# Timocracy...
**URL:** https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483
**Category:** Society, Government, and Economics
**Created:** [January 25, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483 "2024-01-25T22:56:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/1 "2024-01-25T22:56:42Z")
…and the Aristocratic ethos.
Precursor of democracy that can replace democracy.
Basic tenets
\*Citizenry and the right to vote, is a privileged to be earned, not a triviality that is given.
\*The privilege of citizenship comes with duties.
\*Only citizens can hold position of social authority and power.
\*Though eligibility can be varied the basic factors of eligibility are:
-Production of tangible goods above a specific market value, to be determined.
-Military service, or service in some other capacity. Period of service to be determined.
-Loyalty to the State.
-Age - to be determined.
Additional eligibility factors can be…
\*Race/Ethnicity - racial and ethnic identity to be determined.
\*Paideia - language, spiritual faith.
\*IQ - production of tangible goods ought to weed out low IQ individuals.
\*Sex/Gender
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 10:14am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/2 "2024-01-26T10:14:27Z")
Aristocratic Ethos
Philotimo
Dignity
◙Lucidity ◙Courage ◙Autonomy ◙Honour ◙Ambition
◙Discipline ◙Pride ◙Integrity ◙Generosity ◙Loyalty
---
### Author:  [@Urwrongx1000](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Urwrongx1000)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 10:38am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/3 "2024-01-26T10:38:35Z")
> [@Lorikeet](#):
>
> Additional eligibility factors can be…
> \*Race/Ethnicity - racial and ethnic identity to be determined.
I feel that Ethnic-Racial Hierarchy needs to be the most important factor of a society, for a very specific reason: The accumulated wealth, wisdom, and knowledge of a society must be inherited by Kin and never racial/ethnic Strangers. This means that rewards and victories must belong to the children wrought by the genetically ‘pure’ strains of that society (royal families and nobility, Aristocracy proper). Once a Society’s wealth and/or loyalty begins to wane, toward a Stranger or Outsider nation (as USA now claims to owe itself to Israel), then the integrity of your society is fundamentally ruined and compromised. It is no longer Autonomous.
It is (internally) destroyed, while appearing to maintain (outward) integrity. It has no (genetic) Future, except dependent upon the service to and approval by a foreign nation.
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 11:21am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/4 "2024-01-26T11:21:31Z")
So do I, but every socioeconomic system must allow for variations.
---
### Author:  [@Urwrongx1000](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Urwrongx1000)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 11:36am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/5 "2024-01-26T11:36:56Z")
> [@Lorikeet](#):
>
> So do I, but every socioeconomic system must allow for variations.
If a price tag can be set upon Kin-selection, then rest assured, the World Banks will eventually line against you to buy you out.
And if you can’t be bought, then you would be targeted for elimination, hence the Russian royal family…
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/6 "2024-01-26T20:24:36Z")
Philotimo: love of honor; love of what is true; what is just.
For a brief Americanized description of the Hellenic/Pagan Aristocratic ethos watch this: [size=50][Vid: Hyperboreans – The Greek Secret of Philotimo][/size]
Philotimo is a Greek term which is difficult to define, despite their brave effort to translate it into English. Some of the participants are representatives of the nihilistic dogma but they do offer a general sense of the concept.
Philo {φίλο} = friend, kind – timo, timi, timio {[size=80]τιμώ, τιμή, τίμιο[/size]} = honour, price/cost, honest, value, true…
Relating to Timocracy: honouring yourself is to honour what is right about you –your past/nature, including your ancestors, your heritage, and goes beyond it; to accept the cost/price of being what you are, with clarity and honesty, accepting all of it, particularly what does not agree with your projected idea/ideal, your object/objective, which you choose to identify with as a continuance of this past.
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/7 "2024-01-26T20:28:20Z")
Who you call your friends and who consider your enemies define you.
* * *
Truest are the men who do not do it for fame and fortune, but do it because they could not live with themselves if they did not.
> [@Röpke](#):
>
> Of what avail is any amount of well-being, if at the same time, we steadily render the world more vulgar, uglier, noisier, and drearier and if we lose the moral and spiritual foundations of their existence? Man simply does not live by radio, automobiles, and refrigerators alone, but by the whole unpurchaseable world beyond the market and turnover figures, the world of dignity, beauty, poetry, grace, chivalry, love, and friendship, the world of community, variety of life, freedom, and fullness of personality.
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/8 "2024-01-26T20:32:32Z")
---
### Author:  [@Costard](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Costard)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/9 "2024-01-26T21:20:41Z")
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 12:09pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/10 "2024-01-27T12:09:57Z")
> [@Quigley](#):
>
> It seems to me that Classical culture was aristocratic; it was clarid; it was urban; it was balanced; and it was mundane. One of these words will not be found in any dictionary. When I say that Classical culture was ‘clarid,’ I mean that it was lucid, clear, rational, in some ways like the Mediterranean sunlight infusing the atmosphere to an astounding clarity. Classical culture kept certain elements of its aristocratic outlook, and never, like the Hebrews, came to regard man as a helpless and cringing worm.
> When we say that Classical culture was aristocratic, we mean much more than that it was the possession of an upper-class minority. We mean that this culture refused to regard either profit or power as goals of life, but rather tended to regard honor and the esteem of one’s equals as at least equally worthy goals. It was quite willing to accept a goal for and an organization of life that functioned economically on a deficit basis, that could not be made available to all men or was not comprehensible to all men, but that had to be supported by many men who could neither share in it nor understand it. This point of view had an aversion to anything practical or vocational; it regarded its goal (honor) as one whose appeal is not (like wealth or power) automatically appreciated but one that is achieved by breeding and discipline. It regarded man as by nature close to the gods but very remote from the animals; it did not accept the equality of men, but did insist on a fraternity of equals within a select group of participants. It emphasized the dignity of the individual, at first only the individual within the chosen group; but later, as democratic influences spread, it tended to grant equality and individual dignity to all, not by bringing the outlook of ordinary men into the select group, but rather by spreading the outlook of the select group outward to ordinary men. To do this it was necessary, while allowing the select group to grow constantly larger, to continue to emphasize the superiority of the members of the group over outsiders. At first the group consisted only of those of noble birth; later it was the citizens of the city-state. As this group was expanded, emphasis continued on the distinction between free men and slaves, between Greek and barbarian, between those who had the political franchise and those who lacked it. Only when Classical culture was in its decline (after the time of Christ) did it begin to accept the equality of all men. Even then it insisted that all men had human dignity, had a kind of divinity, and were worthy of respect. Thus to the very end, Classical culture kept certain elements of its aristocratic outlook, and never, like the Hebrews, came to regard man as a helpless and cringing worm. One last characteristic of an aristocratic outlook that Classical culture maintained to the end was its belief in social regression rather than social progress and its conviction that the golden age was to be found in the past rather than in the future. This gave the culture an underlying pessimism redeemed by the fact that man’s fate, however hopeless, must be borne with dignity…
> In saying that Classical culture was clarid, we mean that it possessed the qualities of rationality, lucidity, and clarity. This culture sought explanations rather than sensations. These explanations were regarded as satisfactory if they led to some concept that could be grasped by man’s conscious mind…
> When we say that this culture was urban, we mean that it was possessed by a city-dwelling group who knew one another personally, saw one another frequently, exchanged views by conversation or letter, rather than by media of mass communication, were remote from the productive system, either agriculture or commerce, and regarded loyalty to the state and tis gods as the chief duty and chief privilege of existence.
> When we say that this culture was mundane, we mean that it was humanistic, anthropocentric, and this worldly. It regarded man as the center of everything; it interpreted everything in terms of human aims; it had no real concern with life after death or with the gods, and no real idea of eternity or of reward or punishment in the afterlife. It had no real idea of the nature of divinity until very late, and then achieved this idea as a consequence of an aristocratic pursuit of truth, a rationalistic pursuit by men with leisure and with no real regard for wealth or power. This mundane character of Classical culture meant that this culture, in extreme cases, was materialistic in its outlook; but it was able to escape the ordinary consequences of materialism because of its ideals of aristocracy and moderation.
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [January 31, 2024, 1:35pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/11 "2024-01-31T13:35:52Z")
---
### Author:  [@Costard](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Costard)
#### Post date: [January 31, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/12 "2024-01-31T15:27:15Z")
A lot of genetic recession there… makes me feel a bit queasy. Hard to look at.
---
### Author:  [@Urwrongx1000](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Urwrongx1000)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2024, 7:56am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/13 "2024-02-01T07:56:26Z")
> [@Costard](#):
>
> A lot of genetic recession there… makes me feel a bit queasy. Hard to look at.
Here’s a racial list more to your liking, Coastard, you’re welcome: [ibb.co/BPqXzhv](https://ibb.co/BPqXzhv)
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/14 "2024-02-01T15:58:56Z")
---
### Author:  [@Pandoras\_Box](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Pandoras_Box)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/15 "2024-02-01T19:39:10Z")
> [@Lorikeet](#):
>
> [attachment=0]GFM-oV5asAAYFwc.jpg[/attachment]
So, according to Aristotle, then, it would be best for Greeks in the US to head back to Greece. Or at least to try to secede in some small sector in the US with other Greeks. I mean, to Aristotle even the category white people in the US would be way too mixed. All those damn northern barbarian descendants, for example. And why the earlier picture with all the redheads. Are those supposed to be ethnically pure Greeks? Or was that post sending out a big hello get organized to the Irish or maybe some kin group in Iceland?
This is a weird forum. This is my second thread, both radically dominated by one speaker, each kinda all over the place.
---
### Author:  [@Lorikeet](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Lorikeet)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/16 "2024-02-01T22:48:24Z")
Who said anything about Greeks?
---
### Author:  [@Pandoras\_Box](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Pandoras_Box)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2024, 6:29am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/17 "2024-02-02T06:29:41Z")
> [@Lorikeet](#):
>
> Who said anything about Greeks?
You did, two posts up. Presumably thinking it was relevant to something now, the US, the UK: taking the OP as context for bringing in Aristotle’s ideas. I don’t know where you are in the world, perhaps you are in Greece, but I doubt your readers here are. For example, his ideas of ethnic group don’t fit well with the modern ‘white’. Nearly everyone is a multiculturalist to Aristotle.
---
### Author:  [@Bob](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Bob)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2024, 6:56am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/18 "2024-02-02T06:56:13Z")
Timocracy, in Platonism, is a form of government in which the rulers are motivated by ambition for honour, power, and military glory. Plato was critical of timocracy in his philosophical work “The Republic,” in which he presented a dialogue between Socrates and other characters, discussing various forms of government and their potential flaws. The conversation depicts timocracy as the third-best form of government, following aristocracy (rule by the best) and oligarchy (rule by the few wealthy). It sounds quite familiar if we look at the political landscape today.
Plato recognises some positive aspects of timocracy, such as its leaders’ strong emphasis on courage and bravery. However, he also identifies significant drawbacks. One major criticism Plato has of timocracy is that it tends to devolve into a focus on wealth accumulation. Over time, the love of honour and power can lead to merely pursuing material wealth, creating a society where economic pursuits dominate. According to Plato, this eventually leads to the degradation of the political system into a lower form of government, which he calls an oligarchy. Again, I look at America (but also the other blocs) and ask myself whether we are regressing.
Aristotelianism isn’t much better, which presents a form of government in which civic honour or political power increases with the amount of property one owns. Still, it differs somewhat from Plato’s views. Aristotle’s idea of aristocracy is a form of government in which the best-qualified citizens, often those with virtuous qualities and a good education, rule for the common good. Aristotle’s use of the term “aristocracy” is not solely based on property ownership.
We seem to be heading towards a neo-aristocracy.
---
### Author:  [@Pandoras\_Box](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Pandoras_Box)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2024, 6:59am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/19 "2024-02-02T06:59:59Z")
> [@Bob](#):
>
> We seem to be heading towards a neo-aristocracy.
by ‘we are heading’ you could have meant, in the direction the thread is heading or it could be more generally in society. But we do have an aristocracy already and most of them have little common culture in something like noble character or virtue ethics. Nor do they care much about cities or nations.
---
### Author:  [@Bob](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Bob)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2024, 7:23am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483/20 "2024-02-02T07:23:12Z")
> [@Pandoras Box](#):
>
> > [@Bob](#):
> >
> > We seem to be heading towards a neo-aristocracy.
>
> by ‘we are heading’ you could have meant, in the direction the thread is heading or it could be more generally in society. But we do have an aristocracy already and most of them have little common culture in something like noble character or virtue ethics. Nor do they care much about cities or nations.
I meant that liberal democracies are heading that way, obviously including republics, because there is an inherent sense of privilege in people who have wealth, and they tend to believe they know better.
[Next page](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/timocracy/49483.md?page=2)