to see self appointed social engineers deciding for me the value of my entertainment. Let everyone earn what the market will bear.

That said, I’m not a big believer in minimum wage, either.

LMAO, that’s too funny. Why does our government let corporations license WORDS! My god.

I heard a good one awhile back, Microsoft was trying to trademark the word “windows” Uh does that mean I’ll have to pay microsoft royalties if I list as a “window installer” in the phone book?

I’m sure, copyright and patent law was intended to protect the little guy, now it’s used to maintain market control, and to THREATEN the little guy with legal action.

Why is such Anti-capitalistic, Anti-Democratic behaviour allowed?

simple, they pad the congressional seats with 100 dollar bills.

I’m not for aboloshing it altogether, but fair use needs to be re-defined for the digital age. Take for example the lord of the rings, which cost 400 million to make. They made that much back from the theater viewings alone. Then you add DVD sales, and it triples EASILY. So let’s say I buy a copy and then my friend (hypothetically speaking) can’t afford to rent or buy a copy so I copy it for him or lend it to him.

Do you realize that BOTH actions are against current copyright law?

so it made 1000% profit. I’d say that’s pretty damn good. Especially when you consider that doesn’t include the above DVD profit. a few people making archival or “friendly” copies is a drop in the bucket.

edit: and remember that 297 million already includes all of the salaries for the production crew and the actors so anything extra is like a big fat bonus check for all of them… or is it? you know who gets most of the money? New line.

By disallowing copying they are pretty much calling ALL of us criminals. We are all ready to set up shop selling copied DVD’s according to their view.

certainly you could but the license doesn’t have to be that open. The GPL and BSD licenses allow you to do just that make as many copies as you want, sell it if you want.

But large corporations and corporate lobbies (like RIAA, BSA, MPAA) don’t want us to have “fair-use” rights. We are all criminals and should be treated as such.

The DMCA passed in recent years is a perfect example of this. They are allowed under the DMCA to go to your ISP and ask for your name and the ISP is supposed to fold under this mafia pressure.

that’s a moot point, the government reimburses every cent of R&D cost for most drug companies. i say most because stem cell research is not currently reimbursed.

Also they could defer this cost even more, by joining with other national and international drug companies.

the market is hyper-extended as we’ll see in the coming years. That is part of the reason why people make copies of copyrighted works. They can’t afford to have a collection like their rich counterparts that is their way to have their collection.

But if you think it’s hyperextended now, it’s going to get seriously MUCH worse before it snaps. The gap between middle and upper class is going to become very very wide.

well because the government has allowed these unchecked monopolistic corporations to grow, and then when they need to have ever increasing profit margins outsource to other countries, minimum wage becomes a necessity. It wouldn’t be if outsourcing was penalized.

it’s like (I believe) future man said either limit the freedoms of a few or substantially eliminate the freedoms of many. The latter path is the one we are currently on, and if you are not in the upper 1% you are going to be finding yourself in the squeeze.

more information about your eroding rights:

DMCA:
eff.org/IP/DMCA/?f=unintende … ences.html

Broadcast flag:
eff.org/IP/Video/HDTV/

even if you don’t agree with my radical social engineering you have to agree that copyrights and patents stymie true free market growth.

read up on the GPL, and creativecommons.org.

both are licenses intended to give the user more power while still empowering the copyright holder.

I totally agree that Fair Use is being trampled, but it’s easy to overstate the profit involved. LotR is in a way a bad example since it was so successful. But did you know that 90% of all the movies that get released actually lose money for the studio? When you understand that, you see that LotR didn’t just make 1000% profit- it bankrolled a lot of riskier movies that weren’t profitable. And some of those were good movies that had a message, yet weren’t commercially viable. It’s bad enough that very few studios make ‘risky’, experimental films on purpose- but even that number would drop if there was no way to prevent the movie from being legally pirated.

Any rate, we could allow fair use without tearing down the whole system and allowing unliscenced commercial copying. There’s probably no one in America more acutely aware of how our Fair Use rights are taking it up the poop chute than I am. But a fair law would have to cut both ways- you would be able to make copies for your own use, and make compilations, but the system breaks down if you allow piracy to become legal. Fair Use really doesn’t take any money out of the artists pockets. You can make a case that limited “piracy” probably also ultimately helps sell records, but I’m discussing only the principle involved (ie no wrongs even if it ‘all works out in the end’).

Copying a movie for you own use would be legal in a better world (actually, it’s not really the copying that’s illegal- it’s decrypting the DSS on the DVD that violates the law), but copying for a buddy- that’s a little shakier. If every single person did that, a movie would sell 1/2 as many. Naturally not everyone would do so, and some people (like me) prefer to have the artwork, etc. Plus, DVD-R isn’t 100% reliable over the long term. Back when I was a kid, we taped our LPs and tapes and traded them a lot. Technically this of course was illegal, but in almost every case if we really liked it after listening a few times we ended up buying it for ourselves.

Philosophically, copying is a slippery slope. Generally, if you steal from a store the store can’t sell the item you’ve stolen. In a very strict literal sense, when you copy something you’re not doing anything to the original. And if you paid for the original, no one is losing out. If you sell copies, most people would agree that’s piracy. But what if you give the copy away? That’s a bit trickier.

One solution that the RIAA seems to have forgotten is the tax on consumer audio grade CD-R blanks. This is a tax of a few cents that goes to the RIAA to defray the assumed copying that you purchased the disc for. DATA blanks aren’t included, and the law doesn’t specify how the RIAA should distribute the money among it’s members. I actually wouldn’t mind this very small tax on media being expanded to all blank media, CD & DVD, with the express condition that Fair Use as set in the landmark Sony Vs Hollywood case be guarenteed. Fat chance of that, though.

I will agree that industry paranoia about DMR has stifled innovation. Many people assumed SACD was an attempt by Sony to make a better sounding disc. How untrue! The real truth is that the patents were expiring on the CD- maybe most people don’t realize it, but royalties from the CD format brought in over $1 billion per year for Sony. So what Sony & Philips really wanted wasn’t a ‘better CD’, it wanted a new revenue stream. Oh of course they did want to “improve” the CD in one respect- they wanted a replacement with strong anti-copying encryption.:confused:

I think our positions are not that far apart, with a two exceptions. 1, I don’t think the Constitution ever comes out and says copyright is just for the little guys. And 2, I don’t want anyone deciding what a “fair amount” of profit is! That’s for the market to decide, not the government- to have it otherwise really would be to undermine the market and our whole system. I really think that applies to equally guys like Bill Gates, Randy Moss, Britney Spears and you or I.

well a possible solution to this problem I’ll discuss below you mentioned something that is tossed around by the EFF.org, and GPL groups trying to stop this from happening.

completely agree, there’s alot of non-mainstream movies that are great that lose money. There’s also alot of mainstream crap that loses money appropriately.

Sure, this problem has already happened in the music industry. They only advertise certain bands and don’t give any radio time to the great artists starting out, so only the bands that get radio play make it big, and the large labels don’t fund small groups. The mainstream music industry has already homogenized itself it won’t be long before the movie industry does the same.

by allowing people copying rights and performance rights doesn’t equal piracy. I very much doubt a majority of the people out there have aspirations to start pirating movies or games or music.

Fair use includes:

being able to play the item you purchased on ANY system and not being locked into a system or a program. Examples against this:

Games:
Everquest 2, World of Warcraft lock you into their perspective servers, if you want to start your own private server to play those games on, they can pursue legal action because of the DMCA.

Music:
If you purchase music from iTunes, you can only download it to the iPod player. you also can only burn a specific playlist 7 times, and authorize 5 computers to play it. While this may seem fair, the fact that they limit you, to me, feels like “we don’t trust you, so we are going to limit your freedom.” It’d be like the government having a police officer standing outside of banks, because they felt they couldn’t trust any citizen not to rob the bank.

Soon movies will be the same way, you’ll purchase a movie and not be able to play it on more than one player. As soon as you play it in that player it will be locked to that player.

Another right being lost rapidly is the right of resale. If you purchase one of those online games and try selling it you won’t be able to because the CD-KEY is tied to your computer and your name. (I believe Phantasy Star Online was the first game to do this.) Same with the downloaded purchased music, same with the future of movies.

well since the CSS (not DSS) violates the law I have no problem with that, when a linux hacker broke the encryption so he could watch movies on Linux, MPAA tried suing his ass into the ground. The courts showed that the movie industry didn’t have a leg to stand on. That’s part of the reason they are trying several format shifts now. (as you discussed with the SA-CD)

I disagree. The people you copy it for wouldn’t have bought it anyways! This is another industry lie, that every copy produced is lost profit. The only reason these people bought the copy is because it was 5 - 10 dollars instead of 20 - 60.

I agree I like the liner notes, but the industry is shifting away from that for every type of media, no longer will you own something it will be leased bits from either the MPAA, or the RIAA.

especially since they are trying to phase it out. for DVD+R (CP)

sure the same thing happened with the P2P networks that the RIAA shut down because of “lost profit”. Those that can afford to purchase the music, if they like it will purchase it.

your buying the corporate hype that “copying = stealing”. It’s BS. If you own it, it’s not stealing. If you start up a shop selling copied items, then you are stealing.

I disagree. What if you give the copy to a NPO (not for profit organization) What seriously bothers me, is corporations who charge NPO’s for software. Seriously, if you donated it, you could write the cost off! thought for another topic perhaps?

or what if you give the copy to a friend, neighbor who you know is in dire straits and can’t afford entertainment. you give him an occasional copy and it makes his week or month or whatever.

but of course such topics are along the same social change lines, that we need to take more responsibility for those people and groups that are at the bottom of the ladder.

they haven’t forgotten it. Such a tax was suggested by the founder of the GPL, the founder of Napster (before it went commercial).

such an idea makes complete sense for any digital media. Collect a usage tax, then you are free to use it however you want. They would make crazy amounts of money charging a few cents for each media transfer on a P2P.

I think a better idea is the Creative commons, that takes the corporate monster out of the loop.

for example, if you go down to the store and purchase the beatles white album who do you think gets the money? The remaining beatles? surely you jest. They never owned the rights to their music the studio did.

Currently though if you purchased said CD, sony and michael jackson would get the money.

hell yes it has.

yep, sonys plans for corporate world domination are just as insipid as microsofts. They want an all in wonder box, that plays movies, games music records tv etc. They want to be the inlet for all the subscription lease money.

oh yeah easy, and if Blu-Ray catches on vs HD-DVD it will be the same way.

no, but I’m sure it didn’t have these megacorps controlling so much IP. And trying to criminalize it’s consumers.

fine, I’ll drop my social engineering plan from this topic, I don’t think it’s a necessity for copyright reform anyways.

In my mind, copying is copying, theft is theft, but copying neven equals to theft. Just my opinion.

Here is a good quote stated in 1866 that follows my view (or I follow this view, or whatever :slight_smile: )

awesome quote!

I saw something recently that is totally relevant to this, but completely forgot about this post.

wearcam.org/seatsale/index.htm

the site is definately worth a look. here’s a snippet of text:

we’re already at such an age if you think about it. the minute you go to any website that has copyrighted images or text, your browser AUTOMATICALLY copies them to your hard drive. Your a thief and you didn’t even know it!

The whole thing with calling people who copy for personal use “pirates” and suing their customers is ridiculous. Imagine if Toyota sued someone who bought a honda for patent infringements honda made? Do you think said customer would EVER buy a Toyota product?

What if Wonder sued the local bakery for selling sliced bread because they invented sliced bread?

think about the implications of IP and patents and copyrights, and how they are being applied in the media. in other distribution systems if they were applied we would easily (those of us that can’t already see the problem that is.) how ridiculous such things are.