The Pathology Behind Cosmetics

Let’s step behind the scenes here.

A girl or young woman wakes up. And every morning she feels the compulsion, the need to apply a mask to her face. She cakes on powder, chemicals, clays, lipsticks, and an assortment of color. She hopes that all of this will cause her to become superficially appealing. But, to whom is she attempting to look her best? And, isn’t her best “unnatural”? Isn’t her best, after all, nothing more than a false mask?

I will claim, here, that women do not look “good enough” naturally, because they do not feel “food enough” pathologically. It’s more a mental sickness of their minds, than it is a physical lacking of their faces. Cosmetics and makeup is a compensation for what is lacking or missing entirely. If the majority of the female specie decided, finally, to go “au naturale”, then what % of the female specie would all of a sudden become ugly? 95%? 99.9%?

[size=150]…The premise of this thread, then, is that most women are ugly. And because they are (naturally) ugly, actually need Cosmetics.[/size]

Maybe women are not “suffering from a mental disease” as much as they are telling the truth. Maybe the truth is, they are how they feel. Maybe a “beautiful” girl who does not need makeup, but feels she does, is as ugly as she feels. Maybe her ugliness is mental. And maybe, just maybe, no matter how much makeup she tries to mask herself with every morning, she can never escape this ugliness.

Is this not a feminine form of self-hatred and nihilism? Do these girls, whether they are superficially beautiful in an objective or subjective way, deserve ridicule, bullying, and hatred from others? In other words, does not everybody owe them the truth, which is, not denying the fact they are ugly when they hint towards this, or claim it openly? Shouldn’t a young girl be told she’s ugly, when she already thinks as much of herself? Isn’t ugliness an attitude, first and foremost? Who is anyone to lie to a “beautiful” girl, who feels that she is ugly and “never pretty enough”?

It seems like we have a duty here, to tell the truth, and agree with her, that she is in fact ugly. After all, who are we to argue about what somebody feels?

Women are submissive. They want to look beautiful for your attention.

When you tell them the truth about being ugly, it convinces them that you don’t care about what they’re trying to do.

Since when did men care about what women did?

I can think of one thousand different ways for a woman to express herself, in a way that appeals to a man, or to people in general, that is much more appealing than a clown-face mask applied every morning.

The thing is, I don’t actually buy into the fact that women are doing this “for men”. I believe that women are doing this for themselves, and this need is redirected toward a feeling of self-hatred and nihilism. It is solipsistic. It is a personal, self-referential appeal. The girl or young woman is not actually appealing to men at all.

Here’s another possibility. Maybe women are actually appeaing to other women!!! Maybe this cosmetic ‘game’ is an inner-game of status within female society. Maybe women are attempting to intimidate other women, much less than they are attempting to appeal to men. Because, from my experience, men either “see right through” the mask, or, detest “fakers” in general. And what is more of a “faker” than an ugly woman, trying to conceal her ugliness?

Women are doing it for men just like the women who perform female genital manipulation are doing it for men. Of course other factors play in, and appearing right/attractive to other women is also a factor. But the training is set in place because of where the power lies and what the power has wanted.
And it is a sad thing, not least because of the horrible chemicals in some of that shit.

I don’t think so.

Has a woman ever asked you, personally, whether you want her to wear makeup or not? No woman has ever asked me. And I know of no other men who is asked whether his woman asks him to wear makeup. Because, most men that I know personally, do not want an already-beautiful woman to hide and pervert her natural beauty. In fact, if men are asked, many men will not want (already beautiful) women to wear makeup.

This proves that women are not wearing makeup for men, because they don’t even ask men our opinions, but are in fact, wearing makeup out of their own, personal, selfish pathology. Women are wearing makeup “because it makes me feel better/more confident”. Therefore, wearing makeup is a selfish, narcissistic compulsion, and has nothing in actuality to do with men, or attracting men.

In fact, even though the average woman is ugly, and not comparable to the top 1% of beautiful women, many women who wear makeup, whether they are naturally beautiful or not, shouldn’t be wearing makeup in the first place. It is only a minority of average and ugly women who should.

Don’t confuse what I’m saying here. I do believe that some (average and ugly) women should wear makeup, because I’d rather see a slightly artificial/plastic face than butt-uglies everywhere. But even then, very rarely should women wear makeup. This is coming from a man’s point of view. Most women don’t even ask, or care, about a man’s point of view. Because women are too selfish to ask men, what men want, or act on what men want.

I’ve never asked an employer if I should wear a tie. I doubt the men of wall street ask their employers or their clients if they should spend a lot on their suits.

Part of the idea of make up would be taken away if a woman asked a man that question. But I will bet you they ask their gay male friends. This does not mean they want to look good for them.

I mean, this stuff is put into their heads from childhood. It is so deeply ingrained in them, it is like brushing their teeth. They don’t really need to know who it is for and of course showing everyone that they are ‘right’ as potential mates and sexual objects and romantic partners feels good to them, or at least less bad…

but it is for the men.

There are certainly men like that. But many defintely would prefer it and the older the woman the more pressure if she is in the market or her profession makes it inevitable, which is most professions, but some more than others. A woman looks wrong to people if she does not do this, unfortunately. But the roots of it are about men.

And the women who perform cliterodectomies and take their daughters to the women who do this don’t ask men about it.

That’s what I’m talking about…

But is caking your face with chemical cosmetic goo, that (most) men probably don’t want to see in the first place, similar to brushing your teeth?

Are you saying that wearing makeup for a female is comparable to daily dental hygiene for everybody?

Prove it.

Do women even claim this? How many women have you heard claim that they put on makeup “for men”. Have conducted a science survey and research?

Do you have scientific evidence? Do you prove that women wear makeup, empirically, absolutely, in a science lab, “for men”?

Do you have the data?

You just conflated the argument.

First you said it was “for men”. But now you’re saying it’s (also) “for professions”. So, which is it? Are you going back on your original claim (for men)?

This seems off topic.

Moreno, if I gather some testimony by women who wear cosmetics, who routinely claim “because it makes me feel good” or “because it makes me feel better about myself”, then are you going to go back on your claim that cosmetics is “for men”, and join me investigating other possibilities, such as, women use cosmetics because they hate themselves, solipsisticly, and that women are putting on makeup for women, and not so much “for men”.

Because if women were putting on makeup “for men”, then wouldn’t they at least become smart and intelligent enough, to ask or know or even hint at a clue, as to what men want and prefer?

Because I gotta tell ya man…I think women and females who wear makeup are pretty fucking ugly to do so. First of all, it’s lying. And I don’t like liars. Second of all, rarely does a woman do it with any artistic and appealing quality. They’re unprofessional and not artistic about it. Thirdly, most average and ugly women tend to go way overboard. They just literally slap and slather it on there, as if they were using a bricklaying trowel to mortar a building with.

It looks fucking ugly. And I think it’s (mostly) disgraceful. Even if a woman had genius artistic ability, and really, really improved her image, then I still don’t think a woman should necessarily wear this out in public. It better have a specific purpose. Maybe she’s a pornstar or prostitute, perhaps? That’s my first thought. She’s sleazy. She’s sluttish. She needs the makeup, because she doesn’t have natural beauty. And if she has natural beauty, then she’s scared, frightened, or lacks self-confidence. She “feels ugly”. And this, to me, is actual ugliness. A nautrally beautiful woman who “feels ugly”, convinces me. I agree with her. She is ugly, objectively.

When I say ‘for men’ what I mean is that the tradition arises because of the desires of men, the fact that they have power and what the cosmetics do or are supposed to in relation to those desires and the market.

I do not mean that women think this way, though they often do this also as can be seen in the difference between everyday make up and make up for a date with a new man they are really hopeful about.

Well, I think you are wrong about men in general, though I share your taste on the issue.

Then we seem agreed for the most part.

I do think the average manimal is actually deceived by makeup, by the way. The average dunce is easily deceived by masks and cosmetic deception. In this, you could claim that makeup is “for men” in practice. But, regarding “how women think”, this may not be true. Furthermore, it becomes completely falsified when you combine “what women think” and “what men think” on the topic of cosmetics and makeup.

Instead, the whole thing seems like a social delusion, and mostly related directly to female narcissism, solipsism, and nihilistic self-hatred.

This indicates that women find value in life by “feeling beautiful”, whether they are or not, is a completely separate matter.

As a side-note and side-topic, Moreno, what do you think about women revolving the value, meaning, and purpose of their lives around “feeling beautiful”? What do you think about this? To me, as a man, and perhaps with different values, it seems completely stupid and mindless. I understand that is an evaluation of Beauty and Popularity. Women value these values heavily. Women put beauty and popularity above working on…intellect, strength, wealth, etc. Maybe it is inherent by gender.

Maybe the female specie inherently values “Beauty” and “Popularity” over other human values, such as Intellect, Strength, Wisdom, Agility, and Wealth.

But if a woman is fat and ugly, then she can still focus on “Wealth” or “Intellect” to sexually reproduce.

Let me take a lateral step: armpit hair.
No woman has ever asked me if they should shave their armpits. I actually prefer natural armpits, but in any case, not a single one asked, a few have not.
Recently where I live, a young woman was seen in some online medium - facebook, whatever, I forget - at a concert, outdoors, armpit hair showing.
Not long after this an enormous, male driven campaign of hate was aimed at her, with thousands weighing in on her being a dog, whore, beast…and so on. Stuff was sent to her house, facebook account mauled, her identity revealed and so on.
Now, do I think when women shave their armpits they are ‘doing this for men’. Oh, let me get shave this hair so men will love me. No. I mean, if cornered. If not able to shave, I think fears might come up around this, if men could see the hair - summertime, beach, whatever. But no, it simply feels right. And seeing another woman with hair would likely look wrong.

My point is that at root in a lot of these practices is men’s aesthetics/reactions. these run so deep in society and the women are trained so young, that it simply feels right to be a certain way. To make one’s lips look more sexually arounds, to hint at labia, and so on. And if women stopped wearing make up eventually the feedback would reach them, from men. Sure, women would chime in. And sure some men would defend the lack of make up.

But these practices come from how most men evaluate women.

Women who have had cliterodectomies often think that women who have not had this done are unclean. They don’t immediately think - Oh, men will have a problem with that. But the root of the idea is male fears of female sexuality, and the sewing up of the labiar or what is left of the opening of the vagina, is to guarantee virginity, because this is part of the male demand. That the women is only their sexually before and after.

The experience of a man who does not care for makeup will, of course, be just as you say. He will encounter women and the women are the direct agents in the putting on of their make up. We do not have make up police like the anti-makup male police patrols in Iran. the women are doing it and if the man wants to have her stop, he will need to convince her.

But I am talking about the causal root, and why these women have been trained to internalize male ideals, iow make them their own, that is.

In a way Atthet is right. Women and men do use cosmetics and hygiene for there own gender.But, not to appeal, it is to compete. Men’s facial hair is the same as cosmetics. Males are vain just as women are and both arr in competition with their own gender.

Otherwise we all would wear burlap and never bathe (exaggerated)

I have to disagree with the idea that competition is really what is on their minds. I think that notion got injected into society long after the fact.

Both men and women try to look appealing to the other regardless of any notion of competition.

Trying to be the best choice for mating is not competing?

Trying to be desired is not competing.
Competing is focused on the other players and merely trying to beat them.
The focus is in the wrong place, like trying to ensure that no one else can win, leaving yourself as the only viable option despite not being the slightest bit attractive to the one you wanted to like you.

The best racers are simply doing the best they can, not trying to be better than the others.
And what if there are no others around? Do you just say, "okay, I’m all you have, let’s go fuck"?
Good luck with that.

Oh James, if you want to look at it that way it still is competing but, with self. Can I make myself better? It is at it’s core, competing .

Nope, still not.
The objective in the mind isn’t “can I make myself better than I am”, but rather “can I make myself more perfect in the eyes of the other”.

No competition.

Is or is not a challenge, competing?

Nope.
When racing against the clock, for example, the clock is not trying to get there before the racer.
The clock merely represents a goal, not a competitor.

Competition inspires more passion, but it wasn’t really about competing in the first place.
The man represents a goal for a woman to look good to. The man isn’t trying to prevent it or beat her to it (I hope).

It only becomes a competition when there is a possession presumed that might be lost by not “beating the other player”.

Now round that back up to where I said women and men are competing against their own gender.