Possibly more powerful than sensory input, I have been wondering about the power of words and meaning upon the perception. As an example, and I hope you don’t mind, I’ll use astrology. Lately as a believer I have been questioning the basis of that belief, I sued to see types of faces and kinds of people, then categorise them.
I would then see similar types in others, and often with great accuracy conclude that there are indeed some manner of archetypes. Yet then I started googling images of celebrities on TV I had considered to be of certain types, but none of them matched. Then I thought, well why would I even expect someone’s physical appearance to be in such categories, would that make astrology genetic lol.
Had my perception changed my vision of the world? Because it had been altered by words and ideas? We all know the power of words on our perception of fundamentals like colour, so here I am wondering what the full extent of that is. Maybe we don’t even see the same world, the same people. Yet what about the aforementioned ‘accuracy’;
Can illusion be a vehicle to truth? [what else then do we truly have!!!]
do we somehow intuit informations about one another, perhaps as like morphic fields or what they actually are ~ information carriers or info being carried indirectly I.e. via illusion or some other vehicle which doesn’t physically correlate exactly?
doesnt information abstract from one thing to another.
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Being vehicle of Consciousness, Word reflects the world. So does perception. The latter operates following the input of the sense-organs. And Word(s) might be considered as humanity common nerves. Others’ [original] words are supposed to be product of their minds. These could be fuel (input) for our own brains. If we happened to produce some original thoughts on our own – then this would be our output.
Now. I tend to believe that We, ‘mature’ people as a general rule would listen to other people’s words, opinions and speculations whenever these coincide or come closer to those of our own. In a way we are all and always prejudiced about everything. Even at the first encounter with a particular subject. Our previous experience is what usually matters. What is intuition if not our randomly utilizable lineal memory? What about illusions? Aren’t these parts of our imagination?
And IMHO there is no so much difference in two famous sayings than:
“In the beginning was the word.”
“Our responsibility begins with our imagination.”( Haruki Murakami, Kafka on the Shore)
In short: Words are [powerful] images initializing our perception. (just the start points however.)
Interesting post, and we certainly do have prejudices about things ~ probably tailored by our experience of past conclusions. It is all about inputs, outputs and the languages in-between, perhaps our prejudice is part of the filter ~ if we agreed with everything we’d possibly not contribute much or indeed nothing at all.
I suppose words like any symbols are simply more distinct forms of images, ones which the mind understands more specifically, then math is and extension of that.
Moving in the opposite direction art and imagination would be images of a far less specific and interpretive nature. Eventually we reach the point of illusion and ultimately ‘descriptionlessness’, though there is a clear difference between illusion derived from false interpretations of sensory info, and illusion in the context of art.
Which brings me to how info can travel the more fluid paths of imagination, art and morphic fields. That somehow info can use unspecific things as vehicles such to still communicate meaning or some amount of the original meaning between different parties!
‘words’ come in as stimulation, then that they pass through what appear to be cellular masses and mysterious chemistry, then a vast ‘reaction’ sturs up, and it also sturs up other reactions too.
We can symbolize a rock with any number of symbols. usually fewer is better.
A rock could be a Gregerberry. Or it could be a 52A. That doesn’t matter, because there is no ‘true language’. And there is no need for a ‘true language’.
In the abscense of a true anything, there is the wonderful and endless opportunity to create.
Indeed it seems that even if we appoint value upon some things, they are then superseded by the fact that one thing abstracted to another.
The cogs of the machine grind but are only figments of our imagination, the true reality is in what physical things are occurring to make that happen. Then that due to wave particle duality even those things have an equivalent level of ‘illusion’.
The cogs turn and a wheel/cylinder spins, upon which are holes and gaps which instruct the loom to weave the silk into the design. One information set abstracts to another, and there seems to be at every level in-between an element of illusion, and yet everything is equally real.
We can’t drink a glass of water. We can only drink what “glass of water” stands for.
“Glass of water” seems real to us - like it really IS that. But it isn’t. The “glass of water” is an illusion - a hypnotic trance like. What is real is what that “glass of water” stands for - which is “what is.”
We call those realities that have names, “apparent reality.” This is the whole physical world. An illusion. The reality that has no names, cannot be described, we call, “real reality.” Or just “reality,” if you want to be absolutely correct.
The physical world is an illusion. That which allows the illusion to exist is reality.
The apparent reality - physicality, is created by our beliefs. All of our realities are created by our beliefs. None of us ever have a thought that we don’t believe - KNOW, is real. Is true.
Since our beliefs are nothing more than a collection of believed thoughts, these two phenomena results in us trusting all of our beliefs as true and real. Even the belief that that can’t be true. THAT one is also true and real.
So when we name anything, we believe it to actually be that, and thus the power of words that you have noticed.
One might think of a pile of automobile parts and then think about putting a tire on a wheel, putting two wheels on an axle, and continuing on until one has an automobile. At what point in the construction did the pile of parts stop being that and became an automobile?
You mean to say that all of my life I have been drinking water and it has been quenching my thirst, some times awesomely more so than at other times, and I have been doing nothing more than just experiencing and tasting an illusion?
When we look at a rainbow, in a sense we are kind of experiencing an illusion albeit a beautiful one - though it it is still there - it is not quite what the appearance of it shows us - it is something else.
But a glass of water? It is cold, it is wet, it is fluid and I know it to be real when I see it, when it touches my lips, when it flows down my throat. I can feel it surging in my belly and quenching my thirst. I can still feel its touch lingering on my lips.
Am I real or am i just a figment of the imagination of time and space - perhaps a momentary wisp of the wind.
Am I real?
Of course it can but we first have to see it as illusion…as something other than what its appearance or experience shows or gives.
It is the beginning of the journey.
Perhaps illusions enter the mind as a way of opening up a window to let in the truth.
Perhaps the mind already knows what it is about. But then it is the harmony of the mind with the WILL which actually gets the motor up and running.
That glass of water, that quenching thirst, all thoughts of any kind are thoughts in your head, - not what is “out there.” How can you drink what is in your head?
The glass of water that you think you are drinking - that you think really exists, is a thought about some reality that you cannot see because the glass of water you are thinking about looks to you like it is real. That phenomena is what is hiding reality, which is really in plain sight - obvious. It is what “is” - whatever that is.
You exist. That is real. Not the “you” that has a name and a personality, but the “you” that you feel as “I AM.” You feel an identity. The you that you think is you, that one is not real. It too is an illusion.
Perhaps it is not so much ‘reality’ which ‘allows’ illusion to exist as it is rather our perspection of it which is not necessarily ‘real’.
I cannot fathom reality as allowing illusion to exist. Wouldn’t that be kind of paradoxical?
It is rather our illusions and lack of knowledge which portray something as being ‘real’ which is not.
You dream. isn’t it that you are real[ly] dreaming an illusion? I mean the fact that you are dreaming is real, but the contents of the dream is illusionary. Reality allows illusion to exist. No problem.
Well, not really. What you are describing as “real” is not. The whole physical universe is contained completely within your skull. Is it not an illusion then, that the tree you see in your front yard is really not there, but in your brain? That what seems real is really not? Like in a night dream?
“Knowledge” implies knowing about named things. One portion of knowledge is that some things that seem real - such as sawing a woman in half, are really illusions. It happens that all named things - anything you have knowledge about, is an ilusion. A dream, more correctly.
Reality is what “is” - whatever that is. As soon as it is named, it becomes a thought and a thought is never the thing being thought about. You cannot drink a glass of water. You can only drink what “glass of water” stands for - which has no name.
I do think there is a glass of water though, its more that it is a material projection [perhaps of background info], and the idea in our minds are a mental projection. One would expect there to be a language between the two, or some way for form and function to transcend between mind and material.
What can we mean by illusion? isn’t everything some manner of reality? For me illusion occurs at the blurring between informations abstracting ~ yet that is not an illusion as such, its just maybe that reality is far more fluid than our descriptions/compartmentalisations/confinements of it are. is it not us who are putting up scaffolding where none are required; we are making the world look unlike it is because we dont get it?
Arcturus Descending
Hi
See also above ^^
I agree here ~ with respect to your use of the term ‘illusion’, which is more of a misunderstanding, some other kind of blurring or lack of knowledge/wisdom about a thing.
I am more referring to ‘illusion’ as what takes place in reality, due to our perception and metaphor/language. Maybe also as representing the transitory nature between abstracting occurences in real terms!
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I don’t quite know what you are saying here. Are you saying that Mind projects the glass of water into the world?
There is a language between the two. The language of the real world is transmitted through our experiences. The language of the illusionary dream world is transmitted through our beliefs.
Do you mean that reality is all that exists?
For me, illusion is something that seems real but isn’t.
You lost me here. Could you re-explain?
This portion of your message is new to me. I think you transposed a couple of responses from someone else.
That and that there is also a glass of water in the world. We only know there is a difference because of optical illusions and recent studies which state that colour and shade are perceptual. Mostly I evolution trained brain gets its representation of the world right, because it is informed by them via the senses.
Yes, but more that illusion e.g. from an LSD trip, a dream etc, is the mind projecting an incorrect vision of the world. Yet that vision in itself is as real as the vision of the glass of water, it is merely non-representative of anything out there.
Yes, but it is also that our minds/perceptions are shaped by our language ~ which is abstract [consider math]. We believe ourselves to be in a different universe to that of the ancients ~ where the stars and celestial spheres were literally the heavens. Perhaps if we had a more fluid understanding we’d be living in an altogether different universe again.
Light vibrations are received by the retina of the eye, creating an electrochemical reacton which allows ions to travel up the optic nerve into the brain cells where they combine with other nerves cells in the brain, and suddenly we “see.”
We therefore, do not see with the eye, but with the brain.
Pulsating air pressure is created by a tree falling. The eardrum picks up the pulsing air pressure, causing it to vibrate, which moves the anvil and stirrup in the inner ear, which moves cilia which sets up an electrochemical reaction, loosing ions when travel into the brain, and suddenly we “hear.”
We do not hear with the ear, but with the brain.
All of our senses use the same method to operate. The result is that the brain creates all sensory results. The senses create none. Thus the end result is that the whole physical universe resides completely within our skulls. Is there anything “out there” at all? There’s no way to tell. Probably isn’t, though. More like a dream world. Our lying senses are all we have to test the theory. So that’s out.
Now I am completely lost. The first two sentences, I wrote. Also the first part of the second sentence and everything except “re-”. I don’t know to what I am supposed to respond
You listen only to yourself. When you leave the sense of hearing alone, all that is there is the vibration of the sound – the words repeat themselves inside of you, as in an echo chamber. You think the words you are hearing come from outside of you.
You can never hear one word from anyone else; you hear only your own translations, always. They are all your words you are hearing. All that the other person’s words can possibly be to you is a noise, a vibration picked up by the ear-drum and transferred to the nerves which run to the brain. You are translating those vibrations all the time, trying to understand, because you want to get something out of what you are hearing.
You mean that when someone talks to me, I am really hearing my own speech internally?
I understand. What I am hearing comes from my brain, not from “out there?” If that is what you are saying, I have known for some time that our hearing comes from the brain, but it never occured to me that the speech heard also comes from there. That possibility gives me a hypothesis for another mystery that has long puzzled me…
The sense of sight and the other senses have this same anomaly in that the actual “seeing,” “feeling,” “hearing,” etc. are all activities of the brain. In other words we sense with the brain and not with our so-called senses. Do you agree with this?
Every time a thought is born, you are born. When the thought is gone, you are gone. But the ‘you’ does not let the thought go, and what gives continuity to this ‘you’ is the thinking. Actually there is no permanent entity in you, no totality of all your thoughts and experiences. You think that there is ‘somebody’ who is thinking your thoughts, ‘somebody’ who is feeling your feelings — that’s the illusion.
I have for sometime now, belived that “God” and consciousness is the same thing. That all that exists is consciousness and that the physical world is a dream like the night dreams we have. It is pretty commonly accepted that those people out there are aspects of ourselves, and then there is “projection” whereby the feelings we believe others have are really projecting from ourselves onto them.
Now you have me thinking that the consciousness that I have is the only one, and that therefore, I am God. I have read of people that I trust saying that they are God - Meher Baba, Maharijii (I think) and of course, Jesus. You think they could have “seen” that and thus have a confidence of something that I only have a theory of?
Perhaps it is not so much ‘reality’ which ‘allows’ illusion to exist as it is rather our 