is it reason
which brings in knowledge
is it logic
which dwells on the knowledge given ( or can logic dwell where there is NO knowledge given , pure thought )
pain brings in thought
pleasure brings in thought
reason conflates and confuses perceptions
one doesn’t see what one doesn’t believe
authentic hallucinations
-Imp
Incoming sensory information is the basis from which thought is produced.
Myth of the Given?
Each thought we think splits itself up and creates the division of the thinker or the self and the world. The process of thinking is a constant attempt to become other than itself, to change the given or the present condition, however the condition is perceived to be. Thought uses all its knowledge of the past, knowledge of all the things that have given us pleasure or pain, to create a state of permanence for itself, a state of permanent happiness, and perpetually seeks to attain that state. Whether it is a millionaire seeking the next million or a religious devotee seeking God’s grace, the process of seeking is identical.
Some say that thought is fundamentally for the fixation of belief. Others say that thought is fundamentally for the loosening up of belief. One gives solid foundations, yet has the tendency to encrust us into those very foundations. The other has a tendency to cause instability, yet it allows us to move quickly and move forward. In itself, thought likes to move endlessly. It does not like to stand still. Therefore, the more primordial function of thought is to loosen up what gets fixed, what gets accepted as knowledge.
Agreed … but with a comment on the last, “to loosen up … what gets accepted as knowledge.” Acceptance of knowledge itself cannot harm. It’s needed for purposes of communication. Rather, it’s how knowledge/thinking is used.
question: is there such a thing as knowledge for the sake of knowledge, or is it for the sake of empowering the self?
^^knowledge is a tool.
We categorize to be able to get what we want. We do not simply think up divisions (okay sometimes we do), nor simply observe these divisions. We do stuff in trying to get what we wish for, interact with the material world and remember the good and the bad ways of going about it. Similar experiences are used to make up categories, and refine them. Thinking then is geared toward acting in the world to get what we want.
Thought is indispensable in the material world. That’s where you see results. But thought is not the instrument for improving the physical/biological life of the human organism because there are no problems there.
In that sense there is no problem with our present life. For thought there seems to be one because it extracts certain knowledge out of past pleasures and pains, compares the present with it, passes judgments, avoids the present by concocting a future and pursuing it. But for the comparisons that thought makes there is no problem with our life as it is; and there is no other life. It is precisely our thought of a better state that prevents us from coming to terms with our life as it is.
true
only because one believes in reason and logic…
nothing more than mind games…
-Imp
in what way ?
only if though , one does not see and/or understand the Reasoning given and the logic that follows
and the truth that follows
A statement in a post is contradicted by the next statement, a third statement contradicts the first two statements, a fourth statement contradicts - rather negates than contradicts - the first four, and the fifth one negates the sixth even before it is made! This is done not with the idea of arriving at a positive position; the negation is made for the sake of negation because nothing can be expressed, and you can’t say this is the truth. There is no such thing as truth. A logically ascertained premise, yes. You can write a book on My Search for Truth' or God knows what - My Experiments with Truth’.
In this particular time frame, all events are independent, and there is no continuity among them. Each event is an independent frame, but you are linking up all these frames and trying to channel the movement of life in a particular direction for your ulterior motives. But actually you have no way of controlling the events. They are outside of you. All you can do is establish a relationship with particular events, or put them all together and create a tremendous structure of thought and philosophy.
What I am saying is valid and true for just this moment. 
so the statement that , without air or water you will die , is not a truth
and will be contradicted by …
Well, we have to get food, water, keep warm, get shelther every day… i’d say there are allways plenty of problems. I don’t see how you just can come to terms with these, you have put in efforts every day and keep up with changing circumstances. And yes we can think of better states and better ways to go about getting these, that’s a good thing, it inspires action to improve our situation. You allmost make it sound like that’s the problem.
arbitrary definitions for arbitrary terms that represent things in themselves that cannot be perceived or known are elevated to the miraculous state of truth, no not impressive enough, scientific truth, no wait, scientific "T"ruth…
and the zealots preach on while the wind blows more dust
I am the truth, follow me
-Imp
Food, clothing and shelter — these are the basic needs. Beyond that, if you want anything, it is the beginning of self-deception.
Thought is a mechanical thing and can solve only mechanical problems. But when you want to use it to understand something living; that is the problem. It is not intended for that. Human problems are something living. You cannot use thinking to solve those problems.
Exactly. You have no recourse but to use thought to get what you want in this world. But when you seek to get what does not exist – permanent happiness, bliss, love, etc. – through thought, you only succeed in pitting one thought against another, creating misery for yourself and the world.
It is the thinking,fantasizing about a non-existent ideal person, society, or state that dooms and fixes one where he is. My belief in what I am does not determine what I in fact am.