the ultimate perfection

the ultimate perfection

going back to plato’s notion of forms [as perhaps metaphoric] i would like to hopefully add a new twist or a fresh perspective so we can we find perfection amongst things and then an ultimate perfection…

we live in a world that is constantly changing in a way that seams fluid, yet within this change can we say that perfection is arrived at ~ indeed is it what existence strives for, the reason for all things! if we break don this flux of change there are certain ideas to be noted…

‘truths of the transformative are no truer than that of the complete or formed’ by this i mean that any set of values, principles or laws that we attribute to the transforming nature of existence, are no truer than what we consider for the completed form or end of task entity. if we look at a cup, it is referred to as a holistic object, we would say that there is no such thing as ‘cup’ only that there is a flux which at some point in the transformative process appears to be what we call a ‘cup’. what though if we say that a cup is a thing in and of itself, is this any less true than the vague reference to it as part of a changing process?

we could instead site e.g. an atom as a perfect object, indeed any combination in the periodic table can be so. perhaps unstable compounds are not so perfect though, nevertheless an atom is little different to a cup as it can be changed to yet is its own entity.

there is another side to this in philosophy, where it is asked; if we build a ship then continually replace its parts until all the new parts have been replaced, it is still the same ship? it would look the same and be the same to all intense purposes, yet every part of it would have changed. we may see ourselves much in the same light, every cell in our bodies change over time, do we remain the same person?

answer; when we build the ship it is to a blueprint a desired outcome is achieved in the building of it. once it is the ship as desired, it makes no difference if all the parts are changed as we still have the same entity!

let us look at this problem on another level i.e. in terms of truths. we will begin to explore the idea of an ultimate perfection as the blueprint and desire of existence…
as an anarchist i like this one so i’ll restate it…

if we say; ‘genius is the result of the entire product of man’.

then can we take this to a more universal level and say; ‘perfection is the result of a collection of imperfections’ & ‘a series of random imperfections will always give rise to a state of perfection’.

thence; ‘eternity is the result of all perfections’.

so is ‘god’ all perfection? no, we can have all examples of perfection, but they cannot be attributed to a single definitive entity e.g. you cannot have a perfect circle and a perfect square as part of the same perfection, they must be their own distinct forms of perfection. we may only have a place where they all reside at least in idea. the problem then arises that there can be no change as all things must remain as they are. however we may have perfection interacting with perfection without changing it. in fact back down here on earth we only have occasional imperfection in comparison to perfections made.

how can we call a thing perfect.

even if we conclude that the blue print for the ship is itself an imperfect thing, the execution of the construction [even if that process itself is imperfect] results in the perfect example of what is desired in the blueprint.

universal evolution is then a process of finding perfections, the blueprint is in the potentiality for a given entity.

so what can be the result of all perfections ~ what is ultimately achieved?

here we enter the idea that there are different levels of perfection. we can say that all through evolution we arrive at different examples like a mouse is a perfect mouse, a human is a perfect human. is an ape though an imperfect human? yes and no, it is a perfection but it is not as perfect as the next generation of forms along its evolutionary line.

in human terms we may not yet have reached ‘the perfect version’ of human, it may or may not be so that we could for example, make perfect inventions, perfect philosophies and have a complete and perfect scientific grande theory of everything, indeed we may stop growing beards ~ so was plato imperfect lols.

if we now take the collected works of the universe, then multiply that by infinity ~ so that somewhere along the line we have to concede that eventually the all-perfect thing is reached, what could that all-perfect entity be?

note the answer may be exactly the same as if we ask ‘must all things come to an end’, what would that state be? so we have the positive and negative example, both of which amounts to the same thing?

so what then is the ultimate perfection, as a concept or perhaps a reality.

my own conclusion; the ultimate perfection is ‘absolute simplicity’.

Aww, and I thought this thread was going to be about chocolate. :cry:

No.

No.

But we don’t have the same entity out there (only in our minds). It only looks the same to us, so to call it “the same” ship would be erroneous.

We cannot conceive of perfection because we ourselves are imperfect. Imperfect cannot conceive of (objectively) perfect because it will project its own imperfections on it and find it imperfect. This is not on the account of “perfect” entity but of imperfect one. This is like asking what would happen if you came face to face with an all perfect God? If a human (imperfect) saw all perfect God, he would see him as imperfect (he couldn’t help himself but to do so).
A completed ship is considered perfect only because we put our own limit to it’s becoming beyond which it will lose its “ship” mind-label. The same with perfect circle and perfect square. Why is a perfect circle perfect? Because beyond this, it will stop looking like a circle (and be more of an oval, for example). We gave it a “circle” label, beyond which it will stop being “circle”/“perfect”. We can call things perfect only because we can define what “perfect” is (it looks like thus and thus). But we, ourselves are imperfect, so our perfections and labels are worth diddly-shit by extension.

No, it’s chocolate. =P~

pandora hi

you said ‘no’ that we don’t remain the same person nor does the ship remain the same ship. so at what point on the journey of transformation does it stop being what it is? if you had a leg replaced are you no longer you? you see where i am going with this, that when viewed in the greater vision the old and new can seam like two different entities, yet in smaller increments it is hard to see how the changes make any difference.

incorrect. you are perfectly you, we are perfectly human. perfection is comparative though, we are more perfect than a mouse [even if it is better at being a mouse]. as far as biological beings go we may be the end of the line ~ the human brain cannot get better, if you make it bigger you make it less efficient, it is like with computers, the distance between information addresses is critical.

but i agree that ultimately it is chocolate, but belgian or swiss hmm. :smiley: