The morbidity of a final purpose.

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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Many reject atheism because they think that no purpose is possible in it. Regardless of validity of the claim, it can be somewhat morbid to think that there is no purpose for anything at all. But, would it not be the same if there was a purpose?

A purpose can be defined as an event that we are striving to make happen. The Christian idea of the “meaning of life” is that there’s some big thing all humans are supposed to be created to do, some milestone we were created to achieve. What happens after we achieve our purpose? Are we given another? Let’s say that I’m a kettle, and my ultimate purpose is to make some water boil. I achieve this purpose. What now? Now I’m useless. Now there isn’t a purpose.

The point is, if there was just one purpose, or a finite set of them, after we finish it all, we’ll have no purpose. So the only true contentment would be in an infinite set of achievable purposes, or a finite or infinite set of unachievable purposes. Otherwise, we will eventually come to the point where we have no purpose. Am I coherent?

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Think of man as being like a tree. You grow in preparation for the point when you can bear fruit. Once you start to bear fruit, you continue to bear fruit. Your goodness, when you are perfected, overflows onto others and continues to do so.

A man’s purpose is not a single time event, but a calling which continues throughout his life to the end. He finds his bliss in this, and others find their blessing in him.

Say you are a philosopher. You might have a big time event getting your PhD or getting an academic position. But your calling is to continue being a philosopher for others throughout your life. And this is what brings a man happiness, they say.

Best wishes for finding yours.

mrn

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The only morbidity lies with the people who believe in the afterlife, because whilst the athiest makes the most of the only thing they’ve got, life, and rarely thinks about death, the thiests’ lives, thoughts, hopes and dreams are dominated by death since they cannot accept that death means death, thus they obsess over it rather than accept total oblivion.

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That’s what I was saying, mrn. I wasn’t saying that there is one purpose for which we work towards, and that can be completed. I was saying that the idea that there is one is almost as morbid as saying that there is no purpose at all. So, in order to be happy, we can never be “finished” or lay back and say that we’ve accomplished all there is to be accomplished. There will always be things we don’t know, but everything unknown can eventually be known. It’s fractal, kinda. From each answer springs a question. If it were not so, if everything could be known, it would be as bad as saying that not everything can be known.

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I agree. I would even venture to say that I think it would be worse.

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Ahh… Agreement. How wonderful.

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That is why the Purpose is to Learn, As everything can never all be Known. So in this you will forever be acomplishing your purpose.

“That” is the Beuty of an Infinite Universe.

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I’m glad I agree with you, finally, Watcher. Or that you agree with me. I’m glad we’re in agreement.

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The funny thing is “that” is what I have been saying all along and trying to show with each and every argument or side I took in them.

But most would rather debate and argue then search for and see the meaning behind the word’s.

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Well Watcher, I’m starting it again, but here are my thoughts on clarity of writing.

It depends on your purpose. If your purpose is to make yourself feel smarter than other people, and you feel you can only accomplish this by having them not understand something you understand, you should write cryptically. But if your purpose is to spread an idea, then you should write as clearly as possible, so people can understand and accept your idea. If your purpose is to perfect an idea, then you should write clearly, because people have to understand what you’re saying before they can find errors in it. So really, unless you’re just on this site for an ego boost, you should be speaking as clearly as possible, and the words should be the meaning. There should be no meaning for us to grope at or search for, it should be right there in plain view. You shouldn’t be trying to hide it with fancy words, cryptic phrases, or mystery. It makes sense that, even if an idea is hard for others to understand, you should try and make it as understandable as possible. Remember your audience, and customize the words to fit the audience. Glory glory hallelujah is fine for a church, but if you’re speaking to atheists you’re going to want to use logic.

The reason I’m saying all this, is because I get the feeling when I read your posts that you don’t really want me to understand what you are saying. For an example of a person who was like that, look up all the posts by a person named “iman”. Then, try and figure out what his purpose was in being here. Was it to make other people understand? Or was it to make himself feel smart?

The point is, there shouldn’t be any “meaning behind the words”; the words should speak for themselves. If the meaning isn’t clearly expressed by the words you’ve got, use some more. It never hurts to clarify.

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The thing is what I am trying to explain, most of the time can only be taught through experiance, While yes, You may understand me other’s (As you’ve seen) clearly do not, So in trying to make my simplified idea’s more Clear they become severly more integrated in complexity and variance.

But no I have no need to feel smarter than anyone and no ego about it, Im a Sociopath so what other’s think or want does’nt really matter to me.

(I would feel the same Pushing a babey off the railroad tracks to save it as I would watching it die and splater across the ground.)

The diference is my oppinion of what is Honerable and moral and what is not. And the Creede I follow. Hence Action’s above word’s.

I am here to learn, Both what is on the surface and what is in there unconciouse mind and how it work’s (Beyond what I already know).

Most of what I say in complexity is designed to triger certain thought pattern’s or ilicite and incite responses in the individuale I am talking to and Hopefuly enable them to think in a broder spectrum That way when I say somthing like:

The Universe is infinite.

I dont have someone Agree with that, than come back and say somthing can not exist or does exist but if it does can not.

When by agreeing with an infinite Universe You also agree that all thing’s can exist and not exist simaltaniously.

Does that make since?
Tried to make it as simple and clear as possible, I think I failed though…

Yes I agree that word’s should be simple and speak for themselve’s. But it’s not only the words you have to consider but the interpretation by the one reading them.

Example:
The cat run’s.

While yes this can only have one meaning (Depending on the subject at hand), Say:

God is the truth, Or

Your purpose is to learn.

Could bring up many, many diferent interpretation’s. (depending on what each of those sentances means to you Personaly.

Philosophy is never clear and maintaining and proveing ones point is usuely pointless as the debate is to learn from each other not to prove another is wrong or right.

I also think in warped logic, Partly because my mind thinks in a metaphyscial manner or thought pattern. Seeing the big picture while haveing trouble identifying some of the underlineing pieces and interpretation’s (Yes I just admited to a weakness, Dont Die)

The point of my letter’s is to MAKE the think. Not to just give them the answer.

Hence my convoluting conundrum’s. :laughing:

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Stimulation of creativity = art_for_observation.

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No, many reject Atheism because is does nothing, it answers nothing and technically is nothing. As far as I know no one including me thinks that Atheism does not believe in any Purpose, at least that’s what I’ve come to learn, it however believes only in pure relativity without any reference, which is nonsensical. IOW, Atheism from most of the replies I get believes in man made Purpose only but cannot explain why the strict laws of nature and survival would allow this to mutate into humans specifically and what this has to do with survival.

Overcomplicated with far too much drama. Its very simple but you don’t wish to entertain the idea so why keep asking? The Purpose is Love and separation, if you cannot at least make a good case as to why this cannot be possible then why go any further, the way I see it you are at a roadblock in logic.

There you go again comparing living to inanimate, this is not a valid analogy, not even close, why do you keep doing this and then you marvel at its perfect outcome as if it explains conclusively that no Purpose exists. See what happens when you try finding an analogy of two different living, intelligent entities to make that same point. Purpose is only relevant to intelligent aware entities, no rocks or teakettles. Remember Purpose denotes design and design denotes intelligence so only intelligent beings who are aware of their existence and God (if there is a God) can have Purpose if there is any such thing as Purpose.

No, again you miss the possibility of an eternal Purpose, does Love ever stop or can it be completed? If it does is it still Love?

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Kingdaddy, I have read half way through your thread and stopped. There is no point as I see it in responding, not because you will prove me wrong, but because your incessant and impudent attempts at agitating me will make me do things I would rather not. Bye bye. Please refrain from posting on any of my other threads, as your presence is not welcome for the following reason:

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. That’s exactly what I had said. You reject anything anybody who does not share your viewpoint says, you have no understanding of the concept of purpose at all, and frankly, make that point glitteringly obvious by skating around the issue with your annoying attempts at provoking me into calling you a dumb-fuck shit-eater. If you were an open-minded, honest intellectual, you would have agreed with me right away, as the above quote is exactly what I was saying.

Compare with my quote:

If you had any desire to learn, any wish to have honest debate, any purpose other than to piss off people who don’t believe the same things you do, you wouldn’t have missed the point of my thread so blatantly and intentionally.

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Boo, hoo, cry me a river. Seriously don’t be such a cry baby, I am not attacking you in any way. I am only giving my thoughts on this subject simply because I have great passion in this topic and have given proper support to my ideas and only ask that others do the same for proper rebuttal. Just because you can’t is no reason to throw a fit. Life is tough and you may find that you don’t have the strongest will in the room all the time, something we all had to experience at least once in life.

Compare with my quote:

You plainly said either infinite achievable purposes or finite/infinite unachievable purposes, you may think that you said the same since you seem to have covered all the bases and every possible answer which in its self is disingenuous as you cannot possibly believe them all. You must pick a side, you cannot ride the fence with these safe cover all your bases ideas. And your ideas of Purpose are self-supporting without logical examples to back it up.

Now I will reiterate again how my idea of Love is the sole Purpose and is different then your universal cover all bases answer. Love is an achievement in its self, its not unachievable it’s a work in progress and bears fruit constantly as you abide in it. Love is a separate entity and not an idea or thought or thing we do, its an agreement between two souls and has instant rewards and never ceases or is completed yet is still fulfilling during the process.

Love is literally God himself so it is not a goal to reach it is life, without Love there is no human life. Love is what we humans are all about and as I said before try finding any happiness or will to live in a vacuum of solitude, without others it is impossible to have a will or reason to live, nothing you do has meaning and you cannot care for something if you cannot share it.

See I pick a side and stick to it, I am trying to show how this can be the only possibility, your trying to show how all possibilities exist simultaneously and you cannot prove that, no one can. Evidently you’ve been poisoned by Watcher because this is his stance on everything and I’ve never seen this from you before. Watchers old “all things are true and possible” have already been addressed and I think I’ve nailed him down to a corner with the fact that we can see and live in a world of laws and boundaries and those laws must have a master reference to which he has no replies to. So I would be careful going down that road as I have much more to show how this is not a possibility according to the reality of this world and life.

If you agree then just say so, but your rebuttals certainty don’t look like they agree, so make a point, pick a side and stand for it on your own.

The problem is yours not mine, your pissed because you cannot fight for your ideas and feel like your winning, maybe that your problem, this isn’t about winning, its about showing and spilling out all your logic and connected thoughts on a subject and allow anyone in the community to scrutinize any of these ideas with their connected logic to prove your foundation. If your foundation is weak a truly open mind should crave to know this so he can strengthen it, so maybe you should question your own reasons for being here instead of being angry at me.

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Bye bye, go away. Your non-feedback is not welcome here.

As for my having “covered all the bases”, I don’t understand. I did not “cover all the bases”, because I ruled out the “base” of a finite set of achievable purposes. I narrowed it down. No, I did not explicitly state that I believe in your notion of “Love” with a capital L, but I did state that I believed that it was possible, that it was a possible solution.

Show me the place in my OP where I said that this was not possible. Unless you believe in a finite set of achievable purposes, I have not said anything about you. You shouldn’t be affected.