This thread is about when the mind loops in on itself, like a pretzel. A bigoted mind where all evidence is self contained and thus views of the local herd go unquestioned - it is all self-evident.
Sadly, post-Communist states in Eastern Europe will often engender a singlemindedness in the populace, a simplistic worldview where living beyond Plato’s Cave is a betrayal, and besides, there be dragons …
Those who get out and see the world, know better.
THIS THREAD STARTER DOCUMENTS MY INTERACTION WITH AN APPARENTLY WELL-MEANING CITIZEN OF THE FORMER SOVIET BLOC, WHO FAVOURS PUTIN AND IS, I FEEL, IN DENIAL OF HIMSELF BEING A FASCIST? IT OPENS WITH TWO POSTS, AS THERE IS A LOT TO SURVEY.
YOU WILL SEE A DEFENCE OF MIGRATION, BRITISHNESS, AS WELL AS AN ADMISSION THAT THERE ARE DOWNSIDES TO OUR IMMIGRATION POLICY (but l forgot to add: l’ve read that the recent influx of asylum seekers may be useful as a first wave of soldiers should Putin start WW3, so not all bad then!). FYI: I am Muslim, the other person is Atheist, and l think most people responding will be Atheist, single, right wing, and at least one ( @Socrates ) will be lost in an illusory world of computer gaming, and he fancies colonising deep space and establishing a new world where women are chattel, his counterargument being (on another thread) that he believes in REALITY and he does NOT have to explain himself (l mean, it’s only a phil debate forum after all).
NAUSE MONOLOGUING ONE-SIDEDLY, NOT UNDERSTANDING THE INNATELY MULTICULTURAL NATURE OF THE UK & HIS OWN HUNGARY:
^^ Emphasis added.
The UK was made by pirates and slave traders.
The Saxons arrived as mercenaries and decided to just take the nation instead.
The Saxons traded Celtic slaves.
The Vikings (mostly Danes) decided to just take the nation from Celts & Saxons.
The Vikings traded Celtic slaves and probably Saxon slaves too, l mean why not Saxons too? They definitely did a big trade in Celtic slaves, selling them to Franks in Europe probably.
The Normans decided to just take the nation for themselves and enslaved the locals before gradually power sharing.
The Angevins were some type French invaders too l think.
Next stop: the Age of Sail, then the Golden Age of Piracy: Francis Drake, Blackbard, Captain Morgan etc etc British overseas possessions became established, propped up by piracy and the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
Next: the British East India Company, and other European enterprises, monetising all overseas possessions. India went from producing over 60% of the world’s GDP to today’s state of affairs.
Next: Two world wars & then post-Colonial chaos
You lack perspective.
Also, Magyars are invaders too. In fact l recall reading about one chronicle which stated there were two warring Saxon brothers. One invited Magyars to help him fight a battle against the other. On the day of battle, ta da-a-a-a … the two Saxon brothers joined forces instead, and buried the Magyars actually alive.
Hungary was known as “Tourkia” to the Byzantines and the Magyars were known as Torci to the Romans.
Hungary in the Middle Ages was on the verge of being an Islamic state. Nause’s own ancestors were undoubtedly in large part Muslim.
Wikipedia goes into some detail about Islam & Turks in Hungary before the Ottomans even arrived: Islam in Hungary - Wikipedia
Early history
According to reports in the 9th and 10th centuries, Islam was practiced by a significant minority of the conquering Hungarians.[2][3][4][5][6] The Muslim population in Hungary was joined by additional Muslim settlers between the 10th and 13th centuries.[2] In the old form of the Hungarian language, Muslims were often called Böszörmény, which in turn descends from Arabic: مسلم, Muslim. This term is preserved as both a family name, and as that of the town Hajdúböszörmény.[7] Amongst other names of Muslims in early Hungary were Khalyzians, Saracen and Ishmaelites.[8]
The first Islamic author to speak of this Muslim community was Yaqut al-Hamawi (575-626 AH/1179-1229 CE), he writes about a famous Hungarian student who studied in Aleppo. According to the student, there were 30 Muslim villages in Hungary.[9] Yaqut writes in his famous geographical dictionary, “Mu’ajam al-Buldan”,[10] about his meeting with a Hungarian Muslim youth in Syria who was studying Islam there and brought some details of the history and life of their people in Hungary.
The Spaniard Muslim traveler Abu Hamid al Garnati wrote of two types of Muslims in the country, the first being the Böszörmény and the second being the Khalyzians (Khwarezmians). He reported that Géza II of Hungary expressed a great fondness of Muslims.[11]
In the 11th century, St. Ladislaus and later Coloman passed laws against the non-Christians (Synod of Szabolcs). These laws subdued Islam by coercing Muslims to eat pork, go to Church, intermarry, and to forbid them from celebrating Friday. Some of Coloman’s laws include:[12]
§ 46 If someone catches Ismaelites in fasting or eating or on keeping away from pork or in ritual washing or in other false practices these Ismaelites have to be sent to the king and whoever sued them shall receive a share from their properties.
§ 47 We command all Ismaelite villages to build a church and finance it. After the church is built the half village should move and settle elsewhere in order to become similar to us in living together and also in Christ and in Church (i.e. become similar in faith).
§ 48 Ismaelites should not marry their daughters to their nation but only to our nation.
§ 49 If an Ismaelite has guest, or he invites someone to his house to eat, he and his guests should all eat only pork.
László (Saint Ladislaus) passed the following law:[13]
§ 9 on the merchants called Ismaelites, if becomes evident from them then after their baptism they return their old laws based on circumcision they should leave their homes but if they prove innocent they should stay.
These laws discriminated severely against the small minority.
Muslims in Hungary were reported to have often worked in the field of trade and finance. A ring with an Arabic inscription was found in the grave of Béla II of Hungary. Furthermore, Hungarian royal coins from between the 12th and 13th centuries were found to have Arabic inscriptions. Whilst the presence of Arabic inscriptions does not directly imply a connection with Islam, Arabic-speaking populations were predominantly Muslim.
Káliz Road, named after the Muslim Khalyzians, was a trade route between Szeged and the Danube used for the transport of salt from Transylvania.
Jenő Szűcs states that prior to the Mongol invasions of the 13th century, “the country was pretty much strewn with military and merchant colonies of Muslim religious groups”.[11]
The original Hungarians were probably these people, the Khanty-Mansi (Voguls and Ostyaks), though personally l can also see Permiaks contributing to their tribe:
NAUSE’S DENIAL OF POSTMODERN NAZISM:
Yet you still put:
NAUSE THEN FRONTING FOR NAZIS THAT HE SAYS DON’T EXIST:
Not for now at least, but …
NAUSE FALSELY CLAIMING THAT I AM IN DENIAL ABOUT TRASH IN THE UK AFTER I ADMIT IT UPRONT:
NAUSE ATTACKING UK GOVERNMENT, AND SAYING IT’S KEIR STARMER, INSTEAD OF APOLITICAL CORE GOVERNMENT:
Many factors make it difficult to be accurate about crime rates. However, there was an increase in crime from the late 1920s due to the economic depression and then World War Two. After 1955, crime rose steeply.
Problems with crime statistics
Statistics about crime rates were recorded annually by the government after 1898. However, historians must treat the data cautiously, for the following reasons:
Some crime was not reported officially. For example, in the past, some problems, particularly with young offenders, might have been dealt with informally without being recorded by the police.
Some crime was reported more than it had been in the past. This was the case in instances of burglary, because insurance companies required reporting to the police in order for a claim to be made.<==== THIS EXPLAINS THE EXPLOSION IN RAPE CRIME IN SWEDEN, COINCIDING WITH MASS-MIGRATION
Laws changed so that some offences were no longer crimes and new crimes emerged. <==== AGAIN, THIS EXPLAINS THE EXPLOSION IN RAPE CRIME IN SWEDEN, COINCIDING WITH MASS-MIGRATION - “MARITAL RAPE” BECAME A CRIME, WHICH INCIDENTALLY THE RIGHT WING WOULD OPPOSE, YET THEY MAKE USE OF IT TO SAY MIGRANTS ARE “RAPE-FUGEES” CAUSING RAPES ALL OVER SWEDEN, WHEN IN FACT IT’S JUST STATISTICAL QUIRKS
Crime rates between 1900 and 1955
Between 1900 and 1925, crime rates were relatively stable. They then increased in the late 1920s and 1930s, with the onset of economic problems and unemployment during the depression. The government was also dealing with many strikes and protests during this period.
When World War Two broke out in 1939, crime rates fell initially, then rose again during the Blitz in 1940. Criminals took advantage of the air raids to steal from people’s homes, shops and even people killed in the air raids. The war also brought rationing, which led to the theft and illegal sale of goods on the black market.
Crime since 1955
After 1955, crime increased significantly, at a much faster rate than the increase in population. Violent crime increased, as did other types of crime. The number of murders fell, but this has largely been explained by improvements in medicine, which meant that fewer people died from injuries.
Car-related crime
By 1900, the motor car had been invented and car ownership increased over the 20th century. New laws were created to restrict speeding and driving under the influence of alcohol. As a result, car-related crime is now one of the biggest categories of crime.
Car-related crime includes:
drink driving - an alcohol limit was introduced in 1967
not wearing seat belts - compulsory for drivers after 1983 and adult passengers after 1991
breaking the speed limit
joy-riding, where people steal a car and then abandon it after riding around in it
car theft and the sale of stolen vehicles
Road deaths have fallen since the 1960s, even though there are now more cars on the road. Car theft has also significantly decreased as security systems in cars have been improved.
Football hooliganism
Violence among spectators at football matches increased throughout the 20th century, reaching its height in the 1970s and 1980s. It has fallen again since match security has increased and the use of CCTV has become more widespread.
Hate crimes
In 1948, the government passed the British Nationality Act, which gave all citizens of the British Empire, now Commonwealth, unrestricted access to Britain. Between 1950 and 1975, many people from places such as the Caribbean, India, Kenya and Pakistan moved to Britain.
…
Drug-related crime
The government made cocaine and opium illegal substances as early as 1920. However, it was not until the 1960s that illegal drug-taking became a serious problem in society.
In 1971, the government categorised drugs into classes A, B and C. Offences relating to Class A drugs carry the harshest punishments. Supplying Class A drugs to other people initially resulted in a maximum prison sentence of 14 years. This increased to a maximum prison sentence of life from 1985. …
Cybercrime
When widespread internet access arose in the 1990s criminal activity in Britain changed. In 2015, the government included figures for cybercrime in the national crime statistics for the first time. The cybercrime rate had doubled from the previous year. …
MY COMMENT: NOW LET’S GET TO THE PRESENT
Demographics: The Muslim population in UK is mostly Asian. Not all Asians are Muslims of course, l’d say at least 60% are. Use the following graph to calibrate the later stats -
SO, FOR MUSLIMS, TAKE THE ASIAN PERCENTAGE OF UK (approx. 9%) and take 60% of that (6%-7% is a good generous estimate).
SO, FOR THE FOLLOWING STATS, IF MUSLIMS ARE PROPORTIONATELY REPRESENTED IN CRIME STATS, THEY WILL ACCOUNT FOR 6-7% ONCE YOU MULTIPLY THE ASIAN % BY 0.6 (60%) - i.e. IF ASIANS ARE 8% OF A CRIME CATEGORY, MUSLIMS WOULD BE (0.6*8)% OF THAT = 4.8%, WHICH IS BELOW THE 6-7% IF MUSLIMS WERE PROPORTIONATELY CRIMINAL IN THAT CATEGORY, i.e. Muslims are less criminal than their % stake in the population of the UK.
INDICTABLE OFFENCES:
SUM ACROSS EACH HORIZONTAL BAR = 100%
Of the defendants prosecuted for indictable offences in 2024, where ethnicity is known, 83% were White, 7% were Black, 6% were Asian, 3% were of Mixed ethnicity and 1% were of the Other ethnic group - with similar proportions seen in convictions.
Muslims are one of the least criminal groups in the UK. Remember to multiple “Asian” by 0.6-0.7 to get an approximateion the percentage of that category that are Muslims doing it.
UK crime has increased drastically since 1921 but this can be attributed to new crime categories, better detection and increased reporting.
Notably: the new crime cats and increased reporting also actually explain the recent (since circa 2000) explosion in Sweden’s rapes. Coinciding with mass migration. BUT BUT … Sweden made marital rape a crime, and the perpetrators are overwhelmingly native Swedes etc etc.
This creation of marital rape as a crime cat should be against Right Wing ideals of family and protecting marriage right? Yet the right wing treat is a gift when they need stats to scapegoat migrants as rapists.
I would also theorise that since mass migration of Asians into the UK circa 1970 onward, native Whites have sliiiightly increased in economic status, and an increase in affluence = decrease in criminality (basically because there’s less need to be a scumbag if you are well off).
So, a slight increase in White affluence is indeed mirrored in a slight under-representation of White race in the stats, but note that even though Asians (think: my intended focus = Muslims) are very low economic class (poor, not very affluent) they STILL manage to be under-represented in crime too!
Again this graph ^^^
The sharp peak was late 80s, when the UK went into a massive economic recession. This was before the huge jump in migrants (refugees mainly l think) from 2000 onward so you can’t say it was refugees.
So my point is, look what poverty does to crime stats. Muslims live very poor in the UK. Yet they still manage to be under-represented in crime, not just as an ethnicity (presumed Asian with slight overestimation to correct for other Muslim ethnicities), but as poor people.
THE CRIMES OF MIGRANTS ADDRESSED - SPOILER: MAYBE IT WAS NAUSE ALL ALONG? DUN DUN DUNNNNNN:
There are compatibility issues. I know. But you ignore the wider picture of how this all came about. Moreover, the UK is obliged to take in migrants as part of a UN agreement. It is not politics. It is the World.
YOU do not run the WORLD. You are a powerless narrowminded bigot who does NOT run the world.
As for Somali pirates and terrorism in Germany … that is nothing to do with Islam. Islam is noble.
In fact, what’s to say that the Somali Pirates are really even Muslim? None of these problems existed before Israel.
In fact the Somali pirates could even be Magyars from NUBIA. “Magyarabs have been members of the World Federation of Hungarians (Magyarok Világszövetsége) since 1992 and still consider themselves as Hungarians.”
So, l’m sorry @nausamedu but l need to question your role in all of this?
Also, who does terrorism serve? It scandalises Muslims and Islam is the only religion that prescriptively explicitly forbids terrorism by law. Your one-sided view will never admit this.
Also note: UK permitted East Europeans to work here. The media reports that East Europeans have brought a lot of crime here, especially since 2014 with the dropping of restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians. But even prior to then, l saw a lot of criminality with Poles, in person and on the news.
Have you ever seen me complain? No, because l know the vicissitudes of life. I see the bigger picture, the sad reality that uproots people and makes them work thousands of km away in order to bring money home - including the many Hungarian surgeons in the UK, one of whom l have visited for oral surgery. There was also a Hungarian girl previously in a room in a shared house which l later moved into. She apparently dated a Bangladeshi guy at the same Indian restaurant where she worked. One of the guys in the shared house - an English guy - was madly in love with her and told me all this. She one day disappeared, leaving only a motorbike in the backyard. She was probably involved with some form of crime for her to do that (no, she wasn’t killed, we have a police force here that does look into such things).
I like East Europeans and have listened to world music, including East European, since l was a teenager. In fact, l was fairly interested in Bela Bartok and Zoltan Kodaly, having studied a book of ethnomusicology written by the latter. I also had a vintage Hungarian Citer for a while.
And, regarding integration and your narrowmindedness:
NAUSE’S FAKE STATS:
THE MAINSTREAM LEFT, RIGHT & CENTRE ARE NOT THE ISSUE. THE ISSUE IS THE EXTREME LEFT AND EXTREME RIGHT. I HAVE SHOWN YOU 40 SEX OFFENDERS FROM THE FAR RIGHT JUST FROM ONE BLOG THAT ONLY SPANNED ABOUT 5 YEARS. YOU RESPONDED BY FAKE STATS ABOUT ASYLUM SEEKERS (WHO MAY BE RIGHT WING FOR ALL YOU KNOW) AND THEN LISTED AS “LEFT WING SEX OFFENDERS” A BUNCH OF GUYS THAT WERE NOT LEFT WING AND / OR WERE NOT SEX OFFENDERS. YOU CONTINUED UNABASHED WHEN THIS WAS POINTED OUT. YOU SHOT BACK A REDUCTIO AD ABSURDAM THAT I’M SAYING THERE ARE NO LEFT WING SEX OFFENDERS.
THERE WILL BE SEX OFFENDERS IN MAINSTREAM POLITICS ON ALL SIDES (BUT THEY ARE QUITE HARD TO FIND IN THE MAINSTREAM LEFT, EVENSO, AREN’T THEY? AREN’T THEY? HUH? AREN’T THEY? WELL?).
HOWEVER, THE MAINSTREAM = PEOPLE DOING WRONG BECAUSE THEY ARE PEOPLE.
THE POLITICAL EXTREMES = PEOPLE DOING WRONG QUITE LIKELY BECAUSE THEIR LIVES ARE PREDICATED ON THEIR POLITICS, THEY ARE ALL UP IN A VIEWPOINT.
SO IT FALLS TO YOU TO POINT OUT THE FAR LEFT SEX OFFENDERS, IN THE SAME MANNER I CASUALLY SHOWED 40 FAR RIGHT (INC. NAZI) SEX OFFENDERS FROM THE PRESENT ERA.
YOU HAVE FAILED TO DO SO.
Your stats are baseless. You have shown no evidence. Also it’s clear from your words here that you are just running AI to churn out these false stats. If anything is disproven, then it is a lie as far as you are concerned. Google is greater than UK Government to you, when it comes to UK stats. This is a tragic commentary on modernity and you, being oldskool 50something should have known better.
You have also ignored everything explained by the CJS survey l pointed out here:
To bolster your attack on the left wing, you said the stats l presented (from a neutral source, that is, the governmental level, not political level) were lies.
You gave a link to a Guardian (centre-left) news article from 2014 stating police crime figures lost official status due to “fiddling”.
As follows:
*"According to The Daily Mail, ministers have been keen to point out the ten per cent drop in crime since the coalition came to power. However the Office for National Statistics warned that police records ‘overstate the true rate at which crime has been falling’.
Leading an inquiry into crime statistics, Tom Winsor, the Chief Inspector for Constabulary for England and Wales said he expects to find ‘some fiddling’."
The separately compiled Crime in England and Wales survey is unaffected by the UKSA decision. * <=== THAT IS PART OF THE SURVEY I QUOTED YOU FOR 2023-2025. IT IS UNAFFECTED AND IS DATED 1 DECADE AFTER THIS REPORT.
NOTES:
You cite the UK Statistics Authority (UKSA)
The UKSA oversees the data set l showed you, from the Criminal Justice System (CJS)
The stats l showed you were mostly for crimes that were actually prosecuted, l think the “Victims” data could have been a mix of reported and prosecuted, unsure
The statistics and enduring government policies on things like immigration, are overwhelmingly at Whitehall level, that is to say, core bureaucracy, what would properly be called “Deep State” but without the conspiracy-theory hype. It is just core government without politics. It is neither left nor right, and 99.99% of the things you complain about in the UK and Europe are down to core government. As such, your stance is Revolutionary and anti-democratic. Being right wing, it is therefore on the fascist / Nazi axis. Sorry.
This report about police stats being untrustworthy, which may probably no longer apply, was 10 years before the stats l presented to you
This report about police stats being untrustworthy worked against the RIGHT WING, who were trying to present themselves as champions of law and order, by saying they drastically reduced crime during their tenure.
The UK will always be normally a RIGHT WING country, perhaps due to the way boroughs are delineated, there’s a ghost of the “rotten borough” phenomenon still surviving, where many boroughs are sparsely populated, thus the people in them are well-off landowners inc. landed gentry, and thus highly conservative, and thus a lot of boroughs are guaranteed Tory seats decade after decade.
APPENDIX: MORE NAUSE GIVING OUT FAKE STATS:
NAUSE IN DENIAL THAT HUNGARY MAY HAVE A BRAINWASHED POSTCOMMUNIST MINDSET, PERHAPS?:
(Emphasis mine)
THE LAST WORD: NAZISM IS ALWAYS MURDER, AND ANYWAY, YOU ARE ANTIFA!:
You will never be able to counterargue that:
Fascists / Nazis are a deviation from democratic equilibrium.
Fascists / Nazis make a show of force wherever they go, regardless their plea of victimisation and protecting young female sexuality, they are brutal sexcases. You would never leave your young around them would you? Or your elderly for that matter. They each have a criminal record as long as a moebius strip.
Antifascists / far left act as a stop gap in reaction to the Far Right.
Even on their own, without any Far Right, the Far Left will always be for the greater part of society regardless colour, the far right will always be for the largest bloc of one colour. 5. There is no Nazism without murder (extrajudicial killing). Nazism is a thrill kill cult.
Nause: you’re not Nazi, and Antifa are Nazi and you just hate antifa for that reason, which … hang on … makes you … antifa? Blushes
I forgot to edit out my already-censored swear words. I broke into swearing as he had done so and also he was handwaving the expose of far right sex offenders and making counterclaims about left wing politicians who were not left wing and / or not sex offenders. Anyway, l’m a clean cusser, l never explicitly swore.
Note about this: it omits the percentage of each crime, of the UK population as a whole (so no, it does NOT favour Muslims or any immigrants, it doesn’t show how low crime they are). So, say if Asians only committed 1,000 crimes across the entire UK, the data bar for “Asian” would stay the same.
I believe Asians are under-represented for most crime categories, including sexual crimes.
Here is one data set l Googled but it’s about a decade old, but it harks back to a time when Muslims were supposedly raping all of West Europe (when in fact the new crime category of marital rape meant reported rapes shot up in those countries and in fact, the huge surge in rapes in Sweden, is attributed to this plus the fact that you’re safer around an asylum seeker than around daddy, in Sweden, l’m sorry): https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a820725e5274a2e87dc0c4f/number-convicted-sexual-offenders-by-ethnicity-tables.xlsx
^^^ regarding this data set, bear in mind that Asians are about 9% of the UK population and so l believe they are under-represented in the sex crimes data.
“Muslim” in the UK is more or less “Asian” but not vice-versa.
Also note: any kind of sex with a person under 16 is considered “statutory rape” i.e. rape by default, whether they give permission or not.
Unfortunately, Birmingham in the UK is now mostly Asian (unfortunate because we were never meant to displace native people). The whites didn’t want to be around us and so they moved away. This yielded more and more lebensraum for us and so we have the present situation. Secularism is permissive of all cultural styles and so we became increasingly culturally regressive - we arrived here in suits and 50 years on, we dress more eastern than people in our home countries do. It’s also true that we are the most backward people from our home countries, the intelligentsia stayed put. Yes it is sad, but the solution would have been for the natives not to sell their homes and move away. We are a low crime people, though poverty does confer some criminality as with all demographics, but still, our ghettoes are actually low crime. They are only considered “No Go” areas because frankly the natives would have a heart attack seeing how everyone dresses. Anyway, my point is, we are disliked mostly for the wrong reasons (we aren’t overly criminal) and scapegoated for stuff beyond our control (e.g. native Britons moving out of areas we move into, causing those areas to become even more ethnic, and also for the unfairness of the world’s economics - if we were to get better pay for our goods in our countries of origin, and better pay for labour in those countries, then we’d be less inclined to move when invited here).
Im going to interact only with certain snippets of this documentary because half of it is pointless and is based solely on a lack of understanding. However, the larger issues are:
Argument: Everything is multicultural if i just stretch the time-frame wide enough.
Example: The UK is totally innately multicultural because “things happened during the last 5 billion years”
In conclusion: no country has a culture of its own because things are constantly happening, i.e.: North korea, the world’s most monocultural nation is totally multicultural because they have have been occupied by the mongols in ca 1200AD.
Argument discarded on the notion of it being borderline comedy levels of sophistry.
Argument: Nazis are a prevalent force across the planet because “have this random assortment of brain fart 0.03% parties, and also ima slip in some more comedy by calling russia nazi and far right”.
Answer: No comment
Argument: Incompatible cultures being mixed without integration totally doesnt result in exponential crime increase, and if it does, then its because of better detection and more reporting, not because ppl are committing more crimes.
Answer: Yeah, in fact the crime rates throughout history have been a fixed number regardless of cultural, economical, natural or any other reasons, and only reporting and detection changed and nothing else.
There is no way on earth that there would be any kind of f-ing effect on a western country when you flood it with i.e. Somalians which have an average iq of 67 and a country where warlords reign and the most lucrative business model is sea piracy via attack boats.
If you know, then you know, and all of this bs is point and meaningless.
You should have enough critical thought and awareness to understand how biased, nonsensical and emotional your points are.
I am STILL not going to say that you are completely wrong because there ARE all kinds of nuances back and forth, but you start off your thread like this:
and it takes less than 3 minutes of reading your thread that you basically described yourself here in no uncertain terms.
I will repeat myself: I dont have beef with muslims, i dont have beef with migrants, i dont even want to have beef with you.
Its not personal. I dont know you. I am not living in the UK. I am not even a migrant, so im not going to condemn any of these people, countries, who or whatever.
You are entirely free to believe whatever you please, but spare me the kind of nonsense you yourself would not accept if other people tried to argue in opposition to you. Because sure af you would never take any of the arguments seriously you have just made, if they were bought up in opposition to you.
Nobody would.
And if you want to meet me half way: Sure.
I have my biases and you have yours. I can point at data and evidence and so can you.
But we are at an impass and since neither of us gonna convince the other, lets just agree to disagree. Peace to you my friend.
I don’t do sophistry. It is considered a part of sorcery in Islam. I believe usury is also banned for the same reason. It is about creating something, out of nothing.
It is about hacking reality. Reality was made so that we live it, experience the ups and downs and make meaning of it. Hacking reality = bypassing all of that. Sophists create the appearance of an argument but it is nonexistent, baseless. Usury has many forms in Islam but essentially it is creating value zero work. Computer gamers fight dragons and jump over rooftops, but in their virtual realities, it is literally impossible to do any actual good, to do any real life work at all in fact.
Sophistry.
My argument is about keeping within cultural memory and l took the UK’s history right up to the postmodern age. It was to make the point about Somali pirates in fact. I also made another point that a lot of controversial Somali figures are probably Jewish (Google Falasha Jews and also look up athlete Mo Farah’s real name), and that none of this kicked off before Israel. Further more, they could be Magyarabs, Jewish Hungarians that integrated into Nubian culture during the Ottoman era.
As for Hungary, again, see above re: the Magyarabs. Moreover my point was that being post-Communist, l felt you were searching for identity and were being seduced by White Nationalism as you were edging toward diatribes l used to read in White Nationalist forums. Hence l wanted to give you a reality check on your own origins. The historical backstory is relevant because you still bear the tribal name Magyar and your language is still close to Khanty-Mansi / Finno-Ugrian. Attila the Hun called himself Khan and is said to be buried somewhere in Hungary. I even stated today Hungarians are really Germans and Slavs that just inherited the Magyar language.
Another reason l mentioned all that history is so you can see how a section of your own forebears, the Muslims of Hungary, were persecuted and coerced into Christianity. By the way, l personally disagree with Wikipedia, l don’t know your language but Boszormenyi sounds nothing like Mussulman, Bosch / Bosz may perhaps refer to merchants, or the Bersemenyo tribe of Perm, in Russia’s farth north, neighbouring Khanti Mansiy. Also, l always thought “Khalyz” would refer to Celts (Ukrainian Galicians).
Anyway: you misrepresented my argument or at best, missed its nuances.
Further, to compare it to looking at a 5 billion year time frame is a blatant misrepresentation because:
Human history does not extend beyond circa 10,000 BCE
I never said 5 billion years
I left off at the 20th century re: UK, and approx. the 1600s re: Hungary
As it happens though, citing a much wider timescale is still valid if it’s within human history, as it shows how we have convergent originas and this bolsters the idea that we only excel each other in worship.
Sophistry.
No, you were saying Nazis don’t exist anywhere. I was showing that they did. You proceeded as if l had said nothing.
Sophistry.
I’ve explained why crime has increased in the modern era. Give me an example of a homogenous society that went from pre-industrial to industrial with large urban centres, whilst staying homogenous. Show me its crime states over time. That’s all you need to do.
@Nausamedu to cut a long story short:
I’ve no idea what your beef with WEF is, so you need to explain:
What they have said
How it came to be exactly true
And why that riles you
AND FINALLY: what you think should happen instead? This is the $25,000,000,000,000 (25 trillion USD) question. I mean, the solution is to give the developing world 25x10^12 USD.
Give the developing world this pretty sum and going forward, pay 5x what you pay for stuff that in any way shape or form originates in the east.
The power is in your hands. You can start by donating to Bangladesh. Let me know when you are ready, l will alert my family back home. Please don’t take the easy way out and grumble about societies in space-age nations. I see the fire in your eyes, you want real change. You want to donate hard cash, yes? Not take the easy way out with a computer and manic theories, yes? Real solutions yes? So you have your credit card ready, yes? Put your money where your mouth is yes? A little bit of money now, then later 25 trillion USD yes? Ready?
By the way do you know part of the reason India and China have huge populations? It’s because ordinary folk need more and more children to bring enough income to stay afloat, because of world commerce working against them. In other words: They are forced to sell cheap and in quantity.
Oh and another thing: Crime with asylum seekers in UK. I tried to find the stats. Apparently the government doesn’t keep stats as they are not UK citizens. I did manage to find an agreed figure and it was in absolute terms something like 79 ctimes in one recent year. This was somehow 15x higher than the average for actual UK citizens.
Please note though:
There is another website in my search results that appears to be giving out bogus and frankly impossible stats, of 120,0000+++ crimes commited by asylum seekers over a 3 year period or whatever. The stat is immanently impossible and moreover it’s unclear how they even acquired the figures
A common right wing view is asylum seekers are 25x more criminal. In fact it was found to be 15x more criminal.
BUT: for the crime categories, e.g. sexual crimes and assault, the migrants are almost all within the most culpable group: young 18-25 year old males. The UK stats count all age groups and all genders unless stated otherwise. The migrants are more or less purely within the most criminal demographic to start with.
Also, there is poverty as an aggravating factor.
Also, it’s unclear if the crimes were in bulk committed against each other or the local population.
Also, the number of crimes committed in the study (l forget the details) was so small, something like 79 total, that 1 crime is drastically more weighted than with the local UK population.
Following from that, the Far Right could easily arrange for 5 migrants to skew the statistics.
[Partly redacted as l cannot trace a full account of the story]
My point is, it only takes a few data points to dramatically skew the stats and so a rapist Asylum seeker is literally worth their weight in silver, to the Far Right and the Far Right are underwitten by big finance.
Great so now you dropped in the equivalent of “no u”.
I will leave it at that. Sorry dude. I offered you to agree to disagree, and you slap it while correcting me on my own words as if you knew them better than i do.
There is no point in engaging with this thread or your opinion. First because you are completely emotional about it, and second because you gonna argue in bad faith even when met critically.
There is no way to discuss a temper tantrum.
You write this without any irony. The way you accused me of sophistry, which l soundly rebutted. The way l pointed out your sophistry with explanations. The way you then cut out these arguments and accused me of just writing “no u”.
Oh and l forgot this one gem:
It wasn’t even a list of Nazis, but fascists, and the ruling ideology of India is not “0.03% parties”. The Rwandan genocide which was triggered by the Hutu Pride movement was no insignificant outlier for the Rwandans. And so on. All this is post WW2.
If you ever want to return to this then do so.
I suspect you saw the impasse looming. When l asked you to pay a few $trillion USD to the developing world, your response would be “What is it to do with me? I’m Hungarian for one thing”.
Then of course l would say: Well you are commenting on other nations and tacitly admitting there might be some argument in my $24 trillion USD proposal, if pitched to THOSE nations but NOT Hungary, and in any case the economic migration is to THOSE nations. Sure, Hungary may have some Turkish (= Kurdish really, trust me) Shops but these aren’t charity cases, they are businesses that contribute to Hungary.
So, l guess it’s easier to just kick the table over because l’m not settling for a score-draw.
Note also l pushed the boat out for you by stating:
Mass-migration is a sad thing, albeit necessitated by global economics
Illegals are a tribulation (in fact, as of today, in LOCAL council elections, the anti-immigration populist party Reform UK have given a huge defeat to all other main parties in the UK, this has never happened before - and it was ALL based off immigration, and this proves that 100 criminal asylum seekers are honestly, worth their weight in silver)
It is sad that we caused white flight in some towns and cities, especially Birmingham. Though l did also point out that the “No Go” areas in those places are a fake accusation, the reality is people don’t like us for being different, and we are a religious people, it’s not that we demanded Shariah law, it’s just that we have a religious identity and there was white flight so we came to dominate some locations. Actually the UK government does offer Shariah law courts for people as they are quicker and easier, and in fact non-Muslims use these Islamic shariah courts too:
the ruling ideology of india is fascism, also russia’s
ok
Yes, hundreds of videos you can look at even on youtube, thousands of documented cases, everything is all lies, because the evil troglodyte whayt ppl have it out for you for absolutely no reason whatsoever at all, they must be all f-ing racist solely on the color of their white skin or smth.
Muslims are god’s grace and sunshine given to this world. They are innocent little lambs who are not even capable of doing wrong. Everyone who says otherwise is just a lying racist and a bigot.
Gotcha dude.
F everyone for believing their lying eyes, including the rest of europe which admitted to no go zones existing.
Also many Muslims are white e.g. Bosniaks, some Serbs and Croats, many Bulgarians, many Turks, etc. etc. My religion states all races of Believer are equal except in their degree faith, that is the only delineator before God.
Yes and no. God didn’t give us, he didn’t choose us. We chose him and we constantly toil in worship of him.
The rest of what you wrote is just being silly, sarcasm, life is too short for that.
Hey listen. Forget all these complex arguments about how problems are complex and need complex solutions. It’s easier to just cut the beggar’s outstretched hand off. Zuppp. Easy. Or even easier: tap away on a computer about how the space age countries need to change their ways becuz some thought-terminating cliches about Evil People. [ok that was a bit sarcastic but i already gave copious arguments, so it’s not in lieu of argumentation, it’s supplementary ]
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