the other night through rational thinking starting with myself and tracing back…i concluded that time is a loop. or some shape thats connected. future will eventually turn into past…before i explain my logic i would be intrested if anyone else has herd this theory (ive never hered someone elses version of this thory…but i seem to recall hearing the worsds “time loop theory” …before…any ways if anyone who has herd of it (and who is a genius) would be kind enough to explain some of it and state whether or not you believe it…have i already written this?
Nietzsche GS 341.
[Compare Nietzsche’s note: Fall 1881 11 [143]]
The greatest weight.— What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you in your loneliest loneliness and say to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence—even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again—and you with it, speck of dust!"— Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: “You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine!” If this thought gained possession of you, it would change you as you are or perhaps crush you; the question in each and every thing, “Do you desire this once more, and innumerable times more?” would lie upon your actions as the greatest weight! Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal? —
-Imp
i would be very interested to hear physical evidence of how this might make sense. i remember reading about a theory that said this is how the universe looked when it started, but the only ‘reason’ he gave was that this is the only thing that doesnt fundamentally violate physics. except for that bit about time always going forward.
Imp,
Nietzsche took this concept, perhaps unconsciously, from the Stoic doctrine of ekpyrosis, which saw the world being consumed in flames in endlessly repeating cycles. Christian Fathers took this to mean that Stoics believed that each and every event would be repeated infinitely, pagan philosophy’s threat to the Church’s theological need for free will.
Tatian (second century A.D.), in his Adversus Graecos says, “Zeno [the founder of Stoicism] has shown that after the ekpyrosis … men will be resurrected as they were. And I say that this must imply that Anytus and Meletus will again bring their accusation [against Socrates] and Busiris
slay the Strangers, and Hercules perform his labors.â€
.
Origen in his De principiis says, “The disciples of Pythagoras, and of Plato, although they appear to hold the incorruptibility of the world, yet fall into similar errors. For as the planets, after certain definite cycles, assume the same relations to one another, all things on earth will, they assert, be like what they were at the time when the same state of planetary relations existed in the world. From this point of view it necessarily follows that when, after the lapse of a lengthened cycle, the planets come to occupy towards each other the same relations
which they occupied in the time of Socrates, Socrates will again be born of the same parents, suffer the same treatment, being accused by Anytus and Meletus, and condemned by the Council of the Areopagus… We who
maintain that all things are administered by God in proportion to the relation of free will of each individual, and are ever being brought into better condition, so far as they admit of being so, and who know that the nature of our free will admits of the occurrence of contingent events…
yet we, it appears, say nothing worthy of being tested and examined.â€
A nice summary of the idea of returns:
etext.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local … ?id=dv1-74
Dunamis
Dunamis,
there is little Nietzsche didn’t borrow from the Greeks…
but thanks for the explaination…
-Imp
Imp,
Always when Nietzsche borrowed an idea he deepened it.
Dunamis
lets say the universe is in a big bang big crunch cycle. at the end of the big crunch, every particle in the universe is in an orderly matrix, theyve compressed as far as they go, which happens to be in a consistent pattern. and for simplicities sake they look like a neutron star, not a black hole. then they bounce out.
if they bounce outwards with the same force as they did 15b yrs ago, and they were in the same configuration that they were in 15b years ago, wouldnt they definetely do the same exact thing that we are doing today?
i dont see this as nietzche does. i would say that another omnisoul straps into the reharmonizing machine and a different omnisoul component uses my life. i wont be there.
I Got His “Time Loop Theory”
This is “simple common sense,” concerning humanity and historys past. Ancient Aztecs had slaves and died off, Southern Racism died off by getting beat in the Civil War, Hitlers version of human slavery was killed off. Basically the time will come when these rational thinkers will overcome their stereotypes of shit like how Blacks, Jews, and Southeast Asians are stereotyped as stupid just for living the way they want. I mean, Southeast Asia has enough unmined oil to become a second world living style. But choose not t, so we as 1st World People stereotype them as stupid. Ever stop to think, they might choose that lifestyle, because they have been on top before and choose to be humble by seeing their suffering?? I’m not saying Blacks, Southeast Asians, Muslims, ect. will rule the world. But I believe their thinking of so called “common sense” will be the main point of thought when it comes to world decision making concerning people as a whole. Common Sense is more 1st Person Emotions rather then 3rd Person View Points on others, even 2nd Person. Why you think I think so rationally and stereotype just enough to get others to see my point, while others who may not like my words could still agree?? Cus I got lots of “common sense.”
Metaphors. Could everyone be right in this world about every last little thing??
gibberish.
Tell me a logical sounding opinion yourself without re-wording others. Can you even fathom to take in others views on life like past philosophers do still today?? Doesn’t look like it with your “gibberish,” and pig-headed so called proud-to-be-an-American quote. By peer pressuring others into thinking unintentionally stuff like “Am I dumb, retarded, or crazy for my views??”
Is that Osama sentence even translated?? Thats false information on so called logical topics. That my friend is how amphetamine abusers manipulate; at least one of the ways. And if you are a so called Philosopher Minor Great, surely you could put one and two together about stuff I insert into my philosophocal vews.
Also, have you ever stopped to think why Osama even began to hate America?? Look at the way our history is, we bash people we don’t understand. Like people with completely different lifestyles and interests, most Americans hate along with most Europeans. I guess maybe growing up in a sand dune or whatever, it might make you humble about people around you, or the worlds overall opinion (Whoever has the most weapons/power gets to decide whats right for different cultures, when most of us fail to try to fully understand without stereotyping other countrys??).
…sweet…before telling you the string of thoughts…that led to this i would like to state for the most part this isnt me regirgitating material…i dont know any of these names…it came about stristly from logic. o.k…heres what i was thinking…o.k…i realized that deep deep down there was a part of me that was affraid of a god?judgement…even though i knew it was crazy…so i stated writing down all my thoughts about this and branched out…(way shortend version…) …THE FACTORS CAUSE THOUGHT: 1.past expeiriances…(which leads to)…THE FACTORS WHICH CAUSE PAST EXPIERIENCES: 1genetics 2.chance…which leads to…which is connected with…THE FACTORS WHICH THOUGHT: GENETICS and chance…(i fucking positive im not responsible for eathier!)…so…genetics and chance…cause…thought…thought…causes…behavior…behavior causes…ACTIONS!!..i most certanly had no designing or controlling of my genetics! and i most certanly cant control chance!..but still i felt deep down what if their is a god…i then thought “this isnt you fault you were raised to think this, its engrained in your brain”…i then thought…“being affraid is ridiculous a god wouldnt hold someone responsible fo genetics and chance!and even if he would theres NOTHING i can do about it so i may as well not worry about it now!..but thats the worst case scenario i thought…mos likely if there is a god it would be compleatly judgemental.(some where around here i expireienced a de ja vu feeling…i wrote it down but didnt analyze it)…“after all the artist is responsible for the paintin not the paint” …i thought…(a ton more stuff like that i wrote down)…then i thought there is know reason to even think god exists…maybe he was just a flsh of light…orsomthing…(more stuff inbettween)… i then thought if there is a god…what was before him? nothing…would that make then make the nothingness that was before him GOds god???and what was before that nothingness, more nothingness? the woul gods god have a god…and so on and son for infinity…i then concluded” this is all logical as far as the human brain can comprehend becaus it is even nothing is somthing…so i then concluded it is possible for somthing to have always existed…therefor god or "supreme force has always existed…therefore"existance has always existed…therefore existance is infinate…what has no begining has no end…there for existance will always exist…i then thought if youcant trace back to one god or supreme force…does that mean they dont exist alltogether…hmm…more likely everthing in existance pastand future…form as awhole to make up god or “or a supreme force”…so in a sense everythin make up god (including us, clouds pez disspecers ect.,)…i then pictured and drew a loop…i thought the future mus eventually loop back and reconnect with the past…(right here i felt a strong de ja vu feeling again, again i wrote it down and move on…) because if the future didnt meld or loop back into the past…that means time would have to have a starting point!..o.k. the following is true…i will write down exactly what i wrote down when it happened…"weird thought…iv noticed twice while writing this a "de ja vu sensation…then it clicke …"COULD IT BE BECAUS THIS ALFEADY HAPPENED!!!/.//‘’'[[HOLY FUCK!..i then concluded…there will always be more nothing after nothing untill the nothin turns back into somthin and it all repeats! HOLY SHIT…i wrote
i would personally like to take this time to give a shoutout to a couple godd freinds of mine: chance and genrtics…real guys i couldnt have done it without you.
later that night i was thinking does this mean each time rotaion is exactly the same…will i think this exact thought in a zillion years? did i already think it…hmmm…the best thin i could come up with was it mus be possible to at least make slight changes because lets say the first time rotation of my life…the first time around (the actual preasent time of the universe)…the first time around i wouldnt have expierienced a de ja vu feeling…and i knoe that de ja vu feelings could potentially alter the “future”…but that of course is IF de vu is authentic… i then thought…next time i feel a de ja vu feeling…whether im getting a haircut or driving…im going to immiediately take off running…to potentally expierience somthin compleatl new…then my brain exploded.
time loop theory: check out black holes. apparently what is sucked into the black hole is spit out somewhere else. but where? it could be a source for the big bang. the universe is sucked in, the spit out, sucked in, spit…we see a lot of this happening in nature.
…intresting…this is how i view our position in the world “we are the universe, observing ourselves from within ourselves”…picture it like if there was a little tiny you, inside the big you…the tiny you would not be able to see anything outside of itself (its vision would be blocked by itself…(muscle,organs, skin…)…maybe the black whole is the big yous mouth…and can suck stuff in that the little you can only see from the inside…the big you is the little you…you are a little piece of universe , observing yourself from within yourself.
i think i’m just generally medium sized thank you very much.
Look at Martin Luther King Jr being shot for being realistic. Not to outrageous, but just the right amount of realism. Ever stop to think old thinkers like this, with their surroundings (maybe racism, egoism, ect.) just made metaphors so they get their ideas published, hoping someone else with common sense translates it?? Since theirs alot of racist people out there still today, even to peoples ideas on life, which you should be able to have.
gold your so silly. look at my quote again and try and decipher what i am saying about the situation with our foreign policy. they are not actual translated quotes (the one in “” is), but ah i kinda figured this is what is on both of their minds.
this time the thing i called gibberish was even more gibberishy than the first one.
imp quotes nietzche about how if the world repeated itself it would probably be horrible and youd want to kill yourself but you cant. you respond to this by saying that history repeats itself.
you actually remind me of the last time i did meth (unknowingly!) i thought i saw all these tons of “metaphors”. i would turn on the tv and it would immediately say something that was on my mind, i think That 70’s Show said “drugs are great” as soon as i turned it on or something like that, im sure you know what i mean.
i think youre taking it a little far, and youre definetely not looking at your post in the context of the discussion. history repeats itself because people are all the same and they do the same things. galactic is talking about crazy universe metaphysics i dont know. he wasnt looking for the response you gave him.
me too! you know, last time the universe was here, you got deja vu and ran away to the same spot you will this time. unfortunately deja vu is just a brain malfunction. its like when your sensory data continues to come in but your memory stops recording for a second and then skips backwards or forwards. i dont know something complicated like that, its science fact.
Damn, this guy even writes like a stoner. you can practically hear the bong bubbling. I guess that’s what all those … represent.
You’re a tad too defensive to be “medium” sized.
Btw, if the universe is expanding and the rate of expansion is accellerating, then the universe’s entropy will never decrease. Therefore, the past (at a higher entropy than the present) can never repeat.
But of course, if modern cosmology is wrong in some way, it may be possible…
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time has to reconect with itself. if it didnt then that would mean time has a beginning(try drawing this out, i find red crayon works best)…to say time has a begining is far more insane then to say it loops back to itself. :futureman…good point, i would ultimately run to the same place (unless i was to ripped to get there)…but i still think it might be possible for slight change with each rotation…or even if everything is exactly the same…you still get to live out the best day of your life an infinate amout of times…tminnion man: if the universe is expanding and accelerating , why couldnt it contract and decelerate?..buble…picture a sky diver in slow motion…picture that it was traveling in slow motion…now lets say it was travelin so slow that in your lifespan, you could only see the section of the skydivers timeframe where he was falling(accelerating)…and where he was oppening up his arms and legs(expanding)…and that all you could see in your life time…it doesnt mean that eventually the skydiver is going to let out his chute and float(decelerate) down to ground…and like wise it doesnt mean that sky diver doesnt smoke a doobie once he reaches the ground