They are movies with depth, but what is the philosophy intended in these. Other than brains in the vat, I dunno what to get out of it. Is it patriotism or to enjoy freedom. Is it social commentary. Just curious about the depth and philosophy. Good movies. I like the first two especially the second movie. The third isn’t the greatest. Still very interesting all of them.
Although philosophy is a great component of those movies, I think the message is about the technological threat that the future poses for humans. I think most movie goers look at the special effects and say wow, instead seeing what tech advances could lead to, like being trapped in a virtual environment.
Like Nanobug said, I think this is about the relationship between machine and man, or rather man and his imagination since the machines are man’s creation, and consciousness of man, and through proxy, his creation.
The movie’s also about happiness, I think. It is said that the first matrix built by the machines failed because it fulfilled all the human’s desires. It was too good. People could not believe it. The second was too bad, and the third matrix the people were given the illusion of choice, in that they were told if they choose one way instead of another, they could get out of the matrix, but they would still be in a partition of the matrix, i.e. Zion. So they hit on is determinism and the myth of free will or choice.
There’s love between a program, Neo, and a human.
And then there’s the biggie, meaning. Purpose, or the lack thereof. Smith after having lost his purpose as an agent seeks to end it all. Neo’s purpose was to destroy Zion once it’s numbers were great enough that it could pose a threat to the system, but through the matrix fucking up again Neo strays from his purpose. On second thought, perhaps indeterminability is a message from the matrix instead of determinism, since after 6 tries the matrix still does not…get…I’m bored.
I am depressed to see the responses I am seeing on a philosophy forum.
The philosophical point of the movie is the core of all philosophy. The movie draws on the questions asked by Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Kant, Nietzsche, Sartre, Sellars, Nozick, Quine and many others.
What can I know? What should I do? What may I hope for? What is happiness? What is the mind? What is real? What is freedom? Do we have freedom? Is artificial intelligence possible? …
The most important question asked, do you want the blue pill or the red pill? If you take the red pill, then you will see how far down the rabbit hole goes. You as a viewer are being asked, do you want philosophy or entertainment? Do you as a viewer have the same important question that Trinity tells Neo. What is the matrix? Or what is philosophy? Do you want the blue pill or red pill? If you want to be entertained take the blue pill return and enjoy the movie. If you want the red pill, wake up and open your eyes to the fundamental concepts of philosophy because most are about to be addressed.
nobody is dismissing the philosophy, just highlighting the fact that modern day cornerns of technology are the vehicle for such cave like metaphors. Worst is anyone who likes the movie for the action or special effects.
Personally, though, if you love the philosophy, but think nothing of the tech or progress, then you’ve really missed the point.
If you love philosophy then you will realize the tech or progress was insignificant to the exploration of the major branches of metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, aesthetics, philosophy of religion, philosophy of the mind and political philosophy. The direct correlation to the story of Jesus was unavoidable, backed by the first one being released on Easter weekend. You will also see the correlation to the most untold story of Socrates life.
You’re basically saying it doesn’t matter what happens in society as long as we keep the tradition of thinking about realness and the nature of reality. You are making a minimal situation out of the fact that Virtual Reality will one day be perfected to the point of taking children out of nature and trapping them in artificial situations. Who cares what you think if you dont apply it to change? Or let me guess, you think progress, as positive as it sounds, is inevitable? Bomb another one.
No, as an example I believe they demonstrated metaphysics very profoundly. When Neo came out of Plato’s cave allegory, he was faced with the very nature of metaphysics. The fundamental categories were the real and unreal. The movie identified and investigated these categories and found them to be irreducible, irreconcilable and mutually exclusive. The resolution in overcoming this illusion was not achieved by collapsing the unreal into the real. But rather distinguishing between the two of them and destroying the unreal world.
which we are headed for, an unreal world. Do you view the movie as a warning or just something to ponder over? is it just another cave for you?
I take it as a warning and base my awareness around it. Do you totally ignore the ramifications of tech just so you can dig deep on your own personal terms?
I view the movie as Philosophy 101. It teaches the basics of philosophy unlike any other tool I have ever seen. It teaches you how to develop every major branch. How each branch functions, how each branch is properly applied and how each branch correlates with the other logically. It incorporates almost every concept brought forth by all major philosophers in our history of philosophy.
Dude, my point is, yeah, philosophy, I get it, the movie makes you think, but you’re mentally masterbating over it, while society is implementing devices to depend on. In the VR world are you gonna pad around and say wow, I get to actually BE socrates? You have a way of avoiding my questions and answering nothing.
Seriously, VR is a threat to our identity and our perceptions, and you’re acting like the thought process is the only thing that matters.
They could have done the matrix as a western and you would of been happy just ponder the same questions. Dont you see how wrong that is?
No, I do not see anything wrong with that. I have written over a dozen different essays and theses’ on the topic of virtual themes from the movie, ranging from the paradox in reality as represented in the movie to the mixed genre in the film (which makes your claim about being a western false) to escaping the virtual reality a victory for humanity or technology to the existential authenticity in the movie. Which of these or many more do you specifically want to discuss? This is only on the topic of virtual reality, what about the topics of skepticism, morality (especially Cypher’s response), death, fate, freedom, foreknowledge, Buddhism mirror reflection (is the spoon not really there), pluralism, Kant (being the one), two sides of perversion, reality can be stimulated or Marxism and the alienation of the worker?
You are speaking in such broad terms of a film that covered so much in great detail. Therefore that is why I was speaking on the generalization of the film. If you want to discuss one, pick a specific topic and I will gladly discuss.
I always took the main message of the films, the first one at least anyway, to be freedom. Essentially you are sbeing offered the chance to live a free but hard life by taking the red pill, or to live an enjoyable but unfree life by taking the blue pill. It is asking Neo, and the viewer, what value they place on freedom. The fact it is machines that are control us is incidental, it could be giant coconuts controlling us, and the main message would be the same.
It certainly does give rise to other questions though, but I think this is the main one. Also an interesting side question, as Cypher says, is ‘ignorance bliss’ when it comes to freedom?
They missed a scene at the end of the third one- when Neo beats Agent Smith all the Agent Smiths should turn into Neos.