the REALLY big questions

[turtle]

There are some partial answers to the two greatest questions if you check out science.
#1 Origin of universe
#2 Origin of life

[Ganapati]

@iambiguous

@maryshelley

And no one can rationally explain why there is something rather than nothing. Especially considering that many scientists believe the universe itself came into existence out of nothing at all.

Hold on there cowboy. Did the universe come into existence out of nothing at all? I have always had my doubts about that and so do some scientists such as Professor Roger Penrose. His colleague Professor Hawking did try to explain how the universe could come into existence from nothing at all.

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems beyond comprehension [my comprehension, anyway] that something can burst into existence out of nothing at all. And, alas, most of us are simply not educated enough to grasp this much beyond the most rudimentary levels of understanding. But what has always fascinated me listening to those who are educated enough to offer a truly informed point of view, is how their calculations about the big bang at the beginning have proven to be right on the money regarding the way the universe is today.

But how can something exist forever or come into existence out of nothing at all? Either way it is mind boggling.

In Qunatum Mechanics two states whose difference is less than the minimum uncertainty allowed by Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle are indistinguishable (for a consciousness of whatever nature).

So if the energy of the universe is close to zero (positive energy of matter and radition equal to the negative energy of gravitation) a universe with nothing in it is indistinguishable from a universe with all of what we see and lasting for some time (even forever if the energy is zero), since energy and time are complementary properties, just as position and momentum are in the popularly known version of Heisenberg’s Uncertainty principle. So a universe such as ours, assuming it has zero net energy, could come into existence spontaneously from nothing, because Qunatum Mechanically speaking there is no difference between the two!

If that “explanation” doesn’t leave you feeling any wiser after reading it, don’t worry, QM has that effect on most people

[maryshelley]

@arcturus rising

maryshelley

It’s not in history of time its in this:

In “The Grand Design,” co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist,” Hawking writes.

Yes, Dawkins also helped that along but the theory of ‘spontaneous creation’ doesn’t really explain how there could actually be such a thing as spontaneous creation, does it? That’s like defining a word by using the same word to define it.

Do you have a hyperlink somewhere about the gravity thing? I can sort of, in a really hazy way, see how perhaps the law of gravity and attraction prevents desruction (but who knows one day ), prevent worlds from colliding with other worlds and galaxies, but how does gravity actually create out of nothing? There is a school of thought which says that this universe was not actually the first one, that ours is not the Cause (unless indeed there is some form of energy or thought that caused it) but that this universe may be the effect of another universe that met its demise…and onward backwards…backwards, backwards…backwards… god, it is all so interesting…what i know i can fill a spoon with but little by little i hope to fill a cup.

I didn’t say I agreed with that but it can be explained theoretically.

I like this guy’s ideas: http://web.mit.edu/physics/people/faculty/tegmark_max.html
and this is pretty: http://www.nanogallery.info/news/?id=8735&slid=news&type=anews

So whilst all these folks fiddle around with the theories like WOW man:

[turtle]

Ganapati wrote-------------
In Qunatum Mechanics two states whose difference is less than the minimum uncertainty allowed by Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle are indistinguishable (for a consciousness of whatever nature).

So if the energy of the universe is close to zero (positive energy of matter and radition equal to the negative energy of gravitation) a universe with nothing in it is indistinguishable from a universe with all of what we see and lasting for some time (even forever if the energy is zero), since energy and time are complementary properties, just as position and momentum are in the popularly known version of Heisenberg’s Uncertainty principle. So a universe such as ours, assuming it has zero net energy, could come into existence spontaneously from nothing, because Qunatum Mechanically speaking there is no difference between the two!

If that “explanation” doesn’t leave you feeling any wiser after reading it, don’t worry, QM has that effect on most people
[/quote]
The scientists are unable to test this. So this is very theoretical. We really do not understand gravity. And dark matter and dark energy are being worked on. Can you explain a little bit more about quantum mechanics? What about that big bang singularity? We don’t want to throw out common sense even when dealing with QM. I love quantum mechanics.

[Boyan]

@iambiguous

•Why does anything exist at all?
•Why this existence and not another?
•Is existence infinite?
•If infinite, what does that mean?
•Or, instead, was existence created?
•If created, by what or by whom?
•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
•If so, what can that possibly mean?
•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
•What happens after we die?

And, of course: where do you and I fit into all this?!

It would seem that, once you go that far out on the metaphysical limb, rational thought itself simply implodes into the philosophical equivalent of a Black Hole. Logic may go in but what exactly comes out?

Out there is right around the corner from God, I suppose. And, in contemplating mysteries that profound, if you don’t feel something of a “mystical” sense of reality you simply aren’t going out far enough.

Consider:

You and I are but two minds on a planet of 6,600,000,000 additional minds on this tiny little planet in this tiny little solar system in this humdrum galaxy in a universe of billions of additional galaxies in what may or may not be one of an infinite number of parallel universes.

In turn, it is said that, if you put a single grain of sand in the world’s largest cathedral, there would be more volume of sand in that church than there are stars in the entire universe. In fact I was just reading a book on astonomy that showed a picture [from Hubble] of these two gigantic galaxies containing billions and billions of stars that had just collided with each other. But the authors noted there is so much space between stars, they doubt there would be even a single collision!

When push comes to shove, we are analogous to tiny little bugs living out our entire lives on the body of the world’s hairiest dog. Each morning we get up and start in on arguing about What The Dog Is. Meanwhile we are completely oblivious to everything “outside the dog”. We’re like the folks in Flatland calculating the Meaning Of Life when they have only the vaguest of clues regarding the third dimension we live in.

And what other dimensions might there be? Brian Greene in The Elegant Universe speculates there are [I believe] 13 additional dimensions given the “nature” of string theory.

Or, as the Moody Blues once lyrically proposed:

don’t you feel small?/it happens to us all

[Boyan]

•Why does anything exist at all?
It’s obviously wortwhile, if it weren’t existence would cease to be.

•Why this existence and not another?
If we know this one it doesn’t mean there aren’t others.

•Is existence infinite?
Since pure/true nothingness cannot create existence (e.g. quantum fluctuation is not nothing, it’s something) and since we (I) exist, then sure, existence has to be eternal.

•If infinite, what does that mean?
That it had no beginning, existence exist since ever.

•Or, instead, was existence created?
Various types of existence (like ours) gets created. The very essence of existence and nothingness are both eternal and absolute, and when mixed relative existence is born (like ours).

•If created, by what or by whom?
See above.

•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
See above.

•If so, what can that possibly mean?
Out of nothingness alone no existence can be created, or else that’s not nothingness, but with the mixing the nothingness with absolute and fundamental essence of existence many types of relative existances canbe created.

•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
Existence is wortwhile because it brings conscious experience, and this goes from lowest state of beingness (e.g. quarks) to highest (e.g. God).

•What happens after we die?
Material body gets recycled within the material Universe, own ‘true identity’ (I amness) continues to exist.

•And, of course: where do you and I fit into all this?!
We fit just fine, we exist, live, experience and evolve, just as we should.

[Boyan]

Above questions by OP iambiguous.

[Boyan]

Sorry, was duplicate.

[JohnJones]

@iambiguous

•Why does anything exist at all?
•Why this existence and not another?
•Is existence infinite?
•If infinite, what does that mean?
•Or, instead, was existence created?
•If created, by what or by whom?
•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
•If so, what can that possibly mean?
•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
•What happens after we die?

And, of course: where do you and I fit into all this?!

It would seem that, once you go that far out on the metaphysical limb, rational thought itself simply implodes into the philosophical equivalent of a Black Hole. Logic may go in but what exactly comes out?

Out there is right around the corner from God, I suppose. And, in contemplating mysteries that profound, if you don’t feel something of a “mystical” sense of reality you simply aren’t going out far enough.

Consider:

You and I are but two minds on a planet of 6,600,000,000 additional minds on this tiny little planet in this tiny little solar system in this humdrum galaxy in a universe of billions of additional galaxies in what may or may not be one of an infinite number of parallel universes.

In turn, it is said that, if you put a single grain of sand in the world’s largest cathedral, there would be more volume of sand in that church than there are stars in the entire universe. In fact I was just reading a book on astonomy that showed a picture [from Hubble] of these two gigantic galaxies containing billions and billions of stars that had just collided with each other. But the authors noted there is so much space between stars, they doubt there would be even a single collision!

When push comes to shove, we are analogous to tiny little bugs living out our entire lives on the body of the world’s hairiest dog. Each morning we get up and start in on arguing about What The Dog Is. Meanwhile we are completely oblivious to everything “outside the dog”. We’re like the folks in Flatland calculating the Meaning Of Life when they have only the vaguest of clues regarding the third dimension we live in.

And what other dimensions might there be? Brian Greene in The Elegant Universe speculates there are [I believe] 13 additional dimensions given the “nature” of string theory.

Or, as the Moody Blues once lyrically proposed:

don’t you feel small?/it happens to us all

I can answer all of that. And I’m not amazed by any of it, certainly not by big numbers, which are in fact, quite predicatably boring. The bigger the number, the more boring it gets. That’s what I say.
That’s what this marvelous cult of awe is - boring.

[Arcturus_Descending]

@Boyan

•Why does anything exist at all?
It’s obviously wortwhile, if it weren’t existence would cease to be.

•Why this existence and not another?
If we know this one it doesn’t mean there aren’t others.

•Is existence infinite?
Since pure/true nothingness cannot create existence (e.g. quantum fluctuation is not nothing, it’s something) and since we (I) exist, then sure, existence has to be eternal.

•If infinite, what does that mean?
That it had no beginning, existence exist since ever.

•Or, instead, was existence created?
Various types of existence (like ours) gets created. The very essence of existence and nothingness are both eternal and absolute, and when mixed relative existence is born (like ours).

•If created, by what or by whom?
See above.

•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
See above.

•If so, what can that possibly mean?
Out of nothingness alone no existence can be created, or else that’s not nothingness, but with the mixing the nothingness with absolute and fundamental essence of existence many types of relative existances canbe created.

•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
Existence is wortwhile because it brings conscious experience, and this goes from lowest state of beingness (e.g. quarks) to highest (e.g. God).

•What happens after we die?
Material body gets recycled within the material Universe, own ‘true identity’ (I amness) continues to exist.

•And, of course: where do you and I fit into all this?!
We fit just fine, we exist, live, experience and evolve, just as we should.

When you think a thing, the thing you think is not the thing you think you think, but only the thing you think you think you think.

[cheegster]

Fuck, I keep fucking up these posts…

See below.

[cheegster]

@iambiguous

2 Why this existence and not another.

What would your answer be? And how would one go about answering it without, in turn, knowing the answers to all the other questions? They all probe existence from different angles.

I think Boyan had a pretty good go at the lot to be honest. To elaborate more on my reasoning behind this one:

If the question is in regards to he idea of ‘why am I living my life and not anybod elses’, or ‘why am I located here in the universe as oppsed to anywhere else?’ then it’s a simple lottery. Because of the nature of the first erson perspective, we can only have our own experiences of the world. Which is a big reason for people’s egocentrism sometimes. But anyway, all it means is that mathematically is it possible? Yeah, it is. It’s just how the universe has turned out for us. If the universe was different we may be living the existence of a dog, or a bat, or an alien somewhere. Just because it is highly improbable that things would turn out the way they have, it doesn’t mean it is not possible.

If that wasnn’t what the question meant though then you need to clarify it a bit.

[iambiguous]

@Boyan

•Why does anything exist at all?
It’s obviously wortwhile, if it weren’t existence would cease to be.

•Why this existence and not another?
If we know this one it doesn’t mean there aren’t others.

•Is existence infinite?
Since pure/true nothingness cannot create existence (e.g. quantum fluctuation is not nothing, it’s something) and since we (I) exist, then sure, existence has to be eternal.

•If infinite, what does that mean?
That it had no beginning, existence exist since ever.

•Or, instead, was existence created?
Various types of existence (like ours) gets created. The very essence of existence and nothingness are both eternal and absolute, and when mixed relative existence is born (like ours).

•If created, by what or by whom?
See above.

•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
See above.

•If so, what can that possibly mean?
Out of nothingness alone no existence can be created, or else that’s not nothingness, but with the mixing the nothingness with absolute and fundamental essence of existence many types of relative existances canbe created.

•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
Existence is wortwhile because it brings conscious experience, and this goes from lowest state of beingness (e.g. quarks) to highest (e.g. God).

•What happens after we die?
Material body gets recycled within the material Universe, own ‘true identity’ (I amness) continues to exist.

•And, of course: where do you and I fit into all this?!
We fit just fine, we exist, live, experience and evolve, just as we should.

These are answers, of course. But how seriously should we take them? For example, what evidence do you have that any of them are actually true. And how can they be either verified or falsified? They seem to be just sheer speculation to me. In other words, intellectual contraptions.

[iambiguous]

@JohnJones

I can answer all of that. And I’m not amazed by any of it, certainly not by big numbers, which are in fact, quite predicatably boring. The bigger the number, the more boring it gets. That’s what I say.
That’s what this marvelous cult of awe is - boring.

To the best of my knowledge there is still a rather significant difference being saying you can answer something and actually doing so.

I have a high tolerance for boredom, though, so give it a shot. Pick the hardest one, of course.

[Boyan]

@iambiguous

These are answers, of course. But how seriously should we take them?

I’d not recommend taking them too seriously, for I don’t think there are any absolute answers in relative realm. They are true to me though, not just logicaly, it’s based on experience too. But even if I cannot doubt them when I try, this doesn’t mean I am not ready to dump them if/when greater truth is realized.

@iambiguous

For example, what evidence do you have that any of them are actually true. And how can they be either verified or falsified? They seem to be just sheer speculation to me. In other words, intellectual contraptions.

Take them as you wish. And if they don’t resonate with you at all, you are right, it’s better to ignore them and seek those which might suit your views and feelings.

Just don’t be disappointed if you find none. Which is of course fine, but can be troubling if you’ll insist on getting them.

[Bluff]

@iambiguous

•Why does anything exist at all?
•Why this existence and not another?
•Is existence infinite?
•If infinite, what does that mean?
•Or, instead, was existence created?
•If created, by what or by whom?
•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
•If so, what can that possibly mean?
•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
•What happens after we die?

I can’t help but think this thread should’ve been titles “the REALLY useless questions.” Why does anything exist at all? Who cares, it just does, end of. Why this exixtence? Blah! It just is! Is existence infinite? Blah! Blah!! Arghh!!! There all so uttlerly void of anything…why fret yourselves of such drivel? The REALLY big questions are concerned with life. That is it. Life! All you need be concerned about is your quality of existence. And how to live unrestrained. Are your questions philosophy? Is that it? Like those cordoned-off safe zones at the beach for frivolous toe-whetting whilst the vast expanse of ocean lies beyond. Are you content in the safe-zone?

[concordant]

Various photos taken from APOD (Astronomy Picture Of the Day) showing galaxies in various stages of collision.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap100718.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090407.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080430.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080420.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080224.html

APOD is really a great site for anyone interested in astronomical imagery.

[finishedman]

You are using logic to continue that separative structure, that is all. Your questions are again thoughts and therefore reactive. All thought is reactive. You are desperately protecting this armour, this shield of thought, and are frightened that the movement of life might smash your frontiers. Life is like a river in spate, lashing at the banks, threatening the limits that have been placed around it. Your thought structure and your actual physiological framework are limited, but life itself is not. You cannot imagine how it is in your wildest dreams. This is why it is misleading no matter how it’s put.

Worth repeating:

@Bluff

Like those cordoned-off safe zones at the beach for frivolous toe-whetting whilst the vast expanse of ocean lies beyond. Are you content in the safe-zone?

[iambiguous]

@Bluff

@iambiguous

•Why does anything exist at all?
•Why this existence and not another?
•Is existence infinite?
•If infinite, what does that mean?
•Or, instead, was existence created?
•If created, by what or by whom?
•If created, out of what—nothing at all?
•If so, what can that possibly mean?
•Is there a teleological “purpose” behind existence?
•What happens after we die?

I can’t help but think this thread should’ve been titles “the REALLY useless questions.” Why does anything exist at all? Who cares, it just does, end of. Why this exixtence? Blah! It just is! Is existence infinite? Blah! Blah!! Arghh!!! There all so uttlerly void of anything…why fret yourselves of such drivel? The REALLY big questions are concerned with life. That is it. Life! All you need be concerned about is your quality of existence. And how to live unrestrained. Are your questions philosophy? Is that it? Like those cordoned-off safe zones at the beach for frivolous toe-whetting whilst the vast expanse of ocean lies beyond. Are you content in the safe-zone?

Gee, I can’t help but wonder why you should react so vociferously to something you consider to be but drivel. Einstein used to ponder these questions too. He would marvel at just how imponderable they were. How naive, eh?

[Only_Humean]

@Bluff

The REALLY big questions are concerned with life. That is it. Life! All you need be concerned about is your quality of existence. And how to live unrestrained.

Give us some examples, then, please. What if answering those questions is important for OP’s quality of existence?

Like those cordoned-off safe zones at the beach for frivolous toe-whetting whilst the vast expanse of ocean lies beyond.

Do you use a pencil sharpener for that? Ouch.