Do you believe this to be true? That every time we feel pleasure we feel it because we have committed an act which directly or indirectly perpetuates our life or the life of our offspring.
Tobacco. Alcohol. Heroin.
You tell me.
In general, things that feel good to us are good for us and our offspring, though…or at least were. Our love of sweets, for example. Sugar used to be scarce, and it’s a great source of energy, so when they came in contact with it our ancestors ate it up. Now, with an abundance of sugar, we often get carried away. Our sweet tooth which could have provided us with a little bit of fat to help us through a rough patch now ends up as obesity in a world where hunger is not an issue.
Tobacco, alcohol and heroin can all be explained.
Tobacco and drugs we get relief from rather than pleasure(although probably you get pleasure from some drugs but that’s because it directly stimulates your body to release dopamine or whatever it is that causes pleasure, right?). Nicotine in cigs and other drugs cause addiction and you feel pain if you don’t take them, so when you take them it’s that the pain goes away not that you get pleasure.
The explanation for alcohol is similar. I think that you get pleasure from it because you forget your troubles. It could also be some kind of a chemical reaction.
You act as if people are addicted to substances before the first use. In the initial stages of addiction, people indeed use drugs for pleasure. Cigarette smokers don’t start off at a pack a day with withdrawals if they miss a dose. Similarly, most people use alcohol in moderation for its mood enhancing effects without ever having to utilize it as a crutch for relief.
I think most people start drinking and smoking at a young age, when it’s considered cool. So, maybe youngsters get pleasure from it because they know it will impress others of their age including the opposite sex. As for those who drink alcohol in moderation, maybe it’s because it makes you braver so you feel better about your self.
My point is, given what we know from biology, the theory that genes just want to replicate themselves as much as possible seems to fit very well.
I like the above explanation, but perhaps it’s no good, perhaps I’m just to stupid to get it right, but the idea that we only exist so the genes that made us can spread better seems to fit very well.
I’m just starting to read about evolutionary biology so maybe I’m missing something.
i think perpetuate is a bit strong, enhance perhaps but, we are too aggressive and fundamentally proned to doing dangerous things to be only concerned with perpetuating life. The enhancement of life would be closer.
What do you mean by enhancement?
But isn’t reason for the aggression the same as among animals? For establishing the alfa male.
I don’t think that everything we do is geared towards spreading our genes, but I think we are controlled by pain and pleasure into spreading our genes. Sometimes we might do something that is counter productive, but that only happens when our body thinks that that action is productive.
I think we have reason(and the body) to serve the goals of the genes.
I was under the impression that this was the generally accepted theory.
Like I said I’m only just learning about this, here’s what I’m going at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfish_gene
Perhaps I ought to have posted this in the natural sciences forum.
Well sure qwertz, all of that is true but, those that study the basic chemicals and genes of life tend to forget one very important aspect of human life… we are sentient and social. We have evolved past living in caves and thinking some earth spirit entered a female’s body and got her pregnant.
We are sentient creatures that have gone past needs for living right into comforts. The basic animal is still at needs. We are not. When humans discovered they could have entertainment by stories ,by ingesting fermented plants or smoking some substance. We just sort of opened the human eye to , “there is more to living than just life”
Entertainment is enhancement of life. Drugs are entertainment. Games are entertainment. etc…
i have wondered similar thingsabout the motivations of man. but i concluded that comfort is paramount. after we assure ourselves of survival it then becomes how comfortable can we be
darn double post
But comfort and entertainment are pleasure.
The explanation for art (in all it’s form, including storytelling) , I think, is that it’s an exercise. When animals play they do it to practice skills they need to survive. I think this is why we have art. It flexes our imagination, creativity and intelligence, all of which are tools that have been used to put us at the top of the food chain.
But, qwertz, we have gone past the beginnings of why it started, we are now into why it continues. Survival started it, but, it has gone past survival. There are plants that you can raise from just a root. The root grows into a plant, it is no longer just a root. This is the same thing, something does not always remain as it began. If you mire yourself in what was you can’t see what is. What was is not nearly as important as what is, unless you wish to begin the process again. And I really hope no one wants to do that, I like my indoor plumbing and waking up to a caveman next to me 
, Oh wait yea he does resemble one in the mornings,Nevermind 
That’s so mean 
I’m not saying that people think like this: “Ok I’m gonna go order a pizza because I need some energy, than I’m gonna go paint the Mona Lisa. That will win me the admiration of my peers and establish me as the most creative and talented guy around thus establishing me as the alfa male, which in turn will score me some chicks and I’ll get to spread my genes.”
We may think that our motivations are various and many but what it comes down to is pleasure. We seek pleasure, and our body gives us pleasure when we do things that serve it’s purpose, so we use our mind to best serve the genes that make up our body and brain because we know that it will pay us in pleasure. And what the genes want is to make more of their kind.
Or at least that’s what I think.
comfort can be described as necessary so we don’t A: kill ourselves through numbness and B: kill ourselves out of torment.
we are speaking of motives, not tools.
I’m not following you, what do you mean by numbness? Boredom? As for killing ourself out of torment, I’m guessing you mean killing ourself because our situation is too hard. Sleeping in the park and that kind of stuff, right?
I’m not sure what you’re going at here. I am arguing that pleasure (comfort is pleasure. It’s just a word to specify what kind of pleasure. Comfort, amusement, orgasm and so on are just words which describe a different kind of pleasure.) is a motivational tool. That we are controlled by it into doing what our genes want us to do.
I would say that we want to in some way BETTER our life more than we want to continue it. Smokers smoke because they enjoy it. Most know it will take years off their lives. They are choosing to make their lives more enjoyable for them instead of longer.
Ask yourself, what does it mean to better our life. The answer is to make it more pleasurable and less painful. Smokers don’t smoke because they enjoy smoking. They smoke because it’s painful not to smoke.
I didn’t express myself correctly in my previous post. Comfort is not pleasure but rather removal of pain.
No…smokers smoke because they enjoy doing it. They didn’t start smoking because they were in pain.
To better my life means a lot of things…mostly to make it more enjoyable. Making it more enjoyable would include adding things that make it more fun, and removing anything that hampers that.
Comfort is pleasure…I take great pleasure out of this comfy little chair I’m sitting in…I was in no pain before, but I can really enjoy it.
Like I said, I believe most people start smoking at a young age when it is considered cool. And beside, isn’t it proven that nicotine causes addiction. I don’t know if you’re a smoker or not, but I think that it may appear pleasurable, but it’s actually curbing the pain. Like taking a pebble out of your shoe after it’s been bothering you all day.
I disagree. I think the effect is the same as with smoking. You get a relief because you don’t have to stand anymore. It’s like when you have a small TV but you’re satisfied with it you’re not really longing for a bigger one, but when you get a bigger one you say that’s better.
This is the same thing I said, no?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…WOW…
I’m sorry…but yes, yes it is proven that nicotine causes addiction.
Again, where is the pain BEFORE I start smoking? There isn’t any. If you are arguing that a person who already smokes is “In pain”, then the only logical cause of pain would be the fact that they are addicted and are suffering from withdrawls. Otherwise, they are smoking because they enjoy it.