The self tortured soul

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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They tell you stuff like smoking is bad for you… How can you blame the smoke when it is your own action? I am bad for me. Indeed this opens up possibly the signs of a self tortured soul. Tortured being taken loosely, it is referring to someone who is disgruntled, jaded, overall not happy with life, the planet, people, everything. Its a common theme, one that is unavoidable throughout human history. It is even appealing to many, on a massive scale this type of persona. One who doesn’t really give a fuck about this world. Is it cool? What is this appeal towards the tortured soul, one of sympathy or respect?

The methodology of such a person is typically drastically different from the rest and it could go in an entirely different direction that is seen as apprehensible. So where do we draw the line?

What is the true root of the tortured soul and why are amends impossible? There are people who are so jaded that do not want to achieve things that make people happy, because the means to achieve these things are often and most of the time hypocritical to the values one holds dear, thus we have the dilemma and the vicious circle. Accepting this fate is the closest to blissful ignorance one in this state may achieve. Those who do not take their angst out on others but rather steer through life with this fuck the world attitude are seen to have a problem, but is it truly their problem or is the weight of the world on their shoulders?

We are seen as maybe not having empathy yet it has been just the opposite which causes for those to perceive this condition in us, it is an empathy that so deep we could not persist unless we become numb. Same as how our physical nervous system works, when pain comes to be too great, it shuts down.

While many would like to parade about some sort of perfection there may be a bit of this in all of us yet often we choose to ignore it, to keep hope alive, or some sort of dream. We understand the human condition is animalistic in many ways and we put on our mask and push to some levels to not have to deal with this mess.

Equilibrium, Kurt Cobain, Fight Club, come to mind.

The opposite stance of a rosy outlook is a lie. Is middle ground the safe bet?

Is the curse the imagination of dreaming up something better even though it is unobtainable?

Does the righteous man hold dear this frame of reference?

If all the world united in this sentiment, would this sentiment still exist?

I would say yes, it is the insatiable human condition that is the cause.

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An insightful post, WWIII.

There is indeed a strange attitude that it is cool, Kurt Cobain and Fight Club being two examples you have given. I think ultimately it points to the uniqueness of being percieved in this way. The tortured soul, the one that nobody can really understand - there’s something powerful in it. However, what do you mean by drawing a line? Is there one to be drawn?

This is certainly a view I can empathise with, and something I constantly have on my mind (as would many others). A prime example of this is the individual who wakes up one day and realises they have experienced little in life that they would have liked to - they have just worked their entire life, for instance. The best means to battle this ‘self torture’ is to just go with it - provide a middle ground for yourself as you mentioned, still something I am learning to do.

What a question!

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Too bad eh.
I, on the other hand, am rich, I am full of the joys of life, I am liked by everyone because I like everyone, I get things done, I am blessed by priests and shamans alike, I have deep empathic and conceptual skills, sleep soundly, am fit, I am having a great time and lady luck is always on my side. Here is my advice: I am not good for me because there is only one of me, so you miscounted somewhere.

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WW,

Are you familiar with Freud’s ‘death-drive’? Thanatos? I see it so clearly in the behaviour of everyone around me, and myself.

…I suppose it’s just a vauge name to unite and allow us to talk about all the self-destructive tendencies that people exhibit—such as laziness, smoking, procrastination, bad diet, etc.

There are obviously ways to right the course when you’d rather the ship sailed in a different direction. But probably, since your nature also includes the ‘life drive’ or ‘power drive’ or Eros—whatever you want to call it—merely having names to shine light on these phenomena andtalk about them, your nature will start to steer in the direction of whatever course it prefers, on its own. (Light is good for direction). Becoming yourself. Balancing internal inconsistencies. Balance is key. I think one thing that gets under-emphasized when you think of these internal struggles as between two opposing forces, is the extent to which your nature is a social one.

JJ,

My friend, I’m very glad for you. But leave it to a true friend to point out your flaws—that’s what a true friend does…

Your thinking is often incoherent, or else trivially simple. Your replies to criticism are often obfuscating, or else dogmatically redundant. You write without context. You half define half your terms, and none the rest. You’re arrogant without cause, such as in this thread. And winning is more important to you than clarifying. But these are all minor fixes, and especially to someone with the rest of your good fortunes.

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I am perfectly rounded as a person and am changing the face of mankind for the better, difficult though that is. All my friends think so too. Me and all my friends think that I am perfectly rounded as a person and am changing the face of mankind for the better, difficult though that is.

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How are you doing so?

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Hang on.
What’s that Tedda? Hmm.
Tedda says you are up to something.
Tedda knows everything.

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I’m up to something? Just inquiring into what good you are doing in the world.

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Thank you sir :slight_smile:

I should say, where does the self tortured soul draw the line, where does our admiration for the self tortured soul and their rebellious nature begin to become unacceptable? It was more of a rhetorical question, not important to the theme really.

I agree, balance is a great point you bring up, but for others they may not know what we’re referring to. It would be good to have a thread on this discussing aspects of it maybe, I’m not sure where to begin though.

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I know your kind actually too well, you only think you are liked by everyone. Your life vantage is very myopic with your small group of people you talk with. I’m sure you’re a very pleasant guy and probably come off as a reasonable person more times than not. Unfortunately your myopic and gullible social stratum cannot correct you because they are unwitting. Perhaps you are some what of a charmer, but likely not too much, or at least lets hope not. Charmers are the potential most dangerous to the world, providing deeply disturbed irrational reasoning in sheep skin clothing that makes people feel good. More likely though, you’re socially inept or somewhat of a loner and confined to your myopic stratum, but you wont’ admit things like this. You believe your own lies and your lies are what keep you going, pursuing some grandiose persona that you have described here, but have yet to acheive. You are not full of the joys of life, you are making believe you are. Most everyone gets things done. People who are liked by everyone don’t make a note of it to say they are liked by everyone. People who are rich, don’t make note of how rich they are. You may be having a great time, but so do the psychotic.

Your contrarian mind has probably done some great things for you in the past, but your black and white thinking have fueled this recipe beyond the brink of logic and rationality. This is your dilemma, with some sort of inferiority/superiority complex, you fill a void in your soul with providing what you likely think are genius contrarian musings. Your black and white thought processes will take years to recover from if ever, you are surely within a grave within your mind, where enlightenment is far far away. Unfortunately though is your potential is squandered for now, because your cognitive bias will take years to recover from, again if ever. You are a brazen fool, ignorant through your own self deception. “The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.” You are not full of doubt.

Your immature mind has probably not fully developed, but it is hideous to say in the least at its core. Though to yourself your are a god, you are full of awe of yourself, for reasons that have deep pscyhological problems that you are ignorant of. Fortunately you will likely fail at life as to not become some idol people will worship to follow your nonsensical paths and disinformation, and diseducation. Because people will follow, they are sheep. This you take advantage of, because of the nature of people.

Yes, you are a bad, bad person.

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Anyone who thinks he is changing “mankind” for the better has already failed before he got started. It’s humankind, not “mankind.” Work on your sexism and adultism, and then I might believe that you really want to change things for the better.

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Maybe he only means mankind. Maybe he thinks women are already perfect and don’t need any changing. :slight_smile:

Slightly more seriously, “humanity” strikes me as less awkward than “humankind”.

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Where you pretending to talk to a teddy bear?

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If you want anything even slightly to be different than it already is, you will make yourself suffer.
Everyone makes themselves suffer to some degree. Nature has a constantly imperfect method but it
makes us live and thus we use suffering and pleasure in order to motivate ourselves.

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I’ve been wondering the same for quite some time… why is there the appeal of darkness and destruction, especially self-destruction?

“Remember it is a natural tendency to be dark and self-destructive. The trick is to do it well - very well.” C.S. Hyatt

It seems to be a fascination and maybe fear of the unknown. A catharsis for our own desires we dare not admit to. I’d agree that many people are not balanced and therefore are probably more attracted to the shadow than others. Or maybe the opposite is true.

It is an intriguing question.

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That is a good point, thank you.

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I’m handsome too. I’m better looking than all my friends, and they agree. I lighten their lives when I move among them.

I told you I had lots of money, which I hang on to by the way. This encourages free enterprise and the losers bite the dust. I hear that’s the American way. But I am more handsome than an American, and I haven’t had surgery for bullet wounds.

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.

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Oh you clearly have the moral compass of a God then.

Too bad about your philosophical enquiry, ay?

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This thread and especially this bit are very reminiscent of my situation. I do feel like I am caught between normalcy/productivity and my values. At the heart of it, I think, is fear. I’m afraid to be myself and I can’t bear to be anything else. I believe I am strong enough to overcome this, and I think one day I will be able to act authentically and be to the fullest extent who I am, without sacrificing anything. AND whether I achieve normalcy or not I will be successful in functioning/being-with other people. I don’t think this self-destructive thing is cool, but I think perhaps it was necessary for me and that it has value.