The Pope should rebuke Bush.

The Pope is visiting President Bush today. While he is here, he should publicly rebuke President Bush for his unjust war in Iraq, his policy of torturing political prisoners, his distortion of the “culture of life” teaching for use as political rhetoric and his policies favoring rich over poor. That would be the Jesus-like thing to do.

But… on the flip side he supports anti-abortion laws, oppose stem-cell research, and sure gets rid of those pesky muslims…

The pope doesn’t have the right to critisize anyone considering what the catholic church is responsible for.

Yeah he’s been covering up institutionalized child rape for years.

Not only covering up but protecting those whom could no longer be hidden.

He’s a dirty nazi.

Cyrene–It’s irrational to hold the pope responsible for crimes committed by the church before he became pope. It’s also irrational to hold him responsible for every crime committed by a Catholic. The child sex abuse scandal surfaced before he became pope. He has now said he is deeply ashamed of it and will take steps to prevent its recurrence. To this outsider, the magnitude of the scandal is such that it requires systemic top-down change.

Smears-- your comment appears to be nothing more than baseless slander.

I heard that this new pope was like the old pope’s dick cheney back in the day.

That is a vague innuendo which you admit is based on heresay.

But the real question is, to what extent do you think it’s true?

OK. You haven’t made a factual allegation yet. You have called the Pope names and compared him to people that you apparently don’t like. Your statements are subjective to a complete extent.

I appreciate the idea but I’m not sure the Jesus-thing-to-do is always to shoot from the hip and condemn sin. I think it all depends to what extent Bush is trying to be a Christian and would respect the authority of the Pope. I see little evidence of either.

Did Jesus speak truth to power? I think the gospels testify that he did. Must I quote chapter and verse to make my point? To me, whether Bush is trying to be a Christian or not is irrelevant as is Bush’s respect for the Pope. The purpose of a public rebuke would be 1) to declare the clear moral truth of the situation 2) to provoke change.

The war in Iraq is unjust. As a result of it over 650,000 lives, most of them innocent, have been lost. The violence, the torture, the lies, the hypocracy, and the social injustice of the man grieves my spirit. If Bush had a scintilla of conscience he would not be able to sleep at night. The world system is one in which sociopaths are often at the top. By virtue of the callous abuse of his great power, Bush joins the company of the history’s tyrants.

The more one has to lose, the more courage it takes to stand for what is right. The Pope, as the leader of an enormous, powerful, and wealthy organization has a lot to lose. Easier to play politics, glad-handing tyrants so you can be a hail fellow in their international club. Whenever this happens, which is most of the time in world politics, truth is the loser.

Jesus’ courage to speak truth to power is doubtless what got him killed. It is one of the qualities I love about him.

Like I said, I’m not convinced. Did Jesus condemn the Roman occupation of palastine?

He obviously spoke his mind to authorities without fear but I’m not convinced his agenda would be the same as our whether we have right-wing or left-wing political views. I find it difficult to predict what Jesus would be most annoyed about, I suspect the state of the church could be high on the list. But it might be something totally unexpected. I find it hard to believe that the obvious targets would be “His targets” and those who claim to know, I suspect are just using Jesus to further their own agenda.

I think he will.

It is his obligation as a shepherd to his flock.

But of course not abusively saying “Hey, Mr. Bush fuck off Iraq now or I’ll send your ass to purgatory without any indulgences”.

Most likely the Pope will give a generalization of evil and criticism of the evils of war the evils of too much secularization, of too much ecological destruction, of too much Christian and Islamic fundamentalism, of the role of the US for other countries it had conquered…er… liberated(?).

Then he will inject a prayer and message of universal tolerance and promotion of ecumenism.

What the heck, I still love my German Shepherd :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I would just like to point out that even if it were the Christ-like thing to do for the Pope to rebuke Bush, it’s not necessarily the Christ-like thing for him to do it publicly.

I don’t know what you mean by right wing or left wing. Catholic theology has defined what a just war is, and this one doesn’t meet the definition. If you have a “Christian” rationale for torture, please don’t share it with me. To read it might cause me to smash my laptop. The catholic “culture of life” teaching includes a sanction against capital punishment. George Bush while bandying about “culture of life” rhetoric, signed off on more executions than any other governor. Bush’s tax cuts for his wealthy peers are well documented. My only agenda is to speak the truth. I’m not running for office, I hold no position in any church and I’m not on the ILP payroll. Ned, no offense intended, but if you don’t know what Jesus would do, do you really know Jesus?

If Pope rebuked him privately, which I doubt, he wasted his breath. For Bush, the die is cast and he will never be held accountable by the American government. Nothing short of public humiliation will drive him to repent of his crimes against humanity. Smiling and shaking hands with him like a toady will not get the job done. Worse, it legitmates him and his administration of war, torture, hypocracy and injustice.

So no answers for subjective questions?

Smears-- How are baseless name calling and slanderous innuendo related to truth?