The Psychology of Jesus Christ

When we look at the story of Jesus Christ, it becomes hard to separate the fact from the fiction. Was he the son of God? Was he not? Was he just a man or was he more? Did he even exist? I find that a good amount of people today do question the existence of Christ and not without good reason. The whole concept of the holidays that the church of those days took from Pagans only serves as reminder that Christ’s birth date and day of resurrection did not occur on the dates mentioned in the modern interpretation of the bible.

The Bible itself, which we are to take on blind faith is the written word of God is even less trustworthy, for it contradicts not only itself but the intelligence of its readers. It is not to say that the bible does not have good values and morals in it and that is what keeps people hooked into what has been made of religion and it’s not their fault as far as non-religious people like to think it is. It’s not weak to want something to believe in, it’s not weak to see the possible truth of something even though we don’t understand it.

I believe that even if Christ did not exist in the sense that we think of him, something like him had to have existed at least once in our history for us to even have the concept of him.

Therefore, I wanted to take a look at Christ in a way that many have deemed it taboo to think of him as: a man and one we can understand full well.

To start, Jesus was born at a special time; whether this was winter solstice or not is up for debate, but that it drew the attention of others is not without merit. Whether the star in the sky that night was meant to guide those three men to the hut or not, They found their way and thought the child to be special. Whether or not they showed up or not at all, Mary thought her child was special, for she believed herself to have been visited by an Angel that told her that her son would be the messiah.

As much as one may try, that belief would have made its way out in her actions and her son would have picked up on it in one way or the other, especially if it got brought up often. Enter Joseph, a good, god-fearing man. As much as any of us may like to believe in the concept of God, who in their right mind is going to believe their wife when she winds up pregnant saying it was immaculate conception? I’m sure he loved her, as he did stay with her and helped raise Jesus, who he also loved; but there had to have always been that question in his head and if his paranoia got the better of him, as it often gets the better of people today, would he not fight with Mary?

I believe that they tried not to fight in front of Yeshua, and never fought violently, but that it was impossible not to overhear. Mary, for believing her son to be special and to be the messiah, would have ensured that he was well-raised and disciplined and received the best education at the time, which was only to be found in church. Yeshua was exceptional, whether due to divinity or natural selection or due to the specific combination of all psychological aspects that played a part in his life. I don’t believe either Mary or Joseph to have been stupid or to have been as blind as others, for they existed outside of society; a society similar in many ways to our modern one.

Therefore, what we have is a child who is curious about everything and has a mind that is fairly sharp and he begins asking questions in Church, something that before then was unheard of. He stood out and gained attention, which had to have caused the other boys, and probably girls some times, to tease and make fun of him and bully him. If this were the case, then I would imagine that he didn’t react well to this even if Mary and Joseph had thought to warn him of it. And, as often is with kids and discipline, the discipline is seen as a form of torture and unwarranted. He most surely would have rebelled, though not as much as other kids, for his strengths were in the love of learning and wisdom and love itself.

And, he would have certainly had more than that to rebel against. What would you do or say if you were told that you were the Messiah? How do you handle that much responsibility? How can you look at your faulty self and see the possibility of being such a thing? Your inner struggle would be so much more than anyone elses because there would be so much conflict between what you are and what you’re expected of being. You have this impossible picture of this savior of humanity; how do you deal with it?

The fact that there are years of his life missing from the bible only further cements this in; for if the church wanted to keep people subjugated properly, as it was so firmly tied into the state at the time, then it had to ensure that nobody became so much like this guy who almost ruined it for them. I believe that Yeshua made the mistakes of every man during this time and that he glut and lust and indulge in pride and sin until he realized that it wasn’t what he wanted at all. Cue where the story picks up again and we see a man ready to give up on life and kill himself and so he wanders into the desert and stays there for weeks.

During his wandering through the dusty winds and dunes, he finds a will to live to deny his wish for death and begins eating and drinking what he can, including a form of hallucinatory cactus fruit which amplified his own inner struggle and torment, his own fight between good and evil, to an epic level of confrontation. Most assuredly the devil did tempt him and most assuredly, Yeshua did overcome it by finding and rooting himself in to the nature of both himself and the world around him. And thus he entered back into the world of man knowing exactly what he had to do and what he could and what he would do: he would die to give people something to believe in and something worth fighting for. He would die to give people a path to the infinite that would endure even if it got twisted and corrupted; that people would see for thousands of years past his death; because he saw it.

He saw it in the midst of his fight with the Devil, because as the Devil tempted him and tempted him, he got more angry and mad and fought with passionate vigor for the people other than himself. All those people in willful ignorance that were lost and trapped due to the machinations of others. When he saw the goodness of his own self to be so thoughtless, he cast aside the worries and fears that had plagued him, because he knew what he was behind all of his mistakes and problems.

He began to fulfill the prophecies set by the bible; prophecies the church had made themselves to prevent people from becoming such a messiah, because they liked their power. ‘Nobody will do these things for the sake of all those other people,’ they mused. Though many did try and by trying directly to be like this messiah so they could have the glory that was in the bible and the attention of all people because they desired attention, they were never able to reach that point. And, it was because they went in search of it for those reasons that they never found it. By trying directly to be this messiah, even without ulterior motive, many have failed.

It was his own pain and suffering that drove him, not thoughts of glory or of having power over men: he truly wanted to save them and set them free. He traveled and found followers and healed those who could not hear the voice of nature any more and healed those who could not see nature any more and he caused those dead in spirit to live again. Not true miracles, you see, but metaphors. He did many great things for a lot of people just by being nice and humble and shared his knowledge freely. When he started his church because people wanted to hear more of what he had to say, the church got mad for he spoke against their power; the power they held over men. They called him heretic and spat upon him and he was not well-received.

But, he could take it because it was nothing he hadn’t dealt with before and he knew his cause and purpose. Looking at his friends, he knew what was in their hearts and souls and knew where their strengths and weaknesses lay because he paid attention to them; far more than they paid attention to him because they were still focused on their own problems while he had solved his. In this way, he knew Judas would betray him and he knew that others would deny even knowing him. He knew he was going to die because with all of the ignorance in the world by those in power and their control over the minds of the multitude in that false power, there was no other possible outcome. He did it anyway.

2,000 years later, he still lives in so many hearts and souls and remains impossible to kill and the world has been irrevocably changed by him, even if certain things have been falsified. That is the impact that one man can make. Just one man who lived life on the outside instead of the inside and found greater wisdom and strength of purpose through overcoming. Also, a great story for the properties of hallucinogenics, as they greatly amplify the power of the brain and its abilities. Jesus on drugs? pshaw. Moses did speak to a burning bush, though and we don’t think of that as odd. wink, wink.

Yes, we can look at Jesus from many perspectives, but in the end … what do we know? We know what we think of him and what our story is, when we speak of him. That is enough!

My question is whether you have read any of the multiple “lives of Jesus” which various authors have attempted? You might find a lot of what you said in what they have written.

That being so, you give little to discuss. Is there something that you would like to ask, or are you just making a statement?

I wonder if your words ever sound lame to you when you say them.

  1. you push forth a common thesis in philosophers who believe themselves to be philosophers:

“but in the end … what do we know?”

which is a good thing to end on, after you give some long-winded analysis of your own.

  1. you have placed it at the beginning of your statement, which tends to show you have nothing worth saying on the matter at all.

  2. “My question is whether you have read any of the multiple “lives of Jesus” which various authors have attempted? You might find a lot of what you said in what they have written.”

My question is, what if I had? An even better question follows my initial smartass reply: what if I hadn’t? For, truthfully, I haven’t. And what might I find by reading such except reinforcement of these ideas through the fact that many others have had similar thoughts regarding this subject.

  1. “That being so, you give little to discuss. Is there something that you would like to ask, or are you just making a statement?”

The fact that there is so little to discuss doesn’t make you wonder in the slightest about A. your abilities to critically think as a philosopher and B. the possibility that the things I have said really don’t leave much room for argument because C. It fits so perfectly into the picture that it has a higher likelihood of being true than false.

which leads us to:

  1. Did I end on a question? Does it appear that I am searching for answers? Answers that history seems ill-suited to give? And if I were searching for such answers, do you think it’s possible that I will ever find those answers? Answers that are denied to all other human beings for lack of having been in that situation themselves. We can only hope to either take the words of our fellow man partially on faith or not to take them on faith. There is only so much that there is TO KNOW so long after the fact. What would you like for me to be doing here? Would you like me to be asking a question? Would you like me to be making a statement? If yes to either one, which question or statement do you think I should be asking/making?

You have made the mistakes of the amateur/lazy philosopher and you have made yourself sound intelligent by craft of laying words down alongside of each other in an intelligent fashion and yet you undermine that intelligence with the nature of your words. Is philosophy just a hobby for you to make yourself feel better, or is it that driving passion in your life? Do you need it to have some sort of reaffirmation of your own intelligence, enough to ‘fake it’?

At first, I read this and it kind of brought me down. I was like, ‘really?’

It’s akin to this response I got in another forum:

“I think this is well written, enjoyable, but another myth based on our modern compulsion to focus on ‘space-men’. You should wrtie a novel about this.”

To which I responded with:

I’m sorry, but there are some very good reasons to believe that early astronauts from other aliens species have directly influenced our historical representatives . I’m sorry I couldn’t be more ‘hipster’ or ‘unique’ for you, but I’m not going to change up a possibility that I believe in just because it’s already popular and people want to see something newer and fresher.

It’s not really a modern compulsion, though, is it? We have been searching the skies ever since we realized the skies were there, and wondering what is up there and the truth of the matter is that we don’t know what’s out there. All modern evidence of alien interaction with past civilizations could entirely be an invention of our modern culture; people photoshopping the actual evidence to get people to believe in the possibility of aliens. But, the more and more I look at Biblical records and at mythology in general, I see a very large possibility of there being an advanced alien race; at least one; that has interacted with our species and that we have confused them for Gods due to their advanced technology. There is quite a lot of evidence supporting this if one wishes to remove their blindfolds and actually look. Just the same as there is a lot of evidence of God existing throughout nature if one only removes their blindfolds and just look.

I’m not going to write a book; I don’t believe in profiting like that off of exercises in critical thinking. Whether this is true or not, it does defy the modern interpretation of the written word of the bible and as such, it forces people to think beyond their current parameters to actually question their beliefs and why they believe them as they’re written. Because, until beliefs are questioned extensively and there are allowances made for having people lie to us; whether knowing or unknowingly; there’s going to be much the same division that has been present in society that does cause people to look at what’s going on in the world and then to shake their heads in disappointment or dismay at what they see.

And I received this reply, as well, which was similarly an attempt to utilize popular notions among wannabe scholars today wherein they make the mistake of citing history as if it were infallible; because it is ‘canon’ just as much as the bible and just as much as Marvel Superhero Comicbooks:

"And nevermind the the fact that the earliest historical mention of Lilith as Adam’s wife comes from somewhere around the 8th-10th century AD, and hails from a satirical text that makes fun of biblical figures (eg, the prophet Nathan is said to fart after every prophecy he makes).

The idea of Lilith as a wife of Adam is not biblical. It’s not even rabbinical. There’s no “smoking gun” text where Lilith is removed from the story. It’s based on a farcical text that has unfortunately been coopted by the internet and spread large scale misinformation on the topic.

And just so you know I’m not just making this up, take some time to research the “alphabet of Ben Sira”, this is the origin of the Lilith-Adam allegations."

To which I responded:

You see, my analysis was made under the assumption that historical references lie to us. I’m not getting too hung up on the ‘fact’ that Lilith is not biblical. You say it’s not even Rabbinical and yet the evidence I looked up said differently. The fact is that there is much to be said about Lilith that isn’t said anymore. For supposedly having no roots in biblical canon and having been created supposed in the 11th century, it’s surprising that it has made its way to the present. Jews who rejected the idea of Jesus Christ as their savior have accepted Lilith as Adam’s First wife. I have a tendency to believe that they weren’t hasty in accepting Lilith purely on the idea that ‘she might have been there’.

I understand full well the “Ben-Sira” is the supposed origin of Lilith and Adam. I’m saying it wasn’t. I’m saying that people were lied to and that this supposed source was actually just a means to keep an old story alive after the state and church had agreed to kill it off. Do you have a bible that dates back before the 11th century? I doubt it. You don’t know the fact of what you say any more than I do and yet I would rather trust being the detective and assuming that mankind has been scheming and manipulating mankind for ages. Those in power have often wanted to keep their power and there have been a variety of reasons 1. to lie about Lilith’s personality in the first place and her relationship with Adam, and 2. to lie about Lilith’s existence at such a time when they wanted women to not have a strong role model. The fact that we have such recent history of women fighting for their rights and then recent evidence of men stomping on those rights before then, in the salem witch trials, the idea that Lilith was removed from popular canon in the 11th century or previously is not such an absurd thought.

I challenge your rigid thinking with another possibility.

It’s funny how some will believe something just because it was written 900 years ago and yet people won’t believe in what some people have to say today. It’s like they think that just because it’s historical, it’s more accurate than the modern people who lie and trick us. ‘Oh, the people of 900 to 1500 years ago would NEVER lie to us! We have such a great relationship!’

(and yes, I know this mentions bits from my other psychological assessment of Adam and Eve. I combined them into a single thread on this other forum, so it’s hard to separate the two and much of the nature of the comments espoused by that section is similar to your approach in this.)

It is the attempt at critical thought without the full exploration of such critical thought. And, where do people even begin to criticize it? By underplaying the value of what has been said by making such attempts as these to disguise the fact that they have nothing really to say on the matter, because it’s rather convincing and compelling.

Jesus is the superego personified. It had to happen at least once in history.

Well, thanks for the reply, I’m not sure how I provoked the aggression, I was in fact being polite. If you want to go on the books as being a critical spirit who makes good analysis of the subjects you write about, I’d suggest you read something on the same subject from other people, otherwise you repeat old-hat and stay in your own head.

As to having nothing to say, I have in the past written much about Christ, but if you can’t be bothered to read anything other people have written, even within ILP, then it isn’t me who is philosophically lazy, is it?

If you also continue with this kind of reply, you will find yourself ignored … Which can’t be what you want, judging from the amount you have written.

Yeah, I was being polite, too. If you see me calling a spade a spade as being aggressive, that’s on you. If you really want to see me get aggressive, just say the word and I will show you the difference so you have some understanding instead of just dropping words from your mouth without thought. The fact that I have stumbled upon the same things as others without reading those books that they have written shows just how much I don’t stay in my own head and how much I am not repeating old-hat. Just because it might be old-hat to you because you read those books doesn’t mean it is for everyone and that is a flaw for you.

Yeah, I’ll read what other people have written but I’m sorry if I haven’t yet had the chance to go scouring through your old posts just to find something that might relate to this here. I think it would be upon you to provide that supporting knowledge. Do you know just how many posts have been made on these forums already? It says on the front page. Yet, you expect me; within a week of my arrival; to have already gone through the majority of those to find your posts that you have written so you can be lazy instead of just repeating yourself and then you call me lazy.

Go ahead and ignore me. Like I give two fucks. Like I even give one fuck. You just got called on your fucking bullshit and now you sit there like some sort of petulant little bitch-child getting all in a huff for being confronted over it, because you think you have earned a right to be lazy, or you feel that your intelligence has done enough to convince other people of it and so now you don’t have to do anymore, or maybe you just figure that you can bluff your way through this instead of actually having something concrete to put behind your words. You’re just another hypocrite who felt the need to add to your own self-importance and now you’re backpedaling and looking stupid.

When you want to tear someone down and say in a roundabout way that what they said wasn’t worth saying while you sit there saying nothing yourself, expect confrontation. I don’t take that shit from anyone and I will expect you to be thorough with your replies instead of allowing you to be lazy; because it is a lot harder to build something worthwhile than it is to tear it down and I’ll be damned if you just walk all over my fun without even putting forth adequate effort. If you think that’s unfair that I call you to the task of proving you are a critical thinker instead of allowing you to just claim to be, then that’s tough shit, isn’t it.

I’m sorry, but I think you must be mistaken. This isn’t the place to have a brawl, that is probably just down your street in the local bar. We try to learn from each other here, we read and discuss, we have differing opinions but that is what we are here for. If you want a fight, you’ll have to look for it in some other place - unless you want to come to Germany, I’m sure there a few people here who could accommodate you.

I’ll just put you on the ignore list so don’t expect any more replies from me.

Watch your back!

Read “A Hero with a Thousand Faces” by Joseph Campbell to find many more.

I think you’re mistaken, this isn’t the place to allow non-philosophers to ruin the work of real philosophers. You still yet refuse to provide proof that you are a real philosopher and continue to deflect and insult again. Your fight or flight response is activated and you’re doing nothing more than saving face. You are a disgrace to the name ‘Bob’, sir.

You see, I used to believe that everything could be solved with words or talking. I believed once that you could talk reason and sense to people and that they would listen. I believed once that love was enough and that with pure love and no pain brought by that love that the world could be made better. Then, I grew up.

I realized: people only want to listen to what they have to say, so vain are they. They often choose to forsake reason and sense and wisdom. They choose the paths of self-delusion to avoid looking at themselves with a closer view and to avoid noticing their own countless flaws. I realized further that people like you existed that made it impossible not to turn to violence for the solving of our problems.

Believe me, I was once the idealistic youth that wanted to believe it was possible to live in a world where no bad existed and as I grew, I realized that to be impossible, because as I grew, I realized the strength and wisdom that came from extreme pain and suffering, if one chose to embrace wisdom and pain and suffering. The discipline my parents gave me, the psychotic behavior of my step-dad towards me in his petty and vindictive exorcising of his own inner demons, the constant bullying and teasing of other kids in school; all of it; gave me nothing but wisdom and strength and courage and enabled me to see the suffering inherent in all men, including you.

You suffer a lot and refuse to feel that suffering. You love and refuse to feel that love for somewhere in your life, someone refused to show you love and due to your spoiled behavior of always having to get what you want, you have become what you have. You see the world as you do because you couldn’t have things exactly the way you wanted them. You do realize the faulty nature of your own arguments and of your environment while being raised, of your own thoughts that have lead you thus to this point in your life.

You think that there is no road branching off the path you’re on and so you have bound yourself to that path and in thus binding yourself to that path instead of having the courage to step off and find deeper wisdom, you have sealed your own doom and while it may not be at my hand or by my words, it is an inevitability that is destined to occur. As I said earlier, you have already chosen your path and there is only one response to that path by those who entertain true wisdom and reason and sense.

Jesus is a mythological character.

Jehovah is an archetypal king, an archetypal alpha male.

The ten commandments are an archetypal code of laws.

Sin is an archetypal collective debt owed to the archetypical alpha male and his law code.

Jesus, is an archetypal sacrificial prince, coming to cancel societies collective debt, for every man supposedly owed more than he could pay.

There’d be no room in hell, an archetypal prison, to put all the sinners in, because society (not an archetypal society but Israel/Judea/Rome) had become wicked and corrupt.

So Jehovah cancelled the debts, through his son, Jesus, he wiped the slate clean, so society could go on, begin anew.

The moral of the story is mercy, about how a wise and good king is merciful, or at least balances vengeance and justice with mercy, and so should his subjects.

The whole thing is merely an abstraction of things that can be found on earth, a metaphor.

Like all myths, it’s essentially rooted in the world, but over embellished and magnified.

People began thinking the representation of the real was more real than reality itself.

idioticidioms—I sent you warning related to your post of 12/14/13 @ 1:17am. If you have any question about it please PM me.

What principles of human psychology do you hold? Do assume that Jesus was God and if so do your psychological principles apply to Jesus insofar as he is God? Or do you assume that he was merely one of our species?

Ah, now that’s a good question. I believe we are all God, insofar as our limited parameters allow us to be. We are individuals, but we also belong to a collective consciousness that rests below the surface of who we are. That consciousness itself is what we would call God and is nature. That all are connected by having their base atoms be the same as the base atoms of everything else, reacting differently based on their individual personalities and groupings within groupings. Each add to different amounts and create different styles of art all throughout nature and yet must run on the very fundamentals we have begun to figure out in our study of mathematical spirituality, though few have actually called it a form of spirituality.

Jesus was an exceptional man, but no more exceptional than any person could have been or could have chosen to be. He probably would have chosen to fit in if he could, but he had already been tampered with before even interacting with other children in town; by his parents who cemented his basis in love and learning and wisdom. Their personalities. It was all chance, but bound to happen at one point in time or another. We know that every man is created different because all values differentiate, and yet each man remains equal to the whole of the sum of each other.

Jesus became what he became simply because he was the tenth man of the tenth man of the tenth man, and that becomes our species safeguard when we start getting out of control of our selves. He became what he became simply because he had to; it was adaptation and it was math and it was everything else combined into one. His strengths became his strengths because so many others denied them as their strengths and he became stronger because of it. For every action, there must be an equal and opposite reaction. The more people deny that reaction, the worse the reaction becomes. Or, the better, depending on how you look at it.

I believe that every man has the propensity to be the same as each other in terms of emotional stability and intelligence; not accounting those with severe disabilities that render them mentally handicapped; and not defining mentally handicapped as aspbergers or any similar disease to it, such as OCD; as those are things that can be overcome with will and in due time. Intelligence is not restricted in those diseases and the diseases are often, in fact, created by the intelligence itself. I believe that it is the underlying nurture; not nature, that defines our personalities and our choices.

Nature accounts for our talents, but nurture accounts for our choices and how we use those talents. What we feel in the womb, still connected to our mothers; what we feel of the world around us growing up; what we feel and hear and see and feel more because of hearing and seeing, molds our personalities and our choices and if we never experience the full spectrum, then how can we possibly make any other philosophy save failing ones? That is why I love this modern age of movies, music, shows, games, etc. The Internet and all of its horrors and marvels… There are so many differing perspectives; so many different ways of telling the same stories.

Why couldn’t Jesus be both man and God? Why couldn’t any man? Why couldn’t he be just like us and then more? That is all any of us are: we’re a sum of who all came before us and we’re simply adding on to that. That means that we can change the math at any time and come to a different outcome that is favorable to us. We self-programmed to not willingly destroy our selves and even when we try to overcome that to do so, there is that inset safeguard that prevents such from happening. In the very nature of everything around us. That balance that people choose to push to extremes and thus create the times in which there is need of such men as Jesus Christ.

And they do it just to see him and then to sacrifice him. Because he says the things that hurt them that still ring true throughout their very essence. He is soft and yet strong. He is everything people wish they could be without putting in the effort to be. To be, or not to be? That was the question. For, it is far better for you and for everyone else to be than it is not to be. There are only two mistakes in life: never starting, and not going all the way.

You go ahead and do what you feel you have to. I am not a tame creature and I won’t pretend to be.

Participation on the forum is conditional. I suggest reading the forum rules.

And after that please present at least some of the psychology of Jesus Christ. I’m itchin’ fer it.

I done told you to do what you feel you have to do. I’m not sure what part of that was misunderstood. Maybe you just assumed that I didn’t read your rules. I don’t care about your silly little rules that you put in place to keep people happy and to save your own asses by having ‘secure’ guidelines to push off from, so… Do. what. you. feel. you. have. to. do. There, is that spelled out enough for you?

And, nice slight. As if I hadn’t posted already about the psychology of Christ. Oh, wait, you were waiting for fancy terms, weren’t you. Something that the layman would have a hard time understanding. This is too straightforward for you, isn’t it.

C’mon, be just as petty as everyone else and just get it over with. Someone entered among you and wow’ed you and weren’t what you thought they would or should be like… that’s on you, but go ahead and blame me because I simply ‘don’t follow the rules’, as if I should follow the rules I’m being confronted about. As if you shouldn’t question why you have them in the first place. A little bit too afraid of confrontation are we? A little too much of a pussy that you need to have that shit in place? can’t handle your fucking shit without threatening to ban someone?

Yeah, make a martyr out of me, motherfuckers, go the fuck ahead! When will you learn? You might as well at this point, because I shan’t be coming back here again. This is it, you had a chance and you fucked it. What was that chance? To do the right thing. Fuck your fear and insecurity and fuck your jealousy of me for overcoming mine. Oh no, he’s swearing, he’s not insulting people in a roundabout way that leaves it up for debate! It’s not that he couldnt play that game, it’s that he chooses not to because of what that game results in! Kill him by fire! Keel, keel heeeeeeeeem!!!

and nothing has fucking changed in 2000 years. Fuck you.

What is wrong with you? Your stepfather seems to have really done you bad and now your projecting it all over the place. In your present state you seem unpredictable and are as likely to hit someone as to shake their hand.

Suit yourself.