The Shame To Die

What is the shame to die? Is it shameful to die?

To die is a fundamental human right, why is it so mucked about by other people whose experiences are different?

Religious views are unwelcome, all right Chan man?

I am interested, what do you mean exactly…what is ‘‘shame’’ to die? Whoever said that it was shameful to die?


You know, shit like that…

Lets assume somebody chooses to die because he is lonely/depressed. That to some may seem irresponsible, and they may say it’s an act of coward’ness, but what does it matter? ‘‘You’’ are the most import thing in this world. The person you are is the thing that matters most to you, you would do whatever it takes to survive, or whatever it takes to end it all. How others react to it is irrelevant.

i don’y like the way your anwser’s pointing…

but i like the content of your anwser.

please specify what you mean.

mostly, i mean i share a common view with you abou this.

i also mean that you were actually kind of encouraging suicide, think about what would happen if i was a real downed guy… :confused:

Yes, my apologies if it came across the way it was supposed to :stuck_out_tongue:. You say, what if you were down, my post would encourage one to commit suicide right? But i am not ‘‘for’’ suicide because it solves nothing, but rather just eliminates any problems that once were. So it a nutshell, the problems u once had, they no longer exist/and no longer did they ever even exist.

would you commit suicide, if you find your self in late aids? just asking.

I would not commit suicide because the ‘‘choice’’ i make would be pointless, i ‘‘choose’’ to die because i have aids. Why you chose to die would be irellevant. It makes no difference if you die for ‘‘love’’ or if you choose to die because of ‘‘pain’’.

thinking about why sometimes gives us headache right…

let’s think about whynot in this context. why bare the shame? why bare the pain? why bare the cost of hospitalisation exerted on others?

My own feeling is that suicide is the choice one makes when one wishes:

a. not to deal with problems, not to suffer, not to have to put up with existence and all of its nastiness;

b. to be remembered in a certain way, either as one who gives one’s life fighting against a horrible enemy, or as a living, walking, lively, intelligent person (as opposed to a vegetable or a babbling coot).

Thus, my particular wishes are not to commit suicide as long as I have a healthy body and mind (I hope I never change my mind on that :slight_smile: ), and to be euthanized if ever I fall in an intractable coma or suffer severe Alzheimer’s disease.

In a nutshell, I consider b. as ample justification for ending one’s life, and a. as an act of mental illness or, in some cases, irresponsible cowardice.

Does anyone have a third category? I feel like this list cannot possibly be complete, though I can think of no other broad categories.

3rd cat.:

just curios about what would happen afterwards.

Thank you kindly. Do you think we can lump that in with Jim Jones/Heaven’s Gate style religious mass suicides, or are there too many people who ended their lives for no other reason than that they were intellectually curious what would happen?

that’s pretty much what i meant.

i can’t blame people who choose to die in religious seremonies, because that’s what they believe.

i don’t blame people who choose to die bcause of their curiosity of the afterlife.

but when people choose to die, one thing the SHOULd consider is the loved ones. other factors, whatever might they be, are insignificant.

that’s all.

you have just defended the jihadists and suicide bombers…


Makes sense to me. I want to articulate a position whereby a household breadwinner who offs herself when not actually suffering from clinical depression has abandoned some kind of duty to those depending on her (not that this happens much, but at least it is a clear-cut case), while the governor of Florida is not allowed to intervene to keep a poor woman on life support who has basically no chance of ever again waking up and interacting with anyone. And whereby I can legally leave instructions for someone to pull the plug on me when I start confusing my grandkid for my first girlfriend, without getting them at all penalized.

Hmm. Seems to me the original question has been confused. Not suicide, but death was the original question. However, these relate. Nietzsche wrote of the need for one to pick the proper time to die - one may liken this to a pop star hanging on long after he has used up his talent, to the point where he undoes the worth of what he did when young (you know those Starbuck’s commercials where the 80’s dudes sing a horribly modified “Eye of the Tiger”??? Scary and yet hilarious also). This is partly what I’m getting at with my particular opinion on suicide. Dunno how to separate the two as yet.

I have done no such thing. Argument in two parts:

Do we consider the Kamikaze pilots so terrible? Remember the end of “Aliens,” when Vasquez is wounded in the air shaft and cannot propel herself anymore, and so uncaps a grenade and takes some creatures with her instead of dying to even less purpose. In “Return of the Jedi”, a fighter pilot, burning and dying, crashes his ship into the bridge of the Imperial command ship, thus giving that much more chance for ultimate victory. In the Greek-Persian War, 400 Spartans held Thermopylae against thousands upon thousands of Persians for long enough that the rest of the allied Greek armies could advance to defensive positions and thus defeat the Persian army, though they themselves were eventually overrun. Suicide against an actual, armed enemy has never been considered wrong, and I do not consider it wrong. Do you honestly do so?

When you assert that I am defending suicide bombers, it is incumbent upon you to point out where I said it’s okay to commit suicide if you do it in a pizza parlor and take little kids out with you, committing murder and causing retribution against your own people. Since I said no such thing, at any point, you have violently misread what i actually wrote. In the future please read more carefully; it will help you avoid irritation and the malice of other people.

you said "b. to be remembered in a certain way, either as one who gives one’s life fighting against a horrible enemy, "

that is exactly why the jihadists and suicide bombers do what they do… they are giving their lives fighting what they percieve as a horrible enemy…

you said “In a nutshell, I consider b. as ample justification for ending one’s life”

no misreading there.

you defend suicide bombers in the name of allah fighting their horrible enemy…


I said “enemy”, not “enemy’s children, loved ones, and bystanders.”