The Money System Is The Root of All Religious Evil

[JennyHeart]

From http://www.heartparty.org/The%20Foundational%20Problem.htm.

You may consider it a small atonement for my supposedly devilish behavior.

Enjoy:

Religious intolerance is the basis for some of humanity’s greatest tragedies. Great wars have been fought in the name of religion. Millions have died; indeed entire populations have been exterminated, in the name of religion.

The craziness bread by religious intolerance can again be traced to the Money System. The Money System’s constant threat on our life, coupled with the actual damage it perpetrates on us via our family members and other authority figures, makes us experience a lack of love and a spiritually painful disconnection from the universe.

Sometime soon after the Money System came into being, so did religion.

Religion helps us experience reconnection between our self and the origin of our being. Religion helps us re-socialize by creating a pseudo family of like values, which we hope is less dysfunctional than our family of origin (but usually isn’t less dysfunctional). We hope that such a pseudo family would give us the sense of a “loving” family we may not experience in our natural family. Religion also functions as a sanitarium, where people can (supposedly) go to heal from damage, with protection against further damage from the Money System. Religion attempts to lessen the anxiety of premature death at the hands of the Money System by comforting us with thoughts of a potentially heavenly afterlife. And religion attempts to coerce “good” (supposedly non-damaging) behavior out of us by hitting us with everything from natural family guilt to threats of “fire and brimstone”.

Thus religion developed as a coping defense against the ravages of the Money System.

Religion was a spiritual fortress; religion was a place to hide.

But not long after it developed, religion, too, was invaded by the Money System.

Religion, like all organizations, needed things, and things could only be obtained directly or indirectly with money. Since religion was not a naturally occurring phenomenon (like family of origin), and since it exists outside of our body, its formation was via mental activity, and such activity is owned by the Money System.

Religions began to legalize their values into rules of thought and behavior. The mind began “innocently” to codify religious values for purposes of power, protection and presentation, thereby creating doctrine, which functioned to reduce the activity of the human soul in religious practice.

People became frightened as their religious leaders pushed the religious doctrine, doctrine that naturally could not fit the religious experience of many. Religions fragmented into denominations and completely new religions, weakening the power of religion against the Money System.

Politicians, seeing the value in organized religion to control the masses, seduced religious leaders to their causes. Money via donations had crept its way into the church. With money came its damage, and religious leaders and practitioners succumbed to more aberrant behavior within the church.

As the Money System grew in its power to damage, people became more and more “addicted” to their religion as a defense. The strength of this addiction compelled practitioners to experience other religions’ doctrine as a threat on their culture, pocketbook and/or their lives. Political leaders needed to exert little effort to compel people to go to war for their benefit. They just exhorted the real, imagined or contrived “evils” of the enemy’s religion and that was usually sufficient motivation.

Today, religions are constantly at odds. Each one controls its members, who care little about personal individuation and mostly about “hiding” from the Money System and the truth of its damage.

The vast majority of church leaders spend more energy on donations and administration than on the lives of the people in their care. And the Money System uses religion for its benefit however and whenever it wishes.

Yet, people still experience their religion both as a hiding place from their family of origin damage and a defense against the “raw” Money System in the “secular” world, albeit this experience is mostly unconscious.

Understandably, they experience any form of threat to their “defense” with intolerance. They would rather denigrate and even destroy others and the religions of others than become conscious regarding the truth about their own damage, how they use their own religion, and about the damage-inflicting Money System within which live all practitioners of all religions.

The truth is that the Money System is destroying us, and that those who hide from the Money System in religion hide in the way that works best for them. And that “religiously” hurting someone because of his/her religion – or lack thereof – is an act of misdirected abuse similar to that which one received as a child in the first place.

Nevertheless, the truth remains – that beating each other up because of our religious differences, and hiding from that which we together must fight and destroy and which we can fight and destroy – the Money System – is ultimately an act of mentally centered cowardice.

[phawkins1988]

How can we fight and destroy the money system, Jenny?

It seems to me that in a world of finite resources, one will always need a medium of exchange (even in a world with no property, one would still need tokens or something if people were not all self-sufficient). Would this medium of exchange, whatever form it takes (be it dollars, pounds, or magic beans) not be a de facto money?

Apologies for only picking up on a relatively small part of the argument you linked to - I agree though that religous violence will often be motivated by non-religious causes.

EDIT: If I’m misunderstanding your use of the phrase ‘money system’ then I apologise. If that is the case, could you please clarify?

[Dan1 (Dan~)]

Blaming the money system is just more scape-goating.

It’s like sending a knife to jail after a murder.

The root of all religious evil = HUMANITY.

[JennyHeart]

@phawkins1988

How can we fight and destroy the money system, Jenny?

It seems to me that in a world of finite resources, one will always need a medium of exchange (even in a world with no property, one would still need tokens or something if people were not all self-sufficient). Would this medium of exchange, whatever form it takes (be it dollars, pounds, or magic beans) not be a de facto money?

Apologies for only picking up on a relatively small part of the argument you linked to - I agree though that religous violence will often be motivated by non-religious causes.

EDIT: If I’m misunderstanding your use of the phrase ‘money system’ then I apologise. If that is the case, could you please clarify?

I detect no misunderstanding.

As to how will we fight the Money System, I can suggest ways, but what matters is that we do fight it, and soon, … and win.

Losing that battle will cost humanity its existence.

[JennyHeart]

@Dan~

Blaming the money system is just more scape-goating.

It’s like sending a knife to jail after a murder.

The root of all religious evil = HUMANITY.

Then if humanity is the root of all evil, humanity should die as punishment, right Dan?

Then there would be no more evil.

You forget, Dan, that the sin and the sinner are not the same.

People can be damaged by sin to become sinners.

If you heal the sinners and eliminate the cause of sin, we are allowed to live.

Better is to identify the cause of sin and eliminate that than to throw the baby out with the bathwater as Revelation cowardly “decrees”.

[phawkins1988]

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

How can we fight and destroy the money system, Jenny?

It seems to me that in a world of finite resources, one will always need a medium of exchange (even in a world with no property, one would still need tokens or something if people were not all self-sufficient). Would this medium of exchange, whatever form it takes (be it dollars, pounds, or magic beans) not be a de facto money?

Apologies for only picking up on a relatively small part of the argument you linked to - I agree though that religous violence will often be motivated by non-religious causes.

EDIT: If I’m misunderstanding your use of the phrase ‘money system’ then I apologise. If that is the case, could you please clarify?

I detect no misunderstanding.

As to how will we fight the Money System, I can suggest ways, but what matters is that we do fight it, and soon, … and win.

Losing that battle will cost humanity its existence.

But, given that a medium of exchange is necessary in an economy with finite resources (every economy ever!), and that medium of exchange is de facto money, how can we fight the money system?

How can we fight something that is necessary?

[JennyHeart]

@phawkins1988

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

How can we fight and destroy the money system, Jenny?

It seems to me that in a world of finite resources, one will always need a medium of exchange (even in a world with no property, one would still need tokens or something if people were not all self-sufficient). Would this medium of exchange, whatever form it takes (be it dollars, pounds, or magic beans) not be a de facto money?

Apologies for only picking up on a relatively small part of the argument you linked to - I agree though that religous violence will often be motivated by non-religious causes.

EDIT: If I’m misunderstanding your use of the phrase ‘money system’ then I apologise. If that is the case, could you please clarify?

I detect no misunderstanding.

As to how will we fight the Money System, I can suggest ways, but what matters is that we do fight it, and soon, … and win.

Losing that battle will cost humanity its existence.

But, given that a medium of exchange is necessary in an economy with finite resources (every economy ever!), and that medium of exchange is de facto money, how can we fight the money system?

How can we fight something that is necessary?

Change the medium … and change the philosophy of its use.

[phawkins1988]

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

How can we fight and destroy the money system, Jenny?

It seems to me that in a world of finite resources, one will always need a medium of exchange (even in a world with no property, one would still need tokens or something if people were not all self-sufficient). Would this medium of exchange, whatever form it takes (be it dollars, pounds, or magic beans) not be a de facto money?

Apologies for only picking up on a relatively small part of the argument you linked to - I agree though that religous violence will often be motivated by non-religious causes.

EDIT: If I’m misunderstanding your use of the phrase ‘money system’ then I apologise. If that is the case, could you please clarify?

I detect no misunderstanding.

As to how will we fight the Money System, I can suggest ways, but what matters is that we do fight it, and soon, … and win.

Losing that battle will cost humanity its existence.

But, given that a medium of exchange is necessary in an economy with finite resources (every economy ever!), and that medium of exchange is de facto money, how can we fight the money system?

How can we fight something that is necessary?

Change the medium … and change the philosophy of its use.

Yes, but if a medium of exchange is necessary, and a medium of exchange necessitates a money system, then it follows that a money system is necessary.

It is feasible that you could have a different money system. The money system in China is clearly different to that in the UK or USA, just as it is different in the latter two there (although the difference is less than in the other example). Yet, you would still have a money system. If my argument holds, then we cannot get rid of a money system.

So - it seems to me that when people claim that we should “fight the money system”, or something like that, they do not actually mean that we should fight all money systems - merely a particular one.

Is that the case here?

[JennyHeart]

@phawkins1988

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

How can we fight and destroy the money system, Jenny?

It seems to me that in a world of finite resources, one will always need a medium of exchange (even in a world with no property, one would still need tokens or something if people were not all self-sufficient). Would this medium of exchange, whatever form it takes (be it dollars, pounds, or magic beans) not be a de facto money?

Apologies for only picking up on a relatively small part of the argument you linked to - I agree though that religous violence will often be motivated by non-religious causes.

EDIT: If I’m misunderstanding your use of the phrase ‘money system’ then I apologise. If that is the case, could you please clarify?

I detect no misunderstanding.

As to how will we fight the Money System, I can suggest ways, but what matters is that we do fight it, and soon, … and win.

Losing that battle will cost humanity its existence.

But, given that a medium of exchange is necessary in an economy with finite resources (every economy ever!), and that medium of exchange is de facto money, how can we fight the money system?

How can we fight something that is necessary?

Change the medium … and change the philosophy of its use.

Yes, but if a medium of exchange is necessary, and a medium of exchange necessitates a money system, then it follows that a money system is necessary.

It is feasible that you could have a different money system. The money system in China is clearly different to that in the UK or USA, just as it is different in the latter two there (although the difference is less than in the other example). Yet, you would still have a money system. If my argument holds, then we cannot get rid of a money system.

So - it seems to me that when people claim that we should “fight the money system”, or something like that, they do not actually mean that we should fight all money systems - merely a particular one.

Is that the case here?

No.

Perhaps you might want to read the entire link I referenced in the original post of this thread.

[btrflykng9]

I have often wished for the value placed on the blessed dollar to be done away with, but it seems any manner of exchange or trade we developed would still result in class divisions, power struggle, and crime.

[JennyHeart]

@btrflykng9

I have often wished for the value placed on the blessed dollar to be done away with, but it seems any manner of exchange or trade we developed would still result in class divisions, power struggle, and crime.

Seems that way … but I believe differently.

[phawkins1988]

@JennyHeart

No.

Perhaps you might want to read the entire link I referenced in the original post of this thread.

I have skim read the link (it is rather long), yet I don’t think it adequately addressed my argument. Yes, it mentioned how the mind is a block to reforming the money system, but I don’t think that helps.

Here’s my argument more formally - which part do you disagree with.

1. Scarcity of economic resources is unavoidable
2. All economies which experience scarcity require a medium of exchange
3. A medium of exchange is de facto money
4. De facto money requires a money system
   5 (from 1 and 4). Therefore, a money system is unavoidable

What do you think?

[JennyHeart]

@phawkins1988

@JennyHeart

No.

Perhaps you might want to read the entire link I referenced in the original post of this thread.

I have skim read the link (it is rather long), yet I don’t think it adequately addressed my argument. Yes, it mentioned how the mind is a block to reforming the money system, but I don’t think that helps.

Here’s my argument more formally - which part do you disagree with.

1. Scarcity of economic resources is unavoidable
2. All economies which experience scarcity require a medium of exchange
3. A medium of exchange is de facto money
4. De facto money requires a money system
   5 (from 1 and 4). Therefore, a money system is unavoidable

What do you think?

Transcend the dominant paradigm.

I know it’s a cliche, but it retains value, and it certainly applies here.

Try this link – it’s not as long … and, it has the answer: http://www.heartparty.org/Heaven%20on%20Earth.htm.

Regardless, I won’t do your homework for you, so I strongly suggest you read all of the long link to – hell, why not start at the beginning: http://www.heartparty.org/.

Enjoy,

I have to go now … to buy groceries.

By the way, when it comes to what is truly valuable, the answer to your questions are not found in simple yes’s and no’s.

The solution is to create a value system based on something we all possess equally and cap its utilization.

[phawkins1988]

Could you please address my argument, Jenny?

Here it is again.

1. Scarcity of economic resources is unavoidable
2. All economies which experience scarcity require a medium of exchange
3. A medium of exchange is de facto money
4. De facto money requires a money system
   5 (from 1 and 4). Therefore, a money system is unavoidable

[Phaedrus]

@Dan

Blaming the money system is just more scape-goating.

It’s like sending a knife to jail after a murder.

The root of all religious evil = HUMANITY.

You know, Dan-squiggle (just where do you find “~” on a keyboard? ), I’d say I agree with that statement completely.

[JennyHeart]

@phawkins1988

Could you please address my argument, Jenny?

Here it is again.

1. Scarcity of economic resources is unavoidable
2. All economies which experience scarcity require a medium of exchange
3. A medium of exchange is de facto money
4. De facto money requires a money system
   5 (from 1 and 4). Therefore, a money system is unavoidable

Asked and answered.

But if you’re looking for yes and no answers only to your paradigmically limited questions, you can answer those yourself – you don’t need my help with that … and I don’t care to step into your mentally limited paradigm and masturbate with you.

[Mr_Predictable]

I can be argued that the money system is evil and controls humans even though it is simply a construct.

The money system, like religion, contains certain ideas that act as a virus in the human mind. The logic of it can insert itself into thoughts covering almost every subject and can be used as an analogy that helps thinking.

So, everything becomes a transaction where the greatest profit is achieved. The ultimate goal is to get more value from others than you paid. This could be in business or relationships.

Back in the days of trade, you could not get more goat than the pair of boats that you made. So, there was a time when people were not profit seekers, but equal value seekers.

[phawkins1988]

@JennyHeart

@phawkins1988

Could you please address my argument, Jenny?

Here it is again.

1. Scarcity of economic resources is unavoidable
2. All economies which experience scarcity require a medium of exchange
3. A medium of exchange is de facto money
4. De facto money requires a money system
   5 (from 1 and 4). Therefore, a money system is unavoidable

Asked and answered.

But if you’re looking for yes and no answers only to your paradigmically limited questions, you can answer those yourself – you don’t need my help with that … and I don’t care to step into your mentally limited paradigm and masturbate with you.

Sorry to have a mentally limited paradigm, but we are discussing an economic issue, and you seem unwilling to engage in an economic debate. My loss, I suppose.

[Kriswest]

Sorry money systems are not evil. It is greed. Profit is not evil , it is greed that is evil. Greed is an addiction emotion, that is why it is considered a sin or an evil. Don’t blame the money system put the blame where it lies. In the inability to control a greedy attitude. I have no problems with profits as long as profits are not harmful. I like profits, I like luxeries. I am not greedy but, since I work hard I would like extra comforts and fun. Will I steal to get that? No, will I over charge? No.

If you are willing to pay what I ask then it is fair, unless I have you over a barrel, then that would be a step towards greed. Removing competion causes greed that is why monopolies and cornering the market are unfair traded practices and in some cases illegal. Look at the cost of your Utilities and fuel costs for your transportation as example of unfair market practices. These costs are high and there is no real reason they should be.
Greed, not money causes this.

[aporia]

Don’t worry phawkins – I’ll step into your limited paradigm and masturbate with you!