The falicy of Nihilism

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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There was no emotion there at all. Just a list of problems with nihilism, You said yourself that nihilism was a belief that there is no meaning, my post centered around that. I made no reference to nihilists being bad, no accusations personally to you, I do not know what it is you speak of here. All Im doing is showing how your so called ideals are not only worthless but fictitious in the real world.

So if there is no truth nor untruth just opinions, why is 2+2 always 4. And while we are on the subject of opinions cannot these opinions be true to those making them? Something subjective does not mean its not real. Another problem with nihilism is that they say that there is no purpose when purpose is all around us. We can find purpose in a career a family, a moral standpoint. And this is the exact point of the thread, you so called nihilists do not believe that there is purpose, but you do have it, your just cant admit it because your too proud, to arrogant to do so

Nihilists in touch with reality?! Thanks I had not heard anything funny today till then

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"There was no emotion there at all. Just a list of problems with nihilism, You said yourself that nihilism was a belief that there is no meaning, my post centered around that. I made no reference to nihilists being bad, no accusations personally to you, I do not know what it is you speak of here. All Im doing is showing how your so called ideals are not only worthless but fictitious in the real world.

So if there is no truth nor untruth just opinions, why is 2+2 always 4. And while we are on the subject of opinions cannot these opinions be true to those making them? Something subjective does not mean its not real. Another problem with nihilism is that they say that there is no purpose when purpose is all around us. We can find purpose in a career a family, a moral standpoint. And this is the exact point of the thread, you so called nihilists do not believe that there is purpose, but you do have it, your just cant admit it because your too proud, to arrogant to do so

Nihilists in touch with reality?! Thanks I had not heard anything funny today till then
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Rhinoboy,

You have the passion of a born again, are you?, born again I mean. It is apparent to most philosophers that the only meaning available to us is subjective and it has to do with the perception of the relations between subject and object. If you believe the objective world is just stuffed with meaning please indicate how you come to such a conclusion-----faith? You speak of finding purpose but it is not in the objective world alone in which you find the purpose in family ect…, this is finding value/meaning in the relations between yourself as subject, and the physical world as object. In the absence of a subject there is nothing, can’t graps it, don’t blame the messengers. Again you make accusations that do not belong to me, do I believe in purposes, values, of course I do, but they do not belong to the physical world of itself, the only meaning in the physical world is given to it by a subject, a consciousness. Only the relations of subject and object can have meaning for a subject, meaning is relational, truth is often termed the knowledge of those relations. You need to open up a bit in your considerations, if you cannot do that because of faith, that is your problem, do not inflict it upon others.

“Subject and object stand or fall together.” Schopenhaur

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Rhinoboy,

You have the passion of a born again, are you?, born again I mean. It is apparent to most philosophers that the only meaning available to us is subjective and it has to do with the perception of the relations between subject and object. If you believe the objective world is just stuffed with meaning please indicate how you come to such a conclusion-----faith? You speak of finding purpose but it is not in the objective world alone in which you find the purpose in family ect…, this is finding value/meaning in the relations between yourself as subject, and the physical world as object. In the absence of a subject there is nothing, can’t graps it, don’t blame the messengers. Again you make accusations that do not belong to me, do I believe in purposes, values, of course I do, but they do not belong to the physical world of itself, the only meaning in the physical world is given to it by a subject, a consciousness. Only the relations of subject and object can have meaning for a subject, meaning is relational, truth is often termed the knowledge of those relations. You need to open up a bit in your considerations, if you cannot do that because of faith, that is your problem, do not inflict it upon others.

“Subject and object stand or fall together.” Schopenhaur
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Firstly why the regards to faith, ive said nothing about my religious standing, my findings are based on reason. You say that there is no meaning outside of subjective meaning, In my previous post I exclaimed this, I do not understand why you think that I rejected it, perhaps you need to read things a little more carefully. My point is that a subjective meaning does not neglect there being meaning. If you belive there is meaning you are not a nihilist. Secondly subjective to objective works on a spectrum, something subjective can have elements of objective, for example, there can be a great understanding of what is beautifull by considering the mean value of peoples oppinions.
In your post you are guilty of the two things you accues me of, you firstly accuse me of things that are not true of me, where as I have done nothing but remark on the social stand point you apparently embrace, secondly you tell me I need to open up, I think you are more in need of that advice than me.

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"Firstly why the regards to faith, ive said nothing about my religious standing, my findings are based on reason. You say that there is no meaning outside of subjective meaning, In my previous post I exclaimed this, I do not understand why you think that I rejected it, perhaps you need to read things a little more carefully. My point is that a subjective meaning does not neglect there being meaning. If you belive there is meaning you are not a nihilist. Secondly subjective to objective works on a spectrum, something subjective can have elements of objective, for example, there can be a great understanding of what is beautifull by considering the mean value of peoples oppinions.
In your post you are guilty of the two things you accues me of, you firstly accuse me of things that are not true of me, where as I have done nothing but remark on the social stand point you apparently embrace, secondly you tell me I need to open up, I think you are more in need of that advice than me.
[/quote]

Rhinoboy,

The realization that there is no meaning to the objective world but only that meaning given to it by a subject/consciousness is a nihilistic understanding, if you can appreiciate this, welcome to the club. Can you grasp the premise, in the absence of a subject there is no meaning, there is not even object, in the absence of a subject there is nothing. “Subject and object stand or fall together,” Schopenhaur
There is but subject and object, remove either and all ceases to exist, this is the essence of standing or falling together.The problem with this thread I believe is everybody has a different defination of what it is to be a nihilist, this understanding of subject and object though is elemental to the term nihilist. My belief that objective reality contains no meaning in and of itself, is not a social statement, but a statement about the nature of reality. Your stated spectrum upon which subject and object gains its meaning, is the relation between subject and object, all meaning is the property of a subject, it belongs not to the physical world. In the absence of consciousness/subject, there is nothing, zip, nada, naught!

Let me say this, my self-defination as a nihilist would be limited to the acknowldedgement that the objective world contains no meaning, all meaning is subjectively given, now that realization may have profound consequences to ones previously held philosophy.The essential element for me is in the absence of a subject there is no meaning, there is not even object. Meaning, as the relations of subject and object belong to the subject, subject and object can never be considered separately.

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Rhinoboy,

The realization that there is no meaning to the objective world but only that meaning given to it by a subject/consciousness is a nihilistic understanding, if you can appreiciate this, welcome to the club. Can you grasp the premise, in the absence of a subject there is no meaning, there is not even object, in the absence of a subject there is nothing. “Subject and object stand or fall together,” Schopenhaur
There is but subject and object, remove either and all ceases to exist, this is the essence of standing or falling together.The problem with this thread I believe is everybody has a different defination of what it is to be a nihilist, this understanding of subject and object though is elemental to the term nihilist. My belief that objective reality contains no meaning in and of itself, is not a social statement, but a statement about the nature of reality. Your stated spectrum upon which subject and object gains its meaning, is the relation between subject and object, all meaning is the property of a subject, it belongs not to the physical world. In the absence of consciousness/subject, there is nothing, zip, nada, naught!

Let me say this, my self-defination as a nihilist would be limited to the acknowldedgement that the objective world contains no meaning, all meaning is subjectively given, now that realization may have profound consequences to ones previously held philosophy.The essential element for me is in the absence of a subject there is no meaning, there is not even object. Meaning, as the relations of subject and object belong to the subject, subject and object can never be considered separately.
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Well your not a nihilist so Im not realy bothered. My point is that nihilists dont live up to the definition of nihilism which they dont

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Rhinoboy,

I suspected that from the first, there is a lot of passion in this thread over terms which are not agreed upon, it makes both sides look a little foolish. Perhaps if nihilism were clearly defined I would not call myself such, but it is not clearly defined. The meaninglessness of the objective world is the key to the term nihilism, if it has to be more than that I guess I am not a nihilist.

Rhinoboy, you have attributed your own dialogue to me, look at the quotation at the top of your post.

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Like I said, you dont support the claims that I put in about nihilism in the op, as you dont fit this definition it does not matter.

I dont know why you think there is passion here at all. I have not swore or insulted for the entire thread by my understanding, the emotion you speak of must be in your head

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Rhinoboy

Every gracious of you! That fact is you called me in your first post a fake. All am saying is before people get to invested in their opinons the terms should be defined. You seemed to have some difficulty with some pretty basic logic around the nature of subject and object, that is what convinced me you really did not know what you were talking about. Do you now agree, that there is no meaning to the objective world in and of itself?

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Calling you a fake is no insult nor is it emotionally stiring, it may insult you, but in actuality its just naming you as something I belive you are.

Wetherr or not I agree that there is no objective meaning is irrelevant here, and i dont think you have any evidence that I do not know what Im talking about. Again you need to take some of your own advice and learn the basics of logic

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I shall do that! Thank you Rhinoboy!

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I feel that this is a rather naive perception. Nihilism is simply a word coined to define such behavior.

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I guess we have different understandings of the word then

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What defines nihilism despite believing in nothing? The recognition of the nothingness behind the beliefs and the actions.

Don’t like the evil of life I see, rhinoboy?..

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Aidan Mclaren,

It is not a matter of choseing to believe in nothing, it is the fact that there is nothing to believe in, in the objective world, in and of itself -----quite an important destinction. All meaning is the property of a subject, the physical world/objective world has absolutely no meaning in and of itself!!

Subject and object cannot be considered separately—Boagie

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I didn’t imply in my post that there is a matter of choosing, it happens naturally. That was in response to Rhinoboy’s post about his so-called “refutation” of nihilists.

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Aidan_Mclaren,

You ask in the previous post,“What defines nihilism, believing in nothing?” Perhaps it is an unfortunate wording. I do not think that a nihilist necessarily believes in nothing, he is aware that there can only be meaning in consciousness, thus a subject/individual. He is also aware reciporically that there is no meaning in the objective world in and of itself, thus it is not possiable to believe there is meaning in the physical world-----WITHOUT A SUBJECT. Nihilism is known for its devalueing property in its metaphysics of morality, values, and perspective on the objective world. Christianity Nietsche stated, was the first nihilistic tradition devalueing the physical world in favor of a fictitious one, if you think about it, he is right on the money. Perhaps the mistake of inference is mine, but some people just don’t seem to get it that there is no meaning in and of the physical world. The knowing of the meaninglessness of the objective world it seems to me, to be the primary term of the defination of Nihilism.

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Most arrogant ignoramuses would say “Obviously you believe in something, you eat don’t you?” That’s why I said that comment. I meant to say “What defines nihilism despite believing believing”. Sorry.

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I am saying that I only believe in my own senses as it is the only thing I can trust and by the very conjecture that other people have their individual senses outside of my own only proves that their word on anything is not a concrete validation of accepting their truth or premises on anything outside of myself unless I alone expirience it first.

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The idea of a nihilist incorporates many different aspect of the human condition.

For example the emotional aspect is that the Nihilist cares about nothing, since there is nothing to care about.
With this he insinuates that he is free.
Yet, many nihilists display a profound caring and the fact that they act at all exposes this.
Their very existence contradicts their Nihilism.

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amen brother. anyone with half a brain knows this nihilistic stuff is a BIG STEAMING PILE OF SHIT.

Fucking complainers/whiners as far as I’m concerned. Wha’ts their revelation? That they have “power” to “will.” WOOOW I DIDNT KNOW THAT ALREADY