The Rationale of Political Philosophy.

“Islamic philosophy shared the ancient view that man is a special kind of being; that his ability to reason—his power to know himself and the whole—is the activity that marks him as different from other animals; and that reasoning is therefore the ultimate purpose of his existence. It regarded this difference between man and other living beings as a radical one—as radical as, if not more radical than, the difference between inanimate and animate beings, the soulless and the souled.” (Source: Muhsin Mahdi, Alfarabi and the Foundation of Islamic Political Philosophy, page 16.)

“[T]here is a greater distance between human and human than between human and beast.” (Source: Laurence Lampert, Nietzsche’s Task, page 281.)

“[T]his kind of man that he [Zarathustra] conceives [i.e., the Superman], conceives reality as it is: it is strong enough for that—, it is not estranged from it, not engrossed in something different from it, it is reality itself, it contains even all its frighteningness and questionableness, only with that can man have greatness…” (Source: Nietzsche, Ecce Homo, “Why I Am a Destiny”, section 5; my translation.)

This world is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power—and nothing besides!” (Source: Nietzsche, The Will to Power, section 1067; Walter Kaufmann’s translation.)

“[A] man is the not yet fixed, not yet established beast (aph. 62): man becomes natural by acquiring his final, fixed character. For the nature of a being is its end, its completed state, its peak (Aristotle, Politics 1252b 32-34). ‘I too speak of “return to nature,” although it is properly not a going back but an ascent—up into the high, free, even terrible nature and naturalness . . .’ (Twilight of the Idols, “Skirmishes of an untimely man” nr. 48). Man reaches his peak through and in the philosopher of the future as the truly complementary man in whom not only man but the rest of existence is justified (aph. 207). He is the first man who consciously creates values on the basis of the understanding of the will to power as the fundamental phenomenon. His action constitutes the highest form of the most spiritual will to power and therewith the highest form of the will to power.” (Source: Leo Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, “Note on the Plan of Nietzsche’s Beyond Good and Evil”.)

“A Nietzschean history of philosophy recovers in Plato what is fundamental to all the greatest philosophers, what ultimately moves or motivates them. Most fundamental are two passions or loves. Philosophy is the passion to understand the whole rationally, the love of wisdom that is, Socrates indicated in the Symposium, the highest eros of a whole that can be understood as eros and nothing besides. Political philosophy, the acts of communication and legislation undertaken on behalf of that primary passion, is driven by love of the human, philanthropy[. …] Philanthropy, a now common word, has an uncommon sense in the philosophers, for it denotes action on behalf of the human in its highest reach, the reach for understanding. A Nietzschean history of political philosophy studies the actions undertaken by the greatest thinkers to further the human through the advancement of philosophy.” (Source: Lampert, How Philosophy Became Socratic, pp. 13-14.)

So all of us are a part of, yet so apart, (so close yet so far). Just wanted to make a draconian comment.

But one question: is the superman absolutely super, or relatively? Again a no answer will not be considered slightly.

Are you taking notes? I don’t think any political group is aiming for the overman or even for wisdom via philosophy.

I’d say the superman can only be relatively super.
Also he may be surpassed by even more super men, each more super than the last, in an eternally reoccuring process.

Only the political group consisting of Homer, Plato, Machiavelli, Nietzsche, and the like…

Indeed:

"[Zarathustra] does not conceal the fact that his type of man, a relatively superhuman type, is superhuman precisely in relation to the good, that the good and just would call his Superman devil… (Source: Nietzsche, Ecce Homo, “Why I Am a Destiny”, section 5; my translation.)

“[…] a higher type […]: something that in relation to collective mankind is a kind of Superman.” (Source: Nietzsche, The Antichrist, section 4; my translation.)

“[…] that majority who are decent and just.” (Source: Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, “Intermission: Excerpts from the notebooks of Lazarus Long”.)

I disagree; Plato was neither more nor less “super” than Homer, Socrates neither more nor less “super” than Odysseus!

Without the reasoning being the cause of belief, it is religion.
What is the rationale behind attempting to become a superman?

“God is great”
“God is dead”
“Love is good”
“Hate is good”
“There is no Good”
“Nihilism spawns greatness”
“Ubermensch is good”

… all preachings, void of philosophical content.

What is the rationale, the purpose and point, in encouraging and aspiring to become “Superman”?
…politically or otherwise.

The Zionists seek Neo to overcome the System. - Why?
The System seeks the perfect Teseract to control the universe. - Why?

“Will to Power” - Why?
How many wars are to be inspired and thereby murdering billions of people before you face the truth as to the rationale for why you are doing it?
The Nazis and the Khazars, two God-wannabes.

aka… Why do you want to conquer the world?” Or
Why should Man want to control the universe and be God?”

If you’re asking me for a reason for reasoning, you have misunderstood me; there is no such thing. And in any case, this is not about the rationale of philosophy but about the rationale of political philosophy.

I’ve already responded to the “aspiring” half of this question. As for the “encouraging” half, a Superman encourages others to Supermanhood out of love of the wise, which precedes even his love of wisdom.

A philosopher philosophises because of his individual nature; he politicises because of his shared nature with other philosophers. The philosopher is the natural man, the nature of man.

“Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman—a rope over an abyss.
A dangerous crossing, a dangerous wayfaring, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous trembling and halting.
What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an over-going and a down-going.” (Source: Nietzsche. Thus Spake Zarathustra, “Zarathustra’s Prologue”, section 4; Thomas Common’s translation.)

Man’s natural goal, man’s natural end, is the Superman.

If you asked that question, then you misunderstood me.

I am well aware that it is “natural” for Man to lust to be God.
I am asking for what purpose he so aspires, what rationale is there for such a goal?
Why should it be considered a good thing?

You mean the question whether you were asking me for a reason for reasoning?..

I never said it should be considered a good thing—which by the way is tantamount to saying it’s a good thing to consider it a good thing… It is considered a good thing inasmuch as it’s seen to give the highest feeling of power.

Of course it gives the sense of power.
So does creating massive destruction, the ability to turn nations against nations.
The thought that you can flick your finger and cause the murder of billions of people would be quite a rush, I’m sure.

My only question was WHY WOULD YOU WANT SUCH POWER?

Other than giving you a hardon, what actual purpose does it serve?

James: Nietzche’s will to power is two fold. There is the will to power, and then there is the will to power on an established will.

It is a progression, and it beckons or begs for a moral value. Nietzche doesn’t supply on in Christian morality, but he does point out the responsibility of superior types to protect the interests of not only themselves, but of those beneath them.

He never advocates blind power for it’s own sake, except an acceptance of the application of higher types dominating lower types, and recognizing this as a legitimate naturally recurring order.

 Social awareness within this schema will insure the advancing of a progressive social order based on the protection of interests up and down this hierarchy.

Those two concerns are incompatible.

Perhaps rather than ask why one should desire the superman, I should ask why one should want any particular social order that would require a superman.

Not long ago, you had a battle between the superman and the invisible man for domination of the entire world. Today you have the result of that, a “super-invisible man” (aren’t we special :icon-rolleyes: ).

And yet the question was never answered, “for what actual purpose?
Whom does it really serve to have a superman dominating everyone else?

What
is
the
Rationale?

Your point is well taken. In any social hierarchy, the net result is a pecking order. Since a concept of a utilitarian or objective ethics has been shown to be. Problematic, as in a Kantianism, Nietzche never solves the is-ought controversy. All he is saying, is, that from his point of view, traditional Christianity has held down the power of the yea saying affirmation of the here and now life in favor of deference to a here after.

I am not saying that this is no my viewpoint, but for the sake of argument, let’s see it as Nietzche did.

For what purpose? To find a valuation in what N thought was beneficial to everyone, , to solve the problem from the point of view of a schematics, which as a matter of rule happens all the time.

The superman will in this schema will view others’ interests as incorporated within his own. That is the rationale

The rationale is always the same. And for all of us: The survival and the reproduction of any particular community of human beings.
Without a sustained access to food and water and shelter no community can hope to survive. And then, having secured that, it must then sustain the capacity to defend itself from those who would seek to take it all away [from without] or gobble it all up for themselves [from within]. And, in turn, it must sustain an environment conducive to the reproduction of the community.

That’s true for all of us, of course.

But then we get to the part about how this is to actually be accomplished. And that seems to change over time historically and across space culturally.

If there is one overarching rationale here, I have yet to come across it. Except in a world of words. But how hard can that be when you get to say what they all mean?

If folks want to talk about the Superman [or the relationship between political philosophy and political values], fine. But with respect to what particular human interactions? Why one rationale and not another?

Thank you for actually comprehending and addressing the question.

And that is the extended purpose in asking it.

What the Nietzschian proponents don’t seem to understand is that their “Ubermensch” has already been created. That was an issue of WW2 and slightly beyond so as to ensure the thought of it being a good thing.

But to promote such a goal today is about the same as trying to inspire people into an industrial age. It is a little late in the game.

What you are experiencing all around you right now is that domination that you have been promoting. You already have what you “prayed for” (and preyed for). What you seemed to have missed is that element of super-invisibility.

How much more super could you get than to be able to influence without anyone even knowing that you are there? And since that is the natural strategic result, at what point do you stop trying to create it and realize that you are already in it?

So perhaps it is better to ask why anyone really wanted it and now that they have it, what they are going to do with it… and with you.

And also realize that once formed, by definition, there is nothing you could do about it, good, bad, or indifferent. Or as Billy Willy puts it, “The Death of the Individual”. In reality there can be only one life when total domination is established. And it isn’t that of yours.

They say. You obey. Comply or die.

And look how you are even tricked into promoting it more - “self-sustaining”, a snake feeding off of its own tail. And you still don’t see him, thinking that your thoughts are your own, as any psychologically led child would.

Not the highest feeling of power. Anyway…

Ultimately, there is no other purpose than the feeling of power.

Purpose can be created in virtually any way or form. The amount of possibilities are like the ones you get with a large amount of lego blocks. The possible different ways of setting it up keep on compounding the more pieces you get.

 The antichrist  was not Hitler, according to most scholars, that sort of interpretation was grossly misapplied.  The superman  probably means  a totally evolved man, fair, square, even handed and responsible.  That the public is easy to mislead, doesn't make such aberration, as the antichrist  equal to the intent of a deep thinker.  I think it does show a disservice.  It is a cliche by now that absolute power corrupts absolutely, however the anti christ's nemesis when lead up to a mountain top had the serpent offer him all worldly goods, which Christ was able to reject.  Jesus , was  unable to lay the groundwork for a post industrial post modern society.  Its not he didn't understand,only he couldn't make people understand.  Maybe things have changed, since his time.

No. The answer to the question “what are you doing it for” is ultimately always “for the feeling of power it gives me”.