I have been thinking about this a bit recently. I always had reservations about agreeing with this unresevedly because previously I imagined what was meant was that one must ENJOY the lows as much as the highs. This, at least, is what I thought Nietzsche meant by his term amor fati. We should not only accept but revel in the lows and hardships of life just because we know they are making us stronger.
Well, recently Ive come to see more that accepting the lows is ‘acceptable’ yet I am still not ready to welcome them as readily as the highs. I think being able to accept lows ‘in the grand scheme of things’ is a good mindset to have and promotes the ‘tragic sense of life’ such that the highs can be appreciated all the more in contrast to the lows. I am still not ready to take the Zen route of saying that lows and highs are exactly the same, I think that is just nihilistic and overboard. I cannot begin to imagine what mental fortitude it would take for someone of this mindset to ‘welcome’ having razor blades slowly carved across their balls or screws slowly twisted into their eyes. It just seems silly to welcome EVERYTHING as it is in denial of one’s humanity. I know that some of the high up yogi’s are quite indifferent to stuff like the above, after hearing stories of them deliberately being buried alive and one accidentally (though maybe he liked it as a ‘bonus’ to his faithful cause) having his arm eaten by ants.
Recently all my main friends I go out with went home for the summer and others left unexpectedly. Others still just refuse to go out. This left me in the lurch and with noone to hang with. I first I was annoyed and enbittered by this poor turn of events. Regardless I decided to start going out on my own again (something Ive done for years on and off anyway as Im used to not being able to rely on people). At first I hated it and resisted it, but in the past week Ive come to accept my lot and realise that Im becoming much stornger because of it. I am less worried of what people think and more comfortable in my own skin. Now, I am still thinking it is going to be nice to have other people to hang around with but I am also seeing that the benefits in mental foritude I will have gained from going solo would not have been acquired if this turn of events had not befallen me. Thus I am able to accept and even appreciate the lows for the positive benefits I am seeing from them. I think that I was able to begin appreciating this ‘low’, and others, only when I began to see things which could be seen as benefits which I acquired from these circumstances happening to me. This begins a chain of positive feedback which counters my initial resistance to the events. I could even see myself enjoying myself once I gain enough momentum from doing the solo thing. Ive done it before. In the past I have gotten to a point where I enjoy the benefits of not being tied down to anyone and freedom of being alone so liberating that I prefer it to going out with people. Thus in this case I can readily accept a ‘low’ with the knowledge that it will once day bloom into a beautiful flower even brighter than any of the normal current crop. So yes, in this sense I could welcome both good and bad events as equally as one another. I guess what you do with a low, and whether it becomes a positive for you, comes down to the strength of your will plus the amount of creativity you possess; or just how determined you are to make good of something (which is also strength of will again).
Id like to hear other’s thoughts and experience of this in their own lives.
I was kicked out of high school in 1997. Since then I’ve been wrongfully accused of crimes by the police 4 times, 3 times I’ve seen justice so far, and I’ve got one pending. Lots and lots of people close to me have died in the past two years and I’ve had two surgeries, one for a broken hand and once I had a chunk of my sinuses removed. I had a vehicle stolen and my house was burglarized in the last two years.
I also graduated from university, kept the same girlfriend, negotated a salary at a job where I can basically do nothing and make enought money to live reasonably well and developed a better relationship with the remaining members of my family.
There is not any standard every day thing that can fuck up my chi. I can be happy no matter what. I feel invincible. I don’t even think I have to try.
Too much isolation and you will start feeling extremely lonely, and possibly start going mad (that’s where creativity kicks in ). Too much contact with people and you will start loosing yourself, and also possibly become cynical. I’d give it 70/30 ratio, 70% isolation-30% socialization-you should be fine. You need socialization so you don’t lose touch with nuances required in social interactions (kind of like keeping in touch with the latest fashion trend, or latest progress in technology).
I also believe that pain (stimulation which challenges the organism to overcome it) is useful and it does make you stronger. I would be careful with it though since it is possible to become addicted to it and develop a tunnel vision. It also depends on the kind of pain: physical or mental. There are some people who cannot live without drama, so they sabotage all their relations with people (such as emotional masochists who like to make themselves victims). Physical pain (working out, for example) is okay with me, as long as it does not start compromising other important things (intellectual, artistic pursuits), or it the organism will become “lopsided” (create a physically-strong emotional retard).
Cutting oneself with razor blades and stuff, by the way, is addressing psychological/emotional issue, not physical, though the act itself is physical.
Here’s a thought. Most people I know who’ve been in a near death experience have come out of it really appreciating life and whatever it may bring, be it pain or pleasure. This is off course, a very Nietchean perspective on life, so I guess in this sense what doesn’t kill people does in most cases make them stronger–as in this near death experience makes their affirmation of life, their yea, even stronger.
I think that, bringing a Jungian twing into this (which I want to do since I recently read Nietzsche and Jung: Union of opposites which I highly recommend ) when we are confronted with these NDE’s or any other challenging situation it forces into consciousness lots of stuff which the ego blocks out through it repressing lots of stuff. This acts to bring up the shadow causing it to be reconciled into consciousness and thus forming a larger and more solid view of the world rather than the more myopic previous little -I- driven consciousness.
Pandora I know what your saying on both sides. I am more familiar with the isolation part, but I know and see people when Im out who are like shells who are lost behind the persona. Im not sure what this is like, I imagine its pretty empty as they looks just like robots in their communication. Im thinking specifically of people who get loads of attention all the time, attention they dont necessarily want. In particular Im thinking of hot girls. They develop this inauthentic ‘club persona’ as a way to deal with the barrage of guys always trying to hit on them (me included, to my chagrin) . When you approach someone like this with a thick persona its like you have to blast through it before you get any kind of authenticity from them. Alas, my tools often fail me before I hit the vein. There is a hard wall of emptiness, which has formed the shell so that they dont feel an emotional response to what you say. They have autopilot responses which I can tell are just being reeled off from the script. Also the fake smile of doom which stays plastered or is used as a friendly ‘go away’. I dunno what its like to be a hot girl, but they seem to enjoy the attention nonetheless. This is similar to how most people act towards begger when you are being approached by them at least 5 times a day. Soemone quoted that hot girls get approached about 20 times a day! Now I know I would have to deveop mechanisms against this barrage given my reaction to beggers. Certainly, the stakes are indeed higher with girls as the interlocuter not only wants money, but your very body!
I think I like Aristotle’s ratio of 50% action 50% contemplation.
I woud also agree that TOO much socialisation will also devour you, but I think too little and you are vicitim to people taking advantage of you, those who are more socially savvy etc. Also you cant be assertive and stuff. This certianly comes down to your life situation and just what you want out of society. If you are wanting to just chill and philosophise after your prime then obv. unless you love socialising then your gonna cut it donw as you have less need to do it. For me however, I want loads of hotties so I have to develop an even mightier persona, whilst also not losing myself in the maelstrom, to counter this fake persona that is put on by the females and others in the ‘ego game’. A Herculean task indeed! to remain authentic within a Leviathan of inauthenticity. This is where the 50% isolation comes in to remain grounded.
Kris, that goes without saying as another quote from Nietzsche states that it is at this point that “the common man perishes” (it’s form WTP I believe not sure of the exact place) so clearly his audience is only those/us ‘higher men’ who such a statement will resonate with.
Um, actually it is not the common man that perishes. It is the abberrent that perishes. It is not the higher males that it resonates with, it is those that see themselves as superior due only to ego. When a human has such a high opinion of themselves it is that weakness that will bring them down. Nietzche failed to observe that any human that views themselves as superior has a gaping flaw that will be their downfall. Humility does the same. The humble human suffers the same ego flaw as the one that is opposite humble. The strongest human is the average human. The average human is far more adaptable then either end of the spectrum. To be on either end is to make yourself vunerable and weak.
Kris my fellow, you have made a schoolboy error in your reading of Nietzsche. It is a very commonplace mistake among those who read Nietzsche all too hastily (something which he specifically warns against).
A superficial reading of Nietzsche will show him up to be an egoist, yet closer inspection shows that he also warns against this precise course of action when he writes ‘the most moderate shall be the most powerful’. This sees power being advocated in the spiritual sense and not, as most hasty commentators have misinterreted, mere brute force, which Nietzsche also quick to chides. His dichotomy of Apollo and Dionysus promotes both polarities equally which means that Dionysian (wild power etc.) is tamed by Apollonian form and moderation/structure.
It appears that in this state of affairs you are indeed the common man and have perished in your attempt to understand the finer points of Nietzschean philosophy!
I am just joking around I just enjoyed writing a nice rebuke is all .
Primary: chap: a boy or man; “that chap is your host”; “there’s a fellow at the door”; “he’s a likable cuss”; “he’s a good bloke”
Alternate: companion: a friend who is frequently in the company of another; “drinking companions”; “comrades in arms”
Ahh, Imp I could have had fun with him Psst, mention nothing about age please.
Agape, Any one that considers themselves superior is an egotist Any that considers themselves inferior also is an egotist or the humble is an egotist. To call your self the better or worse human is an ego trip. And shows weakness. The only superior human is the one that actually adapts and survives which will be the flexible average human. Nothing superior nothing humble nothing inferior just an ability to adapt as situations warrant. Nietzche commends only what he would create as a superior, the average human is not considered worthy. The average human only has one goal and that is to pass through life easily and as comfortably as possible. No other significant goal rattles around in their heads.
Oh and no you are not safe from Chauvinism, I have never not once been a schoolboy, schoolgirl yes. So your previous answer is proved to be chauvinistic by that one tiny little word… But that is alright. I know you meant well, Most on these forums are male.
This is quite profound and I would like to speak upon it briefly … so I will.
An attractive woman gets hit on about 20 times a day. I agree with that, and I’ve made a serious mistake in hitting on an attractive woman one time. It didn’t work out, lol, obviously. I learned my lesson. However, what strikes me as extremely odd is that an attractive woman puts out “vibes” when she is attracted to a male (subconsciously). Then, if a male reacts to this inappropriately (by “hitting” on her), then she will reject him. She then does not connect the dots between her apparent action (of sending out “signals”) and the reaction by males. She is left utterly … confused as to what happened, because almost all attractive women have the I.Q. of a brick.
Now, when she puts out these “vibes” to a male that she is attracted to and he does not respond to them, then she puts out more until he responds appropriately or inappropriately. An “appropriate” response is one that demonstrates trust, that she can and will be safe and taken care of by this male as a man takes care of a woman. Then, and only then, will a sex act result mutually. Otherwise, it is strictly a male-doing, which females secretly despise – they absolutely hate being dominated by men and will reciprocate to harm in kind – emotionally. This is how & why males get harmed and don’t understand “[b]why?[/b]” in return of females getting harmed and not understanding “why?”. The male domination is physical (sex). The female domination is emotional (mental). And both end up fucking each other over if the “game” isn’t played by the rules. Furthermore, if you don’t play the game, then you don’t get laid.
Yes…
…and what doesn’t “kill”, “destroy”, “maim”, or “devour” me makes me stronger – those friggin man-eaters out there…
First paragraph I agree with you, Im not sure I caught you on the second one though about domination this way and that way, I got lost.
I agree with you about the girl sends out the signals only to rebuke the guy for coming up even though she sent the signals. The important thing to remember, though, is she does still want a guy. I would say she wants a guy/s perhaps even more than the average girl as the hotty has so much of her personality wrapped in her sexuality that she consciously or subconsciously will want a ‘return’ on her efforts. I would even say that that is all her personality consists of, lol! hence your very apt brick analogy. So the apparent contradiction here is not so much a conatradiction when we look a little closer. The girls wants a guy, she just doesn’t want a beta male guy who is weak and a pansy. She, rather, wants an alpha male who is going to dominate her, fuck her and leave her for the next hotty. Lol!, now let me see if that wasnt chauvinistic.
My arguing buddy found this thread and put his time in…
The sexual vibes from females you all feel are most likely due to the fact your penis is filling with blood, becoming a bit hard and rubbing against your pants. That would be the vibes you feel. Then you blame it on the woman who innocently stands there not having a clue that you cannot control your body… Chauvanistic?? Nahhhh, egotistic.
). Too much contact with people and you will start loosing yourself, and also possibly become cynical. I’d give it 70/30 ratio, 70% isolation-30% socialization-you should be fine. You need socialization so you don’t lose touch with nuances required in social interactions (kind of like keeping in touch with the latest fashion trend, or latest progress in technology).
) when we are confronted with these NDE’s or any other challenging situation it forces into consciousness lots of stuff which the ego blocks out through it repressing lots of stuff. This acts to bring up the shadow causing it to be reconciled into consciousness and thus forming a larger and more solid view of the world rather than the more myopic previous little -I- driven consciousness.](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7c349bf1053f368a5729d053e1e91215f22ce66c.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
. When you approach someone like this with a thick persona its like you have to blast through it before you get any kind of authenticity from them. Alas, my tools often fail me before I hit the vein. There is a hard wall of emptiness, which has formed the shell so that they dont feel an emotional response to what you say. They have autopilot responses which I can tell are just being reeled off from the script. Also the fake smile of doom which stays plastered or is used as a friendly ‘go away’. I dunno what its like to be a hot girl, but they seem to enjoy the attention nonetheless. 
This is similar to how most people act towards begger when you are being approached by them at least 5 times a day. Soemone quoted that hot girls get approached about 20 times a day! Now I know I would have to deveop mechanisms against this barrage given my reaction to beggers. Certainly, the stakes are indeed higher with girls as the interlocuter not only wants money, but your very body!
.
Ahh, Imp I could have had fun with him 
Psst, mention nothing about age please.
Oh and no you are not safe from Chauvinism, I have never not once been a schoolboy, schoolgirl yes. So your previous answer is proved to be chauvinistic by that one tiny little word… But that is alright. I know you meant well, Most on these forums are male. 