In general, when I see people talking about problems, the masses are almost always considered victims and innocent. But what if that’s wrong? Doesn’t the majority hold the power? Are they really victims or are they self-destroying via neglect of important things? What happens when the majority decides to start smoking, or drinking, or circumcise all their children, or do human sacrifices, or do a war, or anything really. Were all the masses tricked by an evil individual, or were the masses so foolish that they accepted bad leadership? Self miss-use is everywhere, and it effects both the individuals and their friends and families. The democratic spirit says for us to love the masses and be a utility for them. I’d reconsider that idea if I were you.
Hi Dan,
To sum it up goes back to an old 60’s hippie mantra: “You get the government you deserve.” I think when we address the masses we need to remember that mostly, people just want to be left the hell alone. The power hungry and the clever understand this and use it to their own ends. So yes, people give up their rights as a group, public, or masses, but the power people make it easy for them to do so and extremely difficult to change. You have a chicken-egg dilemma. Regardless the societal arrangements, conflict seems to be built-in and as long as the masses can adapt to conditions, they’ll accept almost anything. Being pro-active and taking personal responsibility isn’t a high priority for most people.
I think the masses don’t know what they want, then as they are exposed to things something catches their fancy and they may eventually build their life around it. You made a claim that people want to be left alone. What made you make that claim? How sure are you about it? I come from a JW upbringing where they teach their parents to preach to their kids ever since they are born. I feel it was of a vast influence on my life. By chance I broke the chain. Anyways, in that case at least, they favor preaching far above wanting to be left alone and do our own thing.
Do people want to be left alone? That’s just my observations. People constantly bitch about all the intrusions on their job, the fucking neighbors and their loud music, the shitty government, and you name it. Oh, and JW used to show up at my door from time to time and I had the answer down pat. I would tell them that the spiritual needs of my family were well taken care of, but that I admired their willingness to go door to door with their good words. They would look confused, hand me the little tract, and we would wish other a nice day. I would shut the door, file the tract in an appropriate waste basket, and get on with whatever I was doing. And that’s the point. Don’t go away mad, just go away. I’m busy. In one way or the other, I think most people fit that mold.
Ok, so people don’t want intrusion. They also don’t want pain. Does that alone make them good or right? I’m not trying to twist your words. I’m just trying to make conversation. I’ve put up a few replies now but the forum is not overly active. I’m sure people want the good life. But they probably don’t know how to perfectly make it happen, and if they did know, would they actually do it? What if it was really difficult? You see, for me, blaming the masses for things is a rather new concept. I was raised in a family where they blame outside evils and such. Sure they said how human nature has evil in it, but they made the evil seem like the enemy and foreign to human nature. JWs teach how in the beginning human beings were perfect, then they disobeyed god and got imperfect. They would say how unnatural violence and sexual promiscuity were. When I was young it seemed to all make perfect sense to me. I felt like I had all the answers. But to be honest now, I can’t remember even one time when the so-called god would do something solidly. It was always subtle and indirect. They would piss at me for wanting a miracle, but what is so bad about a miracle? Miracles were supposed-to have happened in bible times. And it doesn’t make god tired, since god can’t get tired. So a mircle would be a small thing. How much energy would it require to create a star compared to the amount of energy it takes to look after a baby and heal its sickness. There is a ton of stars. All that energy just sits around and goes to waste while we suffer.
I’ve went off topic a bit with that sh-t, but I felt it should be said.
We can talk about the human mold. It seems to always be changing. I think the best golden age was forgotten in some ancient culture. We are technologically advanced right now but that doesn’t mean life is the best.
Dan, do you know where you find lots of gold? Most gold is found in a matrix of plain 'ol quartz. The quartz and the gold is all mixed together. Gold is valuable and desired, quartz can be found almost anywhere and has no value. I think humans are pretty much the same way. There is the good and valuable mixed in with the plain and worthless. I think it has probably always been that way. One can refine themselves just as gold can be refined from the quartz. It takes time, energy, and a conducive environment. Most people might gather up one or two of the requirements, but rarely all three. So being good or bad just happens for most of the folks. One could hope that there is a little more good than bad in all of us, and I think that is probably true, but it is always on a continuum. Blaming the masses has become much easier as controlling the media has been made easier by funneling media sources into fewer and fewer powerful hands.
Something else to consider: As personal control becomes more and more abstract, so does the GAS factor. That’s why elections are considered a wild success if even half those qualified vote. Too many see their participation as the “public” to be so far removed from their daily lives that selecting the right people to represent them becomes a meaningless onorous chore.
This is part of why I can say people just want to be left alone. What goes on in the seat of government is far far removed from my daily concerns. Does that make sense?
I guess I understand it.
I’m going to go take a break.
I’ll be on maybe tomorrow and later tonight too.
Yeah, it’s nite nite time…
Ok peeps let’s talk about this.
Surely you’ve seen some form of self neglect, self waste or self destruction.
Ever seen an alcoholic or a smoker? How about someone that is apathetic?
This tends to effect the people around them too, but it is mostly self destruction.
Imagine the massive self destruction of free birth, capitalism, abrahamic religion, and its relatives.
I thought more people would have comments on it.
So far all I got is comments about human nature by tent.
Try looking at the world in terms of corruption, and you will have your answer. By looking at ideologies you will only see the illusion of terms that are placed in front of you to deceive you of the underlying reality of existence. Is the puppet really dancing by itself, or is there a guy behind the curtain pulling the strings? 
- If self Miss-Use is everywhere and no one is able to escape it, what does that tell you?
I think some people can escape it. Animals have in many cases escaped it, basically.
Some animals self destruct sometimes, but humans are nature’s un-natural animal.
Animals haven’t escaped anything. They pillage murder rape, cheat and steal just like us humans do. Some have even been known to suicide and get drug addicted.
I do think much of the mass is victim, but hardly innocent, whatever that would mean. And rather dangerous. Sort of like one’s own teeth during a seizure but all the time ready to seize. I suppose one could view them as pre-good and evil, rather than trans good and evil and in this way innocent. Might be better to view them as carriers of various viruses.
Ignorance is by no means equivalent to Innocence.