Hmm I’ve been trying to follow my truth which is selflessness and let it control all my doings and sayings. But I’m finding this difficult. Is this because I don’t understand how to master myself enough? What can I do to help master myself? It’s so hard not to do things that are not an expression of my truth. At the same time it doesn’t seem to be doing anything even though I’ve increased the degree of control my truth has over my actions by making things chaotic for me. By making as many people think I’m not following my truth but inherently knowing I am. Chaos the state where there is contradicting opinions on what value you’re following is supposed to aid you in increasing the degree of control that your truth has on you? It makes you think when you think you’re not following your truth you are and makes you feel you’re less likely to abandon it. The abyss is also makes you feel your less likely to abandon your truth as the consequences of not lead to inescapable worthlessness. As Nietzsche said man is the bridge between animal and the superman a rope over the abyss. So what do you think why am I not getting anything. What is the ingredient I’m missing?
If I may, I think that what you’re missing is that your “my truth” is not, or at least should not be, selflessness. The only thing that leads to is guilt. We aren’t wired that way and it’s for the best. If anyone were truly selfless, they’d dry up and blow away.
Rather, what we should seek is enlightened self-interest, where you acknowledge that your are first in your own mind (which is unavoidable anyway), while at the same time being a moral example where you honor the equal rights of all to their life, liberty and property. Add to that you own personal virtues such as character, integrity, honesty or courage etc., and you have a life of which you can be (selfishly) proud, and a force worthy of the imitation of others. Embrace yourself. You can’t love anyone if you don’t love yourself first.
BTW, this doesn’t mean that you don’t make sacrifices on occasion for a good cause, but you’d be surprised how seldom that need truly arises. Helping others in genuine need is often a win-win–another example of enlightened self-interest. You have the right to expect hard evidence to justify your sacrifices, as well as gratitude. Exercise #1: Next time an able-bodied bum in the street hits you up for money, just say no; or better yet, ask him for some.
Well anyway TPT I don’t greatly see how I can’t makes selflessness my truth. I guess that’s not what your saying am I right. I’m not sure if you believe anyway if people are inherently selfish. From what you say it makes the sound of it. But I can see that your saying I “shouldn’t” be selfless anyway. Selflessness can lead to suffering such as hollowness, coldness, and emptiness but these things can be knocked out if you find the way to deal with them. Of course there is most certainly suffering that can’t be done away with that selflessness causes. But when you pick to be selfless anyhow you take on that certain happening.
I picked to be selfless ultimately as to me anyway it’s what came as more logical. I thinks the masses come first and don’t take this in anyway badly, that’s not my intention one bit but I feel if you believe you as a conscious entity have value how can the masses not have more value. That’s how I feel anyway. Of course as I said being selfless is very hard. We are made with limitations for selflessness or selfishness. It would take more then a century I feel for an individual to become completely selfless or selfish in all situations
I think we are all the value of one, and all the ones added up equals one–even if I’m included or not.
I think what you’re calling selflessness is similar to what I call sacrifice. The difference (correct me if I’m wrong, in you use it anyway) is that selflessness is a continuous state, a commitment submission of your self to the greater good of another or others. Sacrifice is the risk of loss for the benefit of another, or others, taken on a case by case basis. Let me illustrate with another example of enlightened self-interest. If, say, I see a group of men preparing to rape a woman and I decide that there’s a reasonable chance of my making a successful intervention, I would take the risk. Whether I’m successful or not, it would work against similar acts of such behavior, for more interventionism by others in the future, and also reinforce the fact that rape is not acceptable behavior in our society and culture. It wouldn’t matter is there is just one victim or ten, the value of my intervention, example and possible sacrifice is the same.
[quote="The Paineful Truth
I think we are all the value of one, and all the ones added up equals one–even if I’m included or not.
I think what you’re calling selflessness is similar to what I call sacrifice. The difference (correct me if I’m wrong, in you use it anyway) is that selflessness is a continuous state, a commitment submission of your self to the greater good of another or others. Sacrifice is the risk of loss for the benefit of another, or others, taken on a case by case basis. Let me illustrate with another example of enlightened self-interest. If, say, I see a group of men preparing to rape a woman and I decide that there’s a reasonable chance of my making a successful intervention, I would take the risk. Whether I’m successful or not, it would work against similar acts of such behavior, for more interventionism by others in the future, and also reinforce the fact that rape is not acceptable behavior in our society and culture. It wouldn’t matter is there is just one victim or ten, the value of my intervention, example and possible sacrifice is the same.[/quote]
I’d say you do have my idea of selflessness close to it all anyhow. But I don’t believe selflessness is always putting others before yourself. Sometimes putting yourself first in “that” case anyway is selfless to me. So say if I was very sick and someone else wasn’t. If I had a choice who would get a lift in the car or who would walk the length of the journey if it’s a choice between me and the other I would say me. I say this because I have the view I am just as much an individual in the masses as anyone else. I have just as much value as anyone else.
When you say that the value of your sacrifice is the same whether it’s just one victim or ten I agree that all sacrifice is f equal value. If we didn’t think this it would be hard to make any sacrifice. However if I had a choice between saving ten or one I’d save the ten. But then when you have to make choices like these you have to acknowledge one choice and action taken has greater value as sacrifice then the other as then how else could you choose.
Well, good. And nice talkin’ to you, which I just noticed you don’t do much. Been a member since 2006 and only 41 posts. When it comes to sharing my hot air around, I am very selfless indeed. 
Yourself.
Cease the computation and recipe.
Feel for your senses and allow your senses to give you the intuitive information about others and about how you feel about yourself and how you feel about others.
Bring that to people and let the actions follow as they occur.
Your nature is not selfless.
Selfless is offering.
Offering is the nature of the humiliated for redemption or the submitting to for unique emotional gain.
If you find conflict with selflessness when pushed out so exclusively, then your nature is not humiliating itself for redemption, or submitting for unique emotional gain.
Instead, it means your nature is something else than selfless right now, and you just need to look at your senses for the direction to get to it.
Water is many things; it isn’t always life giving and selfless.
It’s nature has an ebb and flow in many dynamic directions.
So do humans’ natures.
Move with your nature and if you value the merit of selflessness, appreciate and honor the times reverently that life gives you when your nature is selfless and respect yourself when your nature is not; knowing there is a time to appreciate yourself within what you honor, and a time to appreciate all of what you are elsewise, as it is all of your natures which constantly shift that allows for the experience of the selflessness to be so reverential.
Further along, perhaps you’ll find other natures that you decide are reverential as equally or more greatly than selflessness; perhaps not.
What I understand of you is this anyhow TheStumps. Calculation is counterproductive to selflessness as it’s sees things in parts, not as a whole. When we see things in parts we are comparing. And when we compare we assume were doing so to see which has more benefit. Rather you should use your senses which see things as a “whole”. The senses don’t try so even when you sense different wholes you are not trying too therefore you are not comparing.
When you say respect the times when your nature is not I assume your saying don’t call it worthless. If we call it worthless we feel we don’t always have to be selfless. As if were not we can just call it worthless and since we’ve got what we wanted we didn’t’ need to be selfless. Also if you call it worthless it calls you worthless and we take revenge by saying for this we don’t have to follow being selfless in these conditions. Thanks for the help Thestumps but if I didn’t get anything right tell me.
If you take that second part as what you have and it helps, then go with that.
It is not what I meant, but if that is helpful toward accepting your non-selfless nature currently; then the same end is met.