the free speech big lie...

I note that the tendency towards this behaviour scales with power.
The more power any institution has, public or private, the more it will attempt to shape its environment in its image - albeit as a subservient version. It’s their mutually beneficial alliance that enhances their respective power, and with that can only be enhanced a push towards political correctness.
It’s not enough to suppress the governmental part of this alliance, as private corporations will still remain obscenely powerful. Authoritarianism must be quashed on both sides, which can only be done from below by the people.

If government comes after you, as a megacorp you can swat it away. As a layman, you cannot swat away either government or go to another megacorp that refuses to serve you because “the market price”, dictated by the “accepted” level of profit that they demand to make, unites them in their refusal of your insufficient funds. If you are not judged by them as having acceptable potential to make them even more money, you will be denied a job - so as to be permitted to have an income at all, to give back to them in order to afford to live at all. By their grace, you may survive without turning to crime. If the government come after you, what’s the difference?

The Classical Liberal theory is that Capitalism has some degree of tendency towards the ideal of perfect competition, but this is only true in a poor society. With or without government alliance, in a rich society, the rich are able to pull away further and further, pooling resources to circulate mostly amongst themselves. Workers can forever be tossed minimal scraps, and only the minority with enough skill to enable capitalists to pull away even further are afforded a measured glimpse into their world. Most workers are expected to enable the owners to pull away in terms of wealth to justify any job at all. As conservatives will argue, the scraps are cheaper and of better quality as private owners compete with one another, and this is true. But this is small consolation as power is incrementally handed over to a minority who will eventually own your mind as technology is integrated into human life more and more. It’s bad enough that they hold our free time hostage to make them relatively even more better off than we are. But soon we will be directly plugged into the products they offer and subject to their wishes thinking they are our own, but at least we’ll have nice things? What kind of trade is that?

Yeah, I’ll give you that libertarians and any socially liberal types are anti-war. That encompasses at least some of the right I’m sure. I’m not aware of any leftists who support war - and members of the Democrat party don’t count. They’re authoritarian as soon as they gain their authority. It’s interesting that you distance yourself from neocons like I distance myself from the authoritarian left (who are usually anti-war despite their oppressive tactics) - I don’t consider you to be particularly right wing at all, but we agree on being against war and oligopoly.

I’m fine with tech, I just don’t want it owned by private business or government. It must be owned by the people: individuals. Political correctness or any agenda must stay out of it, whatever the source.

Notice how Silhouette conveniently glosses over the context here, which is expunging the President of the United States from multiple social-media platforms, which are obliged by federal law to remain neutral about Political speech, because it is a First Amendment issue. However, Sil being the Communist that he is, doesn’t have respect for USA, the Bill of Rights, and by all means, can count as a foreign agent provocateur. He wants to destroy the US Constitution from the outside, while his Comrades in the US, the turncoats and traitors, attack the First Amendment from the inside. Silhouette is no different, in effect, than a Chinese CCP shill pushing disinformation into American circles. All of this is “part of the plan” though. All Americans should take a few steps back and ask yourselves, “How did we degrade and deteriorate so far that our enemies, foreign and domestic, are attacking our First Amendment?”:

This is false, wrong, and legally incorrect of course.

While the First Amendment explicitly bars the US Government from passing laws prohibiting speech, the intent of the First Amendment and Bill of Rights in general, is about protecting all US American Citizens from the same violations by any other power as well. Other individuals do not have the Right to violate my and your free speech. Other businesses do not have the Right to violate my and your free speech. Does this mean that a website on the internet can bar and ban political dissent that it chooses to? Yes, they can do this, to a degree, but not in Principle. And if it comes to America as a whole, if there are individuals or businesses (and there are now) which violate the spirit and intent of the Bill of Rights, that individuals may express themselves freely and publicly, then they too are Unconstitutional.

This is common-sense, of course.

But the rise of the Communists, and the Communist takeover, is obvious throughout this forum. Americans need to stand up and defend our Bill of Rights right now, versus this scum, or you all risk losing it forever.

There is no Free Speech in Communist countries by the way. PK and Shillouette cannot deny this.

Shillouette, you can’t hold a candle to obsrvr, so don’t even try. He turns circles around you in any reasoned and rational dispute.

At least the French see what’s going on, the line of Freedom still have the flame in heart:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEppXOHRTtE[/youtube]

Urwrongx1000:Notice how Silhouette conveniently glosses over the context here, which is expunging the President of the United States from multiple social-media platforms, which are obliged by federal law to remain neutral about Political speech, because it is a First Amendment issue.

K: please free to show us us the “federal law” to remain neutral about political speech…
in fact, social media has its own “contract” with the people who belong to the social media,
for example, Facebook has a “contract” that says we must obey the rules and conditions of
those contract or we will be booted off…IQ45 violated those rules and conditions…as
Facebook can and does control the content of their media, so they can allow or ban as
they see fit…now the secondary question is, is this right?

Is is right that social media has this type of power and that argument has been answered
by the right wing types who made social media what it is…big tech is also big business
and the right wing has defended and supported big business for decades… the rules
that the right has used to allow big business to overcome labor and other factors,
now come into play when it comes to big tech… if you attack big tech, that is fine by me,
but then you have to overcome all the advantages that has been given to big business of
which part of is big tech…

the right has coddled and protected big business for decades… which has allowed
big tech the opening they have and have taken advantage of…

you can’t really change the game mid- game…

if you attack big tech, you have to attack all of big business because the perks
given to them are the same…

so join with me and take away the advantages of big business that also
benefits big tech… make them pay taxes, make them obey the laws,
make them accountable to the people they serve… this attack is kinda
an all or nothing attack… you can’t specifically attack big tech and leave it at that…
if you attack big tech, then you must attack big business…

and I will happily stand with you if you wish to begin this engagement with
big business/big tech
(I would prefer to destroy big business/big tech, but at least cut them down to
a manageable size)

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin: it is not relevant if I agree or disagree,
the entire point of the 1st amendment is to prevent the GOVERNMENT from
stopping free speech… the 1st amendment doesn’t engage with the private acts
of individual or of business/corporations…"

UR: This is false, wrong, and legally incorrect of course.

K: uh, no… the 1st amendment is quite clear and has been legislated
for centuries…it doesn’t prevent or even talk about private acts of the individual
or of business/corporations…it makes no mention at all about business or the
individual in individual acts of free speech…

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR
OF THE PRESS OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, and to petition the
government for a redress of grievances”

that is the entire first amendment…I have no idea where you got the other shit from

now do I agree that congress should not, not make any laws abridging the freedom of
speech… I do agree with the entire first amendment… that congress should not make
any laws abridging our freedom of speech…

Kropotkin

Sure, takes me a few seconds:

law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230

Now, ask yourself, why aren’t you doing your own homework???

Yes it’s all a conspiracy ~woooooooo~!

The president is not special in the eyes of the first Amendment. Read the words: he is a person like all the rest of us. At the moment, so are corporations, and whoever tries to speak “through” a corporation in the way that violates the free speech of that corporation is violating the First Amendment. Presidential status does not override this - stop pretending like he’s some kind of special guy in this respect, he is not. The only thing that stands him apart is the Bill of Rights. The same thing applies in exactly the same way to everyone else - and while he used to be president for his single term, he was actually given a lot more leniency at the time with respect to his former position, simply out of respect for the position itself - nothing to do with the First Amendment. Now he lost after only that one single term, he is no different from any other “person who doesn’t say what Twitter wants to say” as part of Twitter’s First Amendment rights. Get over it. I mean - as somebody who doesn’t use the trash service, it’s fucking Twitter, who gives a shit?

He encourages you because you agree with him, and you afford him the same privilege for doing the same in return. But this is intellectually irresponsible on both your parts. I can’t deny your First Amendment rights to do so, though. Out of respect for the intentions behind the First Amendment. The respect that I have a great deal for - remember that. Doesn’t mean I have to respect the contents of said speech, only the right to say things, no matter how disrespectful, which you both have. You used to think you ran circles around me, so that goes to show just how much your opinion is worth on what he has been doing. Remember, you are free to speak, but to this day your words mean nothing. It doesn’t have to be like this, and my words here have nothing, I repeat NOTHING to do with your political position.

If you’d stop to actually listen, pray - to think! - you might realise “commies” aren’t as much your enemy as you seem to need to think: Authoritarianism is. This flicks your brain automatically into “no-no” mode - did you just feel it? I can feel it from here before you’ve even read these words. That “flick” is what turns you against anything you hear that doesn’t agree with the opinions you already held before you’ve even rationally considered them. Listen to that flick, and observe how it feels, when it occurs, but always look out for it and notice it. With enough training, you could learn to hold that flick for just a second while you mull over how the cause could have a point. For a long time, you will resist such self-control, and for even longer after that you will shut out any doubt before it gets the chance to trouble you. Eventually, if you have the ability to gain such mental mastery, which involves a lot of discipline unfortunately, you will be able to evaluate positions you hear that you don’t agree with, put them to one side of your mind, remember them, and maintain your own prejudices simultaneously - and feel free to speak in favour of such prejudices to your hearts content all the while, but on this day, when you finally manage to control and evaluate multiple points of view, you can stand in triumph. I mean this, by the way. For on this day you will have learned to think. On that day, I will be proud of you - genuinely proud. I want you to know that.

The US President is the First Citizen. If the Bill of Rights do not protect him (from censorship by social media) then it protects nobody else.

That is the argument at hand, which you are too dense to understand or appreciate.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D78SbL-S-I[/youtube]

The Bill of Rights just partition the triune structure of the government, have you even read them? They’re boring as fuck, but they’re philosophically very important in their distinction between legislative, executive and judicial powers. That’s the only thing that sets the president apart from anyone else. The amendments apply to everyone, even corporations, equally as people no different from anyone else. The president, “First Citizen” or no, has no special rights in light of the amendments.

Did you feel that “flick”?

K: ummm, did you even read this? for example to directly quote from this.

  1. to preserve the vibrant and competitive free market that presently exists for
    for the Internet and other interactive computer services (facebook or twitter)
    unfettered by Federal or state regulation.

section (A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or
availability of material that the provider or the user considers to be obscene,
lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable,
whether or not such material is constitutionally protected…

are you really sure this is going to be your defense?

Kropotkin

Did you read it?

Censoring people from public, social media sites, is not maximizing user control over what information is received by individuals, families, and schools.

It is the exact opposite.

yo dog it literally says that twitter isn’t liable for that shit.

(2)Civil liability
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of—
(A)any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected;

it also doesnt say “politically neutral” anywhere, nor does it say anything like that at all.

u r so confused that u r citing the law that trump wants to repeal, (section 230), in an attempt to defend trumps position.

also u should ask trump why he put Ajit Pai at fcc to gut net neutrality since all of a sudden u seem to care about this sort of thing

I take it that what both of you mean by “not debatable” is “I don’t want to debate it because I don’t see the point of it”. And I can appreciate that. If you don’t want to debate, you don’t have to and you don’t even have to justify yourself.

But this thread has been started with the aim to debate the right way of interpreting the US constitution.

Obviously, there are people who interpret it differently (Silhouette, PK and phoneutria on one side, you and Observer on the other side.)

The point of this thread is to make an attempt to resolve disagreements pertaining to the interpretation of the US constitution and not to discuss what’s better (which is what phoneutria attempted to do, and I can understand her, since I too find that subject more interesting.)

This is not a thread about the man behind the name “Observer”, what kind of help he needs and how erratic, presumptuous and prone to conformation bias he is.

These are no more than personal attacks (: