On the other hand, perhaps I am the one in need of corrections. It’s just that I’m running out of time. [-o<
K: I hear you there… I often write in terms of my age…I feel mortality breathing down
my neck and I must get my thoughts out while I can…
death frightens me far less then something like dementia or Alzheimer’s… I admit,
I live in fear of that…and I have heard of people getting dementia at my age…61…
and so I race against time…but family history gives me hope… my mom is
85 and sharp as a tack… although, I must admit living that long doesn’t really
appeal to me…so, I am driven by fear of dementia and death… and so I write…
Kropotkin
Note: I already wrote this post on the night of October 26th, and I’m only posting half of it now.
I want it to be known that I, who’ve hardly participated here for years now, am one of the two(!) people who answered “no” to this thread’s poll question. That is, I want it to be precisely known what a cesspool ILP really is right now. Then again, my neighbours recently accused me, completely out of the blue, of being in a cult of Satanic ritual abuse, including sexual abuse, including that of children… (I’m not sure they subscribe to the QAnonsense, though; they’re Evangelicals, i.e., Christian Fundamentalists, so they may just be throwbacks to the Satanic Panic of the eighties and early nineties.) The lady of the house is a psychologist, but a Christian psychologist is extremely suspect, of course. In fact, I suspect the real reason for her accusations is that I, a Nietzschean Dionysus, have been visibly working out every day, usually bare-chested, and she has a teenage daughter… Since then I’ve only done so in better light, with more audible music, and I’ve even given the world its first glimpses of my “Shiva-dancing”! I’ve also become a Crowleyan Magus thanks to all this, or rather the equivalent of the Magus Nietzsche (see Crowley’s “One Star in Sight”): I now see how right Nietzsche was in focusing on Christianity at the end (the Antichrist is indeed the Revaluation of All Values, the whole of it) and in defining himself simply as the teacher of the eternal recurrence… Note though that we’re both coming from the most extreme skepticism (nihilism). I’m a bodhisattva, or rather an avatar of Krishna, and my sacred mission is to purify the world of Christianity. 
I agree that ILP has become a cesspool but not because more people voted yes to the poll’s question, as if more people thinking the world is controlled by pedophiles is indicative of how far ILP has fallen… If that’s what you are saying…
I didn’t vote as I don’t think the question can be accurately answered. But it seems unlikely that the people that control world would be either A) pedophiles or B) “Satanists” of some sort… As I imagine cleanliness would be a priority if you want to maintain high levels of control over the world… But then again, maybe the world has become such a cesspool that such cleanliness isn’t even required to rule at the top. N says that “Thoughts that come with doves’ footsteps guide the world” and to even hear such words you must have achieved a certain level of lightness… Of course, he says “guide” not control or rule.
The mother might just be jealous of her daughter and the only way for her to deal with it is to attack you. That’s a pretty serious accusation though. And if they go around spreading that rumor it’s slander, which I imagine must be a crime in Amsterdam.
Also: “what could be less evangelical than “recompense,” “punishment,” and “sitting in judgment”!” -N …So really, those “evangelicals” weren’t acting very Christ-like.
Having said that, I don’t think the idea that the world is ruled by pedophiles can automatically be dismissed as paranoia or conspiracy theory. The fact that such a large and significantly powerful organization like the Catholic Church has systemically covered up child abuse on a global scale is enough to make you wonder… not that the Catholic Church rules the world…
Is someone who abuses children even capable of having a vision like this (poetryfoundation.org/poems/ … rning-babe)? Or do the more “sophisticated” abusers in the the clergy just use the Church as a cover to get to children?
I didn’t say it happened suddenly, but I do think the poll is indicative of it, yes. And I didn’t necessarily mean to exclude you from that judgment.
To even consider it this seriously is already kind of crazy.
The mother might just be jealous of her daughter and the only way for her to deal with it is to attack you. That’s a pretty serious accusation though. And if they go around spreading that rumor it’s slander, which I imagine must be a crime in Amsterdam.
Also: “what could be less evangelical than “recompense,” “punishment,” and “sitting in judgment”!” -N …So really, those “evangelicals” weren’t acting very Christ-like.
[/quote]
Right, thanks.
Very different circumstances:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Critique
Is this again about that thing I said years ago, that if a genuine philosopher happened to be a pedophile I would still rank him—or her, etc.—above all non-philosophers? If so: I never said there had ever been such a philosopher; but why would that be theoretically impossible?
I didn’t say it happened suddenly, but I do think the poll is indicative of it, yes. And I didn’t necessarily mean to exclude you from that judgment.
To even consider it this seriously is already kind of crazy.
Right, thanks.
Very different circumstances:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Critique
Is this again about that thing I said years ago, that if a genuine philosopher happened to be a pedophile I would still rank him—or her, etc.—above all non-philosophers? If so: I never said there had ever been such a philosopher; but why would that be theoretically impossible?
Well any pedophile I know better be a damn good philosopher cuz he’s gonna have to do some fancy talkin’, mister.
Ouch…
To even consider it this seriously is already kind of crazy.
[/quote]
How is considering it already kind of crazy given the state of the world? What type of people do you think currently control the world?
What am I supposed to infer from that? How are the circumstances different?
As an aside, this only proves the Church values secrecy over cleanliness, and that as an organization they are incapable of “cleaning house”…And I’m not talking about going to the police…
Is this again about that thing I said years ago, that if a genuine philosopher happened to be a pedophile I would still rank him—or her, etc.—above all non-philosophers? If so: I never said there had ever been such a philosopher; but why would that be theoretically impossible?
[/quote]
I would say it would be theoretically impossible because of the need for cleanliness and the fact that a philosopher is going to have an extremely heightened sense of honor (Pedophilia being an extreme violation of boundaries)… Shakespeare said in one of his sonnets that he had the best and worst in him, but this points more to a person who is extremely empathetic or able to experience the emotional state of another without actually engaging in the same activities of that person.
Well, I don’t consider you someone who actively makes ILP a cesspool, don’t worry. It’s just that you have a certain neutrality that makes you passively complicit in it.
Certainly not a secret cabal or other organised network. Did you know, by the way, that “cabal” is cognate with "Kabbalah? Compare:
“The idea of a secret, all-powerful ‘cabal’ of sadistic Satanists preying on children is not a new one. In that part of its lore, the QAnon conspiracy theory borrows heavily from the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, a strange phenomenon in which hundreds of thousands of otherwise reasonable Americans became convinced that secret cadres of Satanists were operating out of daycare centers, torturing and molesting children for rituals. Meanwhile, the QAnon assertion that Satanist Democrats are farming children underground in order to harvest and drink their blood harkens back to an even older conspiracy theory, the antisemitic blood libel, a medieval fiction that posited that Jewish people stole and murdered Christian children in order to use their blood to make matzah.”
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/20/qanon-conspiracy-child-abuse-truth-trump
Well, for example, Hollywood and the Democrats are not celibate… But I’m not interested in providing a list only to have each item “refuted”. As Nietzsche says, against the priest one doesn’t have arguments, one has the house of correction. Not necessarily talking about you here, by the way.
So what are you talking about? Excommunicating them, or taking the law in their own hands?
I agree though that such “attorney-client privilege”, or “doctor-patient confidentiality”, goes too far.
Pedophilia’s just the sexual orientation, not the practice thereof. And what do you mean here by “cleanliness”? As a heterophile, I feel homosexuality to be uncleanly—is that what you mean?
Interesting! Does this mean Shakespeare may have been a pedophile in my sense?..
Since you and I had that argument about Nietzsche’s “e.g., in Shakespeare” parenthesis, by the way, I have come to regard the latter, too, as a genuine philosopher in the former’s sense:
Taking the law into their own hands, “cleaning house”… I actually rather like that they don’t go to the police, that they can keep secrets… I understand why they don’t take the law in their own hands… the whole “thou shall not kill”… And every person should be afforded the opportunity to repent because god’s mercy is infinite etc etc…And, of course, no one would actually go to confession if they knew there would be consequences, so it would defeat the purpose…So i guess they would have to
“clean house” in a very stealthy manner… But the priests would surely catch on…Hell, the Church has NEVER been clean, so what am I even talking about lol.
"
The sexual act yes, but more than that… the desire itself even if never acted on, would seem to me a “contamination” of the “bright, gleaming, profound, fine” (BGE 271) just as “pity” is a contamination.
I consider the fat baby cupid or the fat child Ganymede getting kidnapped by Zeus to be de-evolutions of the myths. They’re both at their most ideal as young, athletic men.
I don’t think so for the reason above (you could make the case that he might of been bi-sexual… or is bi-sensual a thing?)
“No, let me be obsequious in thy heart, And take thou my oblation, poor but free, Which is not mixed with seconds, knows no art, But mutual render, only me for thee.” -man addressing man in The Sonnets.
“Nature hath charged me that I hoard them not,
But yield them up where I myself must render,
That is, to you, my origin and ender;” -man addressing woman in A Lover’s Complaint
Excommunication would actually be worse for a true believer than being disappeared… Just saying, of course.
Yes, certainly. But on the other hand, can one’s soul be really bright etc. without taking delight, not just intellectual but also emotional and even sensual delight, in children? Quite dangerous though, it’s a fine line and all. By the way, on the night of October 10th I wrote, still in a somewhat emotional state:
‘I now think my place may be the 9th sephira, Yesod. After all, my own songs are tonal songs. Now may be the time to sing them again in public—for the children who play in front of my apartment every day, and against the people who live straight across from me and accused me of being in a Satanic sexual children abuse ring this week.’
https://soundcloud.com/user-565243348/the-sound-inside (September 1997)
https://soundcloud.com/user-565243348/natural-high (April 1999)
‘But I suppose it’s really about gathering all these things together, so maybe my place is still in Tiphareth[.]’ (ibid.)
And on the night of October 31st, I wrote:
‘I still think my place is in Tiphareth. It just means I may make forays into the lower sephiroth—and thereby even into tonal music.’
Right. I was first reminded of the difference between the child Krishna and the youth Krishna, but now I think Krishna rather corresponds to Zeus (compare Nietzsche’s description of Heraclitus’ “great world-child Zeus” in PTA 8), whereas Ganymede then corresponds to Radha:
“The awakening of love, or the mood of first love (pūrva-rāga), is pervaded by an amusing theme in which Rādhā shows a curious mixture of the girl and the woman, of curiosity and shyness. She is not yet a woman and no longer a girl. She is a flutter of girlish giggles at one moment and pensive the next. Her naïveté, girlish boldness, and womanly modesty combine to create an irresistible charm that is at once endearing and amusing. She is a favorite subject of Vaiṣṇava poets.” (David R. Kinsley, The Sword and the Flute, page 42.)
I suppose I should explain what I mean by ‘taking sensual delight in children’. In their current order:
- Liking or at least not minding hearing their voices. (I do mind adults’ voices coming into my apartment, unless they sound like they belong to hot chicks, of course.)
- Liking the sight of them (e.g., how nimble they are).
- Carrying them, lifting them in the air etc. (I only ever do this with my niece and nephews, and used to with my youngest brother way back when (I’m the eldest of four).)
- Liking the smell of them, e.g. their hair (only did this with my youngest brother, way back when).
I don’t think the fifth sense ever comes into play…
The Boy Scouts of America now have almost 8 times as many claimants as the Catholic Church has had worldwide:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/16/us/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-deadline-bankruptcy/index.html
The US Boy Scouts probably had far less defense against the corruptors and propagandists.
Here’s one of two passages I especially liked. In fact, it had somewhat of an impact on me in the summer of last year. At one point I even snarled ‘homos!’ at two guys on bikes whose antisocial stupidity was hindering me, who was also on a bike. They were quite taken aback by my vehemence.
“The boatswain […] attempts to fend them off, once again, with what he assumes to be truth itself: if they do not submit to his ‘office’, they will lose what they most value—their lives. To the boatswain’s bafflement, Antonio refutes the boatswain’s argument by negating its premise. It is not life that Antonio holds dear, but life of a certain kind, namely the life of courage. […] The boatswain had assumed that his hierarchy in the order of goods, (1st—self-preservation; 2nd—rule) would command universal assent, but not all men observe the same hierarchy, so the tactic the boatswain employs of using the fear of death to obtain rule fails.”
