The new police state just rolls along

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

The united states supreme court just decided that
the police armed with search warrants can just walk
into a person’s home without knocking or any warning
of any kind. Personally I hope a few cops get hit on
the head with a baseball bat. If you enter my house
without asking, I am going to hit you with my trusty
baseball bat and ask questions later. And I hope others
follow my lead. The cops should never, NEVER, be
allowed to enter some one’s house without knocking
and identifying themselves as cops. But the constitution
doesn’t exist anymore anyway. The village idiot has
effectively destroyed it. Ah, who needs rights anyway.
Only lame-oh communist want rights. Every single day
we come closer to a dictatorship. Welcome to the
21st century.

Kropotkin

2

armed with search warrants…

why I thought you’d love that, having to go to a judge first.

suprizing criminals before they can destroy evidence… terrible.

criminals for democRATS today!!

-Imp

3

Impenitent: armed with search warrants…
why I thought you’d love that, having to go to a judge first.
suprizing criminals before they can destroy evidence… terrible.
criminals for democRATS today!!

K: read very carefully what I wrote. I did not say one
word about a search warrant. I said they could come
in without knocking. That was my point. And trust
me, a few cops are going to get shot over this.
Entering without identifying yourself, without knocking.
That is wrong and that is what dictatorships do,
enter without knocking. The fact you defends this
doesn’t surprise me. I defend the rights of Americana’s
as defined by the constitution for the simple reason,
they are good idea’s, then and now. Have you been
practicing your Sieg heil. It is only a matter of time given
the radical rights wing attempt to create a new 1,000
year riech. SIEG HEIL. SIEG HEIL. SIEG HEIL.

Welcome to nazi america.

Kropotkin

4

Kropotkin is right this time.

The Village idiot is destroying the constitution as well as the Courts and the liberals. I have always said both parties seek to rule the world they just dissagree on how!

Sure you want to keep your anti Gun stance Kropotkin?

I will possess a gun and it will never be registered! If anyone comes into my home unannounced they better hope I have bad aim so they can escape. And because of the liberal village idiots I am not stupid enough to let a theif live so they can sue me for protecting myself!

The ability to catch a criminal can never outweigh the rights of a citizen!

If the police are allowed this latitude it ONLY GETS ABUSED! PERIOD! PROVEN BY HISTORY TIME AND TIME AGAIN! Its a FACT of unparalleled FACTNESS!

Those who give up freedoms for security GET NEITHER!

5

can you read what you “wrote” or do you think by copying from democRAT blogs makes you look smart?

-Imp

6

Astral: Kropotkin is right this time.
The Village idiot is destroying the constitution as well as the Courts and the liberals. I have always said both parties seek to rule the world they just dissagree on how!

K: well you have part of that right.

A: Sure you want to keep your anti Gun stance Kropotkin?

K: it has been said if the jews had simply fought
back they never would have been in concentration
camps. But that is simply not true. It was the law,
legal laws that put in discrimination’s against the jews,
and legally put them in concentrations camps. It would
not have stopped the laws to have guns, it would not
have stopped them from being sent to concentration camps.
Why? because the jews would have been declared traitors
to the German nation, in modern parlance, terrorist.
It would have changed nothing to have a gun, several guns,
or an entire army. For violence leads to more violence.
An eye for an eye just means everybody is blind.
No, the answer is to stand up now, while we still have a chance.

But I fear its already too late. Neo-nazis, such as chaney,
and the village idiot, have already packed the congress and
the courts. The concentration camps have already been built
in the western part of the country, Nevada, wyoming, Montana.
Soon the they will be filled with “traitors” and “terrorist”
who will be American citizens who oppose the new police state.

A: I will possess a gun and it will never be registered! If anyone comes into my home unannounced they better hope I have bad aim so they can escape. And because of the liberal village idiots I am not stupid enough to let a thief live so they can sue me for protecting myself!

K: Murder is still murder… Protecting your life and killing another.
Mr anti-life. culture of death reeks around you. What other
buzz words can I throw at you? See how easy that is?

A: The ability to catch a criminal can never outweigh the rights of a citizen!
If the police are allowed this latitude it ONLY GETS ABUSED! PERIOD! PROVEN BY HISTORY TIME AND TIME AGAIN! Its a FACT of unparalleled FACTNESS!

K: I agree with you, but you must have a solution that is not
one of civil war or shooting cops. It must be now and it
must be a solution that makes sense within our history.

A: Those who give up freedoms for security GET NEITHER!

K: ben franklin said that, I am not giving up my freedoms for
security. you are, by basing your defense on the possession
of guns. What I talk about is, more then just mindless violence.
It is about the understanding we are giving up our freedoms
for a pretend security, a false security. The evil that faces
us is not criminals, or even the police, but the very actions
of the GOPers, who are trying to create a dictatorship.
A dictatorship of religion (abortion is part of this comprehensive
attack on freedoms, take away abortion and tomorrow they
will take away freedom of the press, oh, wait that is gone
already, they will take away free speech, oh, that is gone too,
freedom of religion, soon, very soon) See how this works.
You are part of the program to take away our rights.
Fighting against abortion, it is simply a means to
take away rights, those who are trying to create a dictatorship
couldn’t care less about abortion, but they do care about
taking away rights. And banning abortion is part of their agenda
to eliminate your rights as an American.
Stand up for freedom of action. Stand up for abortions
and other freedom of choice issues before its too late.

Kropotkin

7

Americans get what they deserve. Americans have been ceding power to the goverment for a long time now. Why we even bother to trust government is beyond me. I guess I was deluded enough to do it at one time, and then I came to the conclusion that all governments increase their power at the expense of the people. It’s almost a natural law.

Besides, people really don’t have “rights” anyway. Those who have power hold the rights, and give them out. Power always trumps rights, and since Americans aren’t willing to fight en masse, then we’ll just have to take it or die or get thrown in jail.

Did you really think a piece of paper written by 18th Century Deists was going to save you? You might as well have written those things on toilet paper. :evilfun:

8

kabinger: Americans get what they deserve. Americans have been ceding power to the goverment for a long time now. Why we even bother to trust government is beyond me. I guess I was deluded enough to do it at one time, and then I came to the conclusion that all governments increase their power at the expense of the people. It’s almost a natural law.

PK: only if we allow them to increase their power.
The power of the people standing en masse cannot be
dismissed. Examples abound even today, but I am
having a hard time even getting people to understand
the current danger. We are the closes we have
ever been to a dictatorship, and yet defenders of
the dictatorships fail to even see the danger, IMP and
Aspacia, for example. It is hard to make them see
the danger the citizens of the U.S. are in right now.
They are blind, and no amount of arguments seems
to convince them.

K: Besides, people really don’t have “rights” anyway. Those who have power hold the rights, and give them out. Power always trumps rights, and since Americans aren’t willing to fight “en masse”, then we’ll just have to take it or die or get thrown in jail.

PK: People have rights. I believe in the constitution.
Not because its old or traditional, or just because I am used to
it, but because it says something very important. It says
we are a nations of laws, we are a nation that supports important
concepts such as freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of press,
freedom of speech. Idea’s I find very important. I favor
am increase in freedoms, not a decrease. I favor abortions
and gay marriage and other rights because they increase the
freedom of our nation. If some are excluded from freedom and
the right to choose, then we are all in danger from losing those
rights we take for granted. I cannot in good conscience take
rights from someone, because someone else can turn around
and take away my rights. so opponents of abortion, the taking
away of rights, means tomorrow their rights may be gone,
for exactly the same reason.

Kropotkin

9

if bush was to declare himself dictator today plainly, he would get stampeded . . . and ousted. He has to do it one step (one right) at a time.

“It is through the illusion of freedom from social determinants…that social determinations win the freedom to exercise their full power… And so, paradoxically, sociology frees us from the illusion of freedom, or, more exactly from the misplaced belief in illusory freedoms” (Pierre Bourdieu, “In Other Words”).

the way to get control is to find a scapegoat, and then use that to justify taking away people’s rights, a little at a time. Don’t let people know they are loosing rights, give them the illusion of freedom, that is what gains power.

the nazis did not throw people into concentration camps as soon as they got in power. First they set up special courts, then they spread propaganda about jews, built a strong army piece by piece, and then justified taking away jews rights one by one, like drivers licence etc and so on, and then after 5 years after gaining power and chipping away at people’s rights enough to get supreme control, . . . then they built concentration camps.

Bush and Co does not want to set up a neo-nazi system , they want to set up a theocracy where one religion is enforced and a country that makes more and more money. So, they are going to take away rights that interfere with that plan, one right at a time. This is the only way to stablize their chances for victory and control their vision until it becomes true.

The good news, as I see it, is that we are always loosing a right here or there or gaining one, and that things could be a lot worse than they are right now, even though we are not really at a great point either, and the GOPers are stomping their feet louder and louder.

Massachusetts is such a revolutionary state. they started the american revolution and a few years ago they said, “fuck you federal theocrats, we are going to marry gay people b/c it is the right thing to do.” Bush and co has a long ways to go still before they can have absolute thocratic rule, I don’t think they can ever really pull it off, but we will surely see.

10

sirswedishmike: if bush was to declare himself dictator today plainly, he would get stampeded . . . and ousted. He has to do it one step (one right) at a time.

K: lets see, one step at a time, check.

Sirs: the way to get control is to find a scapegoat, and then use that to justify taking away people’s rights, a little at a time. Don’t let people know they are loosing rights, give them the illusion of freedom, that is what gains power.

K: gays and people in favor of choice, check.

Sirs: the nazis did not throw people into concentration camps as soon as they got in power. First they set up special courts, then they spread propaganda about jews, built a strong army piece by piece, and then justified taking away jews rights one by one, like drivers licence etc and so on, and then after 5 years after gaining power and chipping away at people’s rights enough to get supreme control, . . . then they built concentration camps.

K: special courts: check, propaganda about gays: check,
strong army: check, chipping away at people’s right at about
5 years: check concentration camps: check

Sirs: Bush and Co does not want to set up a neo-nazi system , they want to set up a theocracy where one religion is enforced and a country that makes more and more money. So, they are going to take away rights that interfere with that plan, one right at a time. This is the only way to stablize their chances for victory and control their vision until it becomes true.

K: a theocracy is a dictatorship of religion.

Sirs: The good news, as I see it, is that we are always loosing a right here or there or gaining one, and that things could be a lot worse than they are right now, even though we are not really at a great point either, and the GOPers are stomping their feet louder and louder.

K: SIEG HEIL, SIEG HEIL, SIEG HEIL.

Sirs: Massachusetts is such a revolutionary state. they started the american revolution and a few years ago they said, “fuck you federal theocrats, we are going to marry gay people b/c it is the right thing to do.” Bush and co has a long ways to go still before they can have absolute thocratic rule, I don’t think they can ever really pull it off, but we will surely see."

K: here I disagree with you. they are so close as to touch
the finish line. I can see the speech where the village idiot
declares himself dictator. It will mention 9/11 about 27 times
in the first paragraph and it will mention how we need to protect
ourselves from terrorist and idiots (like those around here)
will cheer and say “well now I am protected from those
evil terrorist who are trying to take away my freedoms” and
all the while never noticing those precious freedom are already
gone, taken by the very people they trusted to protect them.
but its ok, because you are now safe, RIGHT?

Kropotkin

11

I think we are close to the finish line as well, but I think close is 5 miles, you think it is 5 feet or so. Here is the reason I think we are still 5 miles:

  1. we have the internet still, we are able to have this free from gov’t sensored conversation.

  2. we can leave the country pretty easily, and most can get passports easily. Dictatoriships control this like hell. We are still fairly lax about it.

  3. We can protest and disagree with our leaders without facing jail or other charges . . . usually

However, I agree with you that we need to get back all the rights we are loosing, and there is risk of moving closer to that finish line of dictatorship. Some are trying to sensor internet, some are calling protestors traitors etc, so yeah, we do have things to worry about. And we need to work to change them while we can. Yes, I agree with you on that. . . So what do we do???

I think we need to boycot, boycot and then do some boycoting, and then get others to do some good ol’ boycoting as well.

Protesting gets you in the newspaper, but it rarely changes policy. Since the gov’t and billion dollar companies are married, if you attack the company you also attack the gov’t. If a billon dollar company looses even 5% of sales one year to boycotting, that is millions to them and their shareholders, and then they start to listen.

Americans just forget how damn powerful of boycoting is. In parts of europe radical changes are made every year in social policy, and not from bloody revolution. These changes happen b/c people decide and commit where and where not to spend their money.

Boycotting is the way to change. Money rules, therefore, give as little money to corrupt companies as possible. I’m not saying there is a way to do this perfectly, but you can make a dent, and if enough people make that dent in the same spot, it will crack . . . and then the gov’t/Co will start to listen to demands b/c money is what they want, and they know that cracks can lead to more cracks, and they know better then to ignore that for their own selfish selves.

12

sirswedishmike: we are still 5 miles:

  1. we have the internet still, we are able to have this free from gov’t sensored conversation.

K: they are trying with the Internet bill in congress to control the
Internet. I believe its called the Internet neutrality bill.
Its clear from the canadian terrorist arrest they are monitoring
the Internet quite closely.

  1. we can leave the country pretty easily, and most can get passports easily. Dictatorships control this like hell. We are still fairly lax about it.

K: where exactly could Americans go and still be welcomed?
We are considered a greater threat world wide then Iran and
rightly so and Americans are less popular then Iranians.
Personally, I am seriously considering leaving the U.S…
I think we are doomed.

  1. We can protest and disagree with our leaders without facing jail or other charges . . . usually

K: uh, not really. The last GOP convention in NY, they were
proactively arresting people they thought would protest the
GOP convention. They arrested up to 10,000 people and threw
them in some hellhole near NY.

Sirs: However, I agree with you that we need to get back all the rights we are loosing, and there is risk of moving closer to that finish line of dictatorship. Some are trying to sensor Internet, some are calling protesters traitors etc, so yeah, we do have things to worry about. And we need to work to change them while we can. Yes, I agree with you on that. . . So what do we do???
I think we need to boycott, boycott and then do some boycotting, and then get others to do some good ol’ boycotting as well. "

K: not bad but who do we boycott? We can’t boycott everyone and
its really everyone in the business world who needs to be
boycotted."

Sirs: Protesting gets you in the newspaper, but it rarely changes policy. Since the gov’t and billion dollar companies are married, if you attack the company you also attack the gov’t. If a billon dollar company looses even 5% of sales one year to boycotting, that is millions to them and their shareholders, and then they start to listen.

K: again who exactly do we boycott?
And who would lead this boycott?

Sirs: Americans just forget how damn powerful of boycotting is. In parts of Europe radical changes are made every year in social policy, and not from bloody revolution. These changes happen b/c people decide and commit where and where not to spend their money.
Boycotting is the way to change. Money rules, therefore, give as little money to corrupt companies as possible. I’m not saying there is a way to do this perfectly, but you can make a dent, and if enough people make that dent in the same spot, it will crack . . . and then the gov’t/Co will start to listen to demands b/c money is what they want, and they know that cracks can lead to more cracks, and they know better then to ignore that for their own selfish selves."

K: and still again who?

Kropotkin

13

Woah, Peter. That’s not what the Court just ruled at all. Unless they made two decisions about entering without knocking this week. They ruled that cops can enter without a warrant in an emergency - the case was about breaking up a fight. I am surprised this case even got to the court - that they even heard it.

Did I miss another decision?

14

faust: Woah, Peter. That’s not what the Court just ruled at all. Unless they made two decisions about entering without knocking this week. They ruled that cops can enter without a warrant in an emergency - the case was about breaking up a fight. I am surprised this case even got to the court - that they even heard it.
Did I miss another decision?"

K: yep. here is the link and since I routinely fuck it up
here is the place where I found this, “CNN law center”

cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/scotu … index.html

give that a whirl.

Kropotkin

15

Ohhhhh. My bad googling. I think this will set a good precedent when it is used to justify busting a crackhead, and a bad one when used on more savory characters. Don’t think that the court doesn’t know this. If little old ladies start getting busted in on, things will change with the next case. I promise.

16

faust: Ohhhhh. My bad googling. I think this will set a good precedent when it is used to justify busting a crackhead, and a bad one when used on more savory characters. Don’t think that the court doesn’t know this. If little old ladies start getting busted in on, things will change with the next case. I promise."

K: I foresee the next taunt from kids at some elementary school,
you can’t Google, you can’t Google. In my day, it was 4 eyes,
4 eyes.

anyway, I don’t think this ruling sets a good precedent in
any way, shape or form. I think it just allows cop more
open season on citizens. The cops have already gone
to war on the citizens of the U.S. especially minorities.
We need to tighten the rules on cops, not make
it easier for them to harass citizens. I think cops need to
be held more accountable for their actions, not less
accountable. I want public officials to be more accountable
for their actions, not less accountable.

Kropotkin

17

well for starters you can boycot oil companies who get oil from the middle east. do some reasearch, some companies do not get their oil form the middle east. This is not always possible, but it is at times. Ride the bus or car pool once in a while.

Boycott any company who supports or gives money to the GOP. There are many companies who do not support or give money to the GOP, support those companies when you have an option.

I am not saying that you should be 100% straight laced boycotter to change things. That is too much to ask people, and painfully obvious that no one can do it perfectly. All I am saying is learn which companies are the worst tied to the gov’t or other oppressiveness and boycot when possible. That is all I am saying, I am not being extreme saying move into the woods and eat grass, no, I am just saying learn some basics and then do what you can.

talking about what sucks in the world is not going to change things, we have to act on what we got, and in this country that means controling our own wallets when we can.

18

You see, Peter, I have a different view of cops. And, yes, I have been arrested. Actually, I have been convicted. But I think cops generally are not trying to harrass people. I think some do sometimes. I have not noticed an upsurge in police power abuse. Maybe I do not read the papers enough. But the results are what I am concerned with.

It’s the same as with the wiretapping. Where is the abuse? Not one single journalist has come up with anything? Do you think that this is really possible, if abuses are happening? They got Delay. They got Nixon. They got a lot of big hitters. They can’t get some FBI guy?

19

They have a warrant, that’s all that matters to me.

If you’ve got drugs or anything else illegal you wont have time to hide it. You wont have time to get your pistol. Police had to wait a very, very long time before they came in with a warrant, that’s plenty of time for a clever criminal to get away.

20

This is how the states got so far, survived so long. The media is the first part of the security. It makes a big fuss about the littlest things. The Canadian and American news both do this, make a big deal out of stuff. The difference is, the Canadians go “Oh shiiit, this is very bad! Somebody better do something!” and repeat this over and over and over to eachother, while the Americans go “Oh shiiit, this is very bad! C’mon guys, lets go do something!”.

Which is the second part of the defense, which we Canadians lack. It is the will do (!@#$-)anything about it (other than tell everybody how bad it is). Americans have had, until recently, this will. Canadians have never had it (duh, because we’re the ones who didn’t want to fight the Brits. All the spineless ones fled here). What suprised me is that nobody seems to be doing anything. If it’s as bad as you say, Mr. Kropotkin, why aren’t you out in the streets yelling about it? Why haven’t you guys impeached the preach yet? If this guy is such an incredibly stupid, ignorant, inbred, totalitarian dick, why haven’t you been able to raise enough people to even get your efforts in the papers? Are you even trying? Us Canadians’ hands are tied. All we can do is whine wittily (which is why we produce so many comedians).

What appears to be happening is the Canadianization of the United States of America. You’re becoming whining, lazy, and sometimes apathetic Canadians, much like myself. Michael Moore is working his magic on you. He encourages Americans to look at Canada as a model. Don’t you dorks! The only reason we’ve survived this far is that we have you to protect us and such a great natural resources to people ratio. It’s like Mac OS versus Windows. The only reason Mac OS has “better” security is that mal-doers don’t target it because of its small user-base, because it is worse than Windows operated PCs. The only reason our natural-resources to people ratio is so high is that our management isn’t worth half a cow’s patty (ok, somewhat more than half a cow-patty, but less than yours) so we have few people.

For godssakes repent your Canadian ways! Have a Civil War or something! Revolt against the theist opressor! Stop whining and start doing! Or else you’ll end up like us!