To Have Sex or Not to Have Sex, That, is My Question.

A week ago, I met a girl in my favorite bookstore. We got to talking and spent about 5 hours sitting in the isle, just completely unaware of a world existing around us. The story however, gets complicated; because she is 4 years younger than me – I’m 20, she’s . . . well, turning 17 tomorrow. The thing is, I feel extremely comfortable around her and she around me. Hence, a week ago we decided to “get together.”

Well, a few days ago, we made out in my car; nothing too serious, but wow! It was . . . amazing! I mean, let me re-phrase that, incredible! In fact, I ended up hitting a suburban family’s car in the ass with my Beemer on the way home. However, I guess this should be the point that I mention, that I’ve only made out once previously in my life – with a girl that chased after me for about a year, until I finally gave in to her (I was very high and didn’t like the experience at all). I mean really, think back to your first kiss, tell me not, that it was not like kissing a camel? Exactly. So, back to the story. Greatly distressed over the shitty experience me and the first girl had, I re-vowed to not do anything with any girl that I didn’t have feelings for.

Anyway, this girl, left me completely mesmerized, because she literally read into me – we had some really deep conversations to say the least. So, I decided to make out with her, and to my very great heterosexual delight, I absolutely love kissing this girl, and all the rest of it – my head’s in a spin. The thing is, here comes the complications, there’s another girl (yes I know – looks like a bad Hollywood movie). This girl, who is in my honors literature class, whom not only I can’t take my eyes off, seems to be an incredible person, and one that is truly on my level. However, she seems sexually repressed; in fact, judging by the things she says in class, I know that she is sexually repressed – and that quite frankly is horrible because that was the main reason that I hated making out with the first girl I told you about – aside from it seeming like kissing a camel, she was very prudish.

Now, let’s rewind a little. My girlfriend, the one I’ve been with for a week, is quite the opposite; she is, by her own admittance, half a nymphomaniac. Quite literally. Every guy’s dream, right? Maybe not. This poor girl, yes poor, has had an incredibly tumultuous life. She’s been molested, abused, raped, – gang raped that is – and too much other horror that I can’t even bare to write. She is an incredible person, but comes from a very, very, very, bad neighborhood, not to mention, home. I’m talking streets where she gets hit on by some 30 and 40 year old guy on every corner – it truly is disgusting. Sigh – the wretched world we live in. (And one wonders why I have issues with god).

Now, in our conversations, we got very intimate; I do most of the listening though – I’m trying to play the psychologist and endearing listener; you can imagine me as Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting: “It’s not your fault, It’s not your fault,” sort of thing. But let me tell you, her life, as you can see, is something very tough to deal with.

Now, she has had about 20 sexual partners. I, if you didn’t guess, am a virgin (by choice though). Yet, as you can infer, none of them ever loved her – and this is a girl in dire need of being loved and cared for.

I make no judgments about her. Given her case history, I can understand the type of life she’s had, and could never, ever, hold it against her. I am, being the philosopher that I am, beyond moral condemnation, and all the more, keenly aware of how her life has been determined for her. I do not hold her responsible for the way she is – I hold nothing against this absolutely amazing human being. She feels, however, and rightly so, that all men want from her is sex. She is dying to have more, but have never once had it. Here, however, is where I come in. Unfortunately, I do not love her. Try as I might, I cannot command my heart to love.

Here is my problem though: just 20 minutes ago, she sent me a text message, telling me she wants sex with me. We initially agreed, that since we both hoped to have more than sex, we would wait several months.

Unfortunately, it seems that she has understood that I’m drawing away from her, indicated by my non-verbal behavior yesterday when I saw her. So she seems to want to use sex to draw me back in. After all, it seems, that by her own affirmation, its all she’s good for her (my job was to convince her otherwise). But, my heart, truly, is with the girl in my literature class – who by the way, shares my feelings (we have the whole subliminal, unconscious, flirting game going on in class – exchanging glances and all that travail). But my goodness, sex with the other girl, I know, will be amazing – especially because she is so sexually open, and comfortable; and, knows I’m a virgin and what not; plus, makes me feel comfortable about it.

Her birthday is tomorrow; I got her some presents, but, she wants sex. I don’t want to breakup with her on her birthday – she is depressed enough as it is. You see, she had a horrible birthday last year – and I don’t want to cause a repeat. But I don’t love her! What am I supposed to do? If I come out and be open, completely open about everything, the way I feel and all that, she will be devestated – and that, for all practical purposes, will be me breaking up with her on her birthday! It will just be dreadful.

So what am I to do, O wise ones? Either way, it seems I can’t avoid hurting her now. And, the thing is, if I have sex, and I stay together with her – to break up sometime in the future, say, a year from now, I will lose an opportunity at what may be love with the other girl. And, to be quite frank, sex, is very, very, enticing.

So, please respond soon, as I only have a few hours before I have to resolve this befuddled mess.

I have been in some similar situations and I made bad
(really bad) choices because I didn’t listen to my
(pick one) heart, soul, inner being, whatever.
You already know what you want, you are just looking
for reasons now. Run with your heart.
That’s all I got.

Kropotkin

I’d run with my heart if it could get away from my penis! That’s why I hate relationships – why I never commited to a girl I didn’t love before – I knew I’d end up crushing them #^#%^&%$!

I know I got deep and all in my previous post, but please don’t mistake that depth for actual depth. I’m like Tabula, deeply shallow – and that means, this girl’s got a tongue ring. And is absolutly, insanely, unbelievably, good with this stuff. See how disgusting us men are. Fucking wretchedness!

Firstly, I have dated a variety of academic prude types and they are best left alone. I do not want to be with a woman that can control kissing me or anything else. Why would anyone want that?

However, you also seem to have an extreme with the other girl. Hi, it’s my birthday now where’s the sex. That does not sound normal to me. Did you know that many girls that have had traumatic childhoods can be very sexual? It’s not pleasure that they are after though, but rather a way to feel degraded. That means that as soon as that’s out of the way the shit starts happening. There isn’t shit that you can do about that either as her problems go beyond love.

Also, if you found yourself put off by a bad kissing experience (never had one myself) then imagine what sex, confusion, and self-loathing will do to you. I’m serious when I say that you need to take care of you, because you sound extra sensitive.

However, I would see what happens with the girl because you like her so much. Tell her that you don’t want anyone’s feelings getting hurt and want to really get to know her. Then do that.

However, if you are the kind of guy that can have sex with someone and not look back then go for it. However, since have never had sex before you might want to be careful with how you handle it, because you won’t forget it too soon.

How was that?

Hi Adlerian,

thanks for responding.

Yes, I assumed her sexual promiscuity is due to what happened to her in her childhood.

So, you think that that is what she wants sex for? To feel degraded? That makes sense on one level, but I would really appreciate it if you could explain to me a little bit more in depth of how that works.

Well, thanks for the concern; but, I was put off because I was young, very idealistic, and very, very, high. Plus, I was with a girl I really didn’t like – a very bad kisser, in comparison, at least – who had black lipstick on. Its the lipstick that probably did it; that, and adolescent awkwardness. Plus I remembered my professor saying the first time you kiss it’s like kissing a camel, being high, that’s what I was thinking in my head. Wretched professors and damn psychological suggestion. And, I didn’t mind the kissing part too much, certainly loved the groping; its just the psychological issues of doing what I did really disturbed me (there’s more to that story, but maybe some other time).

You mean, the one I’m currently with? I know it’ll never work, there is a great depth to her, as you can imagine thanks to all she has gone through, but no future for us – or love on my part. I wanted to write her a poem or something for her birthday, so I smoked some weed, which usually opens up the flow to my unconsious, but ended up thinking about the girl in my english class.

Damnit man, I really wish you had something better to say about the intellectual prudes – she is really beautiful too – isn’t there a way to open them up?

And, just to add a little bit on top of everything, I found out a girl who I’ve known for about 2 years online, is in New York right now for a few days – she just left me her number and told me to call her (on her profile I just checked it said: swinger)-- oh great! She too, incidentally, lost her virginity to date rape…

Keep trying Adlerian, because I need all the advice your willing to give bro.

Also, as a psychologist, what do you think this girl needs? What can I do for her? She has seen a psychologist herself, and if you can believe it, her psychologist didn’t believe her about what happened to her. How can she be helped? She doesn’t remember most of the things that happened to her. Is it benificial for her to remember? Will that help her or make it worse for her? Does she need to remember all those tramuas to get over them? Will she always use sex to feel degraded?–if that is really true, I definitally can’t bear to do that to her. (But, honestly, it seems to me, that she has it in her head, that her purpose in life, is to help other men out in theres – so she says anyway). I’m perpelexed and very uncertain of what to do. And lastly, she’s been wanting to have sex with me for a while now, she asked to do it when we made out, but I said no – trying to keep by the plan (you know, hoping to be the guy to convince her she’s worth more than just to fuck).

Geez…what happened to her? Usually, a therapist doesn’t say things like, I don’t believe you. You would have to say that you were abducted by aliens of something.

Anyway, just because someone likes sex doesn’t mean that they are crazy. However, being promiscuous has a different spin. That word implies a sort of recklessness about the sexual act, rather than an enjoyment of it.

We all must admit that we live in a society that has value judgments about sexual behavior and most other behaviors in life. Most normal people do not want to be seen as being or doing bad things. It violates their self-esteem. However, if you have someone with poor self esteem and a generally bad outlook on life, then they may want to do things to reinforce the self-imposed concept that they are bad people. So, the girl might act like a whore and the guy might act like a player, or he may stay in his room and masturbate all of the time. Then this type of person ends up feeling badly about it afterward. That of course increases the intensity of self-hatred.

Also, people that were molested may become obsessed with sex for a variety of complex reasons. On reason is that they will create situations that mimic the original event. Maybe the reason is to continue to punish themselves for their experience. However, at this point it’s self-imposed and that’s the weird part.

One diagnosis where all of this behavior can be seen is called Borderline Personality Disorder. It’s usually explained via a child abuse model and my experience backs that up. The main problem with these people is that the feel empty and angry a lot. I have frequently imagined that only the love of a god-like being could make them happy. They also tend to hate people, because they overgeneralize about their abusers. Sometimes, they will seem very spicy and passionate but really they aren’t because it’s hate that you are seeing. Sometimes these people will seem very caring and be into causes such as vegetarianism. That is yet another cover for hatred toward humanity.

Also, there can be a lot of stress reducing or thrill seeking substance abuse.

Another thing is that they are seductive because they really are feeling badly and don’t like their own behavior. So, they can be very sympathetic, and that sucks you in. This is how a trip for coffee can turn into a seven year shit fest.

If she is really confused and messed up then you can’t help her. She needs to decide for herself how she needs to get better.

At this point though, I’m just speculating because I don’t know enough about her. Fill me in.

Wow! You are EXACTLY on the money. First of all, she is a vegetarian. Secondly, obviously, she is very angry, but does come off as a sweetheart (only in private though – I think that’s due to her enviornment, having to play the role of a street wise and tough girl) and as extermely passionate – she told me that she only dreams in red and black, which to her, represents, passion and darkness.

She was also overweight, and I think may be anorexic due to that – I ate with her, and she was very, very awkard at the dinner table. She wouldn’t even look at me as she ate – I assume its shame of eating (she, I’m sure, has some type of eating disorder – but she’s open with me about it).

The problem is, I think, she really opened up to me. I think, she thinks I’m really different, because I saw into her. I mean, I really played the role of the psychologist (no condemnation, complete acceptance, reassurance and care – I told her she was usuing alcholol and sex as means of escaping herself [from having to deal with herself] and she agreed). Which led to her crying to me on the phone, for an hour or so, telling me all the dreadful things that have happened to her. She has also had two misscarages . . . yea… So I think, she really has a longing for someone to love her unconditionally. That, and she has a deep fear of being alone (that’s what she said)–which is why she moves from boyfriend to boyfriend. I offered to be friends with her initially, but she said she wanted more – and I conceded (I wish I knew why).

But again, the minute I started to withdraw, she began to use sex to try to keep me close to her. I guess I should add that she is bisexual, and when she masturbates, she thinks only of girls. Yet, she maintains, she likes having sex with guys. And to put the icing on the cake, I’m her “last heterosexual thread.” Her brother, abuses her by the way – she has no father, because he left her mother when she was born. Her brother has always blamed her as being the reason she does not have a father. I know, I know… terrible.

So what do you make of all this?

p.s.

She is an amazing actress, I see her shift from one mood to another in the blink of an eye – its quite unbelieable. The thing is, she makes it seem extremly genuine. For example, she can literally, will herself to cry on the spot. Which is really bothersome to me, because I have a feeling she may be acting with me when she plays the role of a sweetheart, or when we are intimate. Does this fit into the picture of a borderline personality disorder complex?

Also, how would a psychologist, go about helping someone like her? Is there really no way to help her? I mean, for all that she’s been through, she seems extradonarily, alright. She uses music and poetry, to express all this madness. If only I could love her – that would freakin do it. What a mess.

Honestly TUM, I would just have sex with her. If it’s not going to work out… there’s nothing you can do to change that, but you can make her happy… especially on her birthday. Whatever her reasons are for wanting to have sex, be it to feel shamed, or degraded or… even just for the pleasure, it’s what she wants. Some people can be so complex, but it’s easy to see when wherever they are in their head, they’re happy.

There’s nothing wrong with abstaining from sex at all, but just do it once and get it out of the way. Waiting around for some special occasion is useless… cause usually it doesn’t come until you’ve built it up to be something impossible. Plus, it’ll give you a framework in which to think about it.

T.U.M,

Peter Kropotkin gave you the most important answer - follow your heart. It’s obvious that you try to defend the first girl in your discussion here - you’re in love with her! Actually I don’t see where is the problem, you’ve had a kind of relationship with her - just follow your heart, I don’t see what could be wrong with her.

But one more question - do you have contact with the girl from your classes?

UM,

I will write more tomorrow. I have to go to bed, but just try to imagine what I might say in the meantime.

Yes, but with me its different. She wants sex to be an expression of love. She thinks I’m different from all the others she’s been with – not just using her. So, I can’t just have meaningless sex with her – common! Look at her history – you just can’t do that to a person (no matter how strong my impulse is, I can’t bring myself to do that).

nofearinc,

Which girl? The one I’m with now? If I loved her man – I wouldn’t have this problem; I would instantly have sex with her, and try to help her as much as I humanly could. But I don’t love her, though, I obviously do care about her – afterall, I’m not inhuman.

Alderarian,

thanks man. lol… let’s hope your not too late, because I may really end up doing something really stupid in this insane situation.

I didn’t get have you something with this girl or it’s only based on your external opinion about her? It’s always complicated situation, because they are both quite different - like the sun and the moon. It’s hard to decide on your own so you have to listen to your heart or to your moral values - what you prefer from the first and from the second girl and put them on scales.

Now going to the fitness club, when I come back I’ll read it one more time and write again. Good luck!

I didn’t necessarily say you had to.

Ok… think of it this way. If you’re that true to your morals, then if you don’t love her, don’t fuck her. But… just make sure you realize the difference between not loving someone, and loving them the most you can and realizing that it can’t work out. Some people are simply not capable of the same amount of love from you, as opposed to someone else, but it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Good Luck, you’ll need it whatever path you choose :smiley:

Well… having written all this out, gave me a bit of an easier way of thinking about it all. And thanks to all the replies as well . . . I think, I’ve come to a decesion.

Tommorow, I’ll simply go with the truth: “I don’t love you.” No matter how hard that is to say… If she still wants sex – yea, I’m down. Though I doubt it – I have a feeling this will crush her. And of all things, on her birthday… (And god she has been soooooo sweet to me. . . this is just horrible). Sigh . . . perhaps this is my new philosophy on life: the truth, wherever it leads; no self-decpetion, full responsibility for my actions – ah, existentialism is one truly burdensom philosophy. It’s so much easier to be a Satanist, or completely unprincipled and/or unsympathetic to others.

Good Luck with that :smiley:

Well, my best-est best friend just got through going through a 5 year relationship that ended in castastrophe, because he didn’t follow one simple rule:
DON’T GO OUT WITH CRAZY PEOPLE.
Now, I know it sounds harsh, and I’m not saying you have to hate or shun or not be helpful to crazy people. But don’t date them. Even if it’s not their fault they are crazy. My best friend just broke up with a girl who was raped, who had been messing around behind his back for years and years, hitting her self in the leg with a hammer and saying she was falling while horseback riding, posing for nude pictures on the internet, all of it behind is back. Why? For some reason that The Adlerian could describe to you, I’m sure. The point? The 5 year relationship ended up being a catastrophe for both of them.

Now, if you want to have sex with someone that you don’t love and have no intention of dating, that just gets into ethics, and you can sort your own affairs out there.

I think there’s nothing unethical about boffing someone you don’t love, provided you don’t do so under false pretenses. If TUM straight-up tells her the truth, and she still wants to do him, I say more power to them both. :slight_smile:

Just remember to “be safe.”

yes, but the sort of people that have been billed as crazy here tend to go into extremes, after they find out that the person does not do what they wish them to do.
it’s needless to say she want’s to be loved. everyone does,. her way is just to do things and experience things in extremes. it’s not that she was born different but she convinced herself to be different, and she acts like that. I believe it’s all about acting.
you mentioned she is a great actress. yes, that adds up. because once a person acts well and too convincingly they start to take on those characteristics they act and then they become a real part of them.
I guess this girl is a bit shalow and that you deserve another one, even for good sex, and you’d find out quite soon that there are more girls which can attract you as much as she in more ways.

Obviously you have to choose.

You are thinking about the girl with the big sexual experience. And you’re right. You are a man. And we, men, think about a single thing when we see a girl: “Wow, she looks fantasting, but without the clothes she’ll look better.” or “How will she look like naked?”. We think about having sex most of the time. And there’s nothing bad, odd or unusual about it because that’s our nature. We, men, are looking forward to make our generation. That’s the nature’s law. And you do not have to feel guilty about it. Besides you are talking more
about that girl than the girl in your class. It seems that you’re attracted to her.
And who wouldn’t be? Maybe a gay?

But here comes the thing called “love”.

“Do I love her?”
“Does she loves me?”
“Does she want sex and only sex from me?”

There are people that prefer to lose their virginity with “The One” in their life. And that’s good.

If she wants sex give it to her. Make sex. Change the girl. Try to cure her.
Take her problem like it is yours. Show her that you care. You may not love her but you will fall in love with her. Spend more time with this young lady. The women are like the cats: be with them, embrace them, show them love, tease them a little and… congratulations!!! You won a friend, or something more. Who knows.

So my advice is:
CHOOSE THE 17 YEARS OLD GIRL AND TRY TO HELP HER. HAVE SEX, OF COURSE IF YOU WANT. BUT TRY TO HELP HER.THIS GIRL NEEDS LOVE AND CARE. TRY GIVING IT TO HER.

That is what I was going to do.

I hope I’ve helped.

Best of luck…

20 partners? How about FREAKING STDs? Have you thought about that??