To zeusy

Some notes on Perspectivism.

Perspectivism is essentially the philosophy of Nietzsche (and later, Quine). But I will avoid, to some extent, using N as an example, because I am kindasorta a perspectivist, myself. Actually, I call my self a contextualist, but the differences between my view and N’s are subtle, and not important except in some details. What perspectivism holds is that any view, any principle, any idea, cannot be grounded except in a given context - there is no universal basis for any view. That context is specific to an individual, but perspectivism is neither subjectivism nor is it relativism - two schools that perspectivism is often confused with.

The subjectivist has discovered that he exists, as an individual (more or less) and bases his philosophy upon this fact. But, as Descartes showed, the subjectivist may call upon God, for instance, to be a unifying force, to provide a grounding for “objective” fact. The perspectivist cannot do this. The perspectivist has no external unifying force upon which to rely. The unifying principle for a perspectivist is the perpsectivist himself, and his psychological and biological needs.

The relativist has no unifying principle at all - he holds that there is no basis whatever to make judgements. This is why true relativists are as scarce as hen’s teeth.

So, what is this context that the perspectivist employs? Truly, there are many. The perspectivist examines any issue from many points of view, and here I will call upon Nietzsche - his analysis is always manifold - the contexts are conceptual at times, and “physical” at others. History, psychology, religion, social arrangements - whatever tool is available. But the perspectivist also assumes will - which can be seen as N’s Will to Power, or as simple agency, or as the evident limitations of the human organism.

Decisions, actions, ideas that are necessary for human survival - for the survival of the individual organism, or for these organisms collectively, are adequate groundings for the perspectivist. In this way, truth is irrelevant, except as a psychological phenomenon - truth in the classical greek usage, or in the modern religious usage of that word, that is. My own contention is that the survival needs of the organism replace any epistemic considerations - that neither Nietzsche nor I can make a coherent epistemological statement.

Likewise, any morality that can be considered transferable on principle to another human organism is out of the question as well, for the perspectivist - only the projection of power from one organism to another is allowed. But here, might does not equal right - it equals victory. For the perspectivist, there are no crusades, no holy wars, but only wars. The perspectivist cannot be a relativist - the only criteria is winning - the question of rightness, in its usual sense, anyway, never arises.

Unlike subjectivism, perspectivism starts with the individual and ends there. The question is not “what is good for me?”, but “what do I want?” or “what do I need?”. Any considerations that resemble moral ones (and they will) are subservient to the perspectivist’s own needs. While the perspectivist is keenly aware of culture (this is a vast and general context for the perspectivist), it is always a backdrop for the individual. So, while there is more than one basis for making judgements, there is only one for any given individual - within the matrix of the specific contexts that the perspectivist employs - that is to say, that matrix is composed of those contexts.

So, my contentention is that perspectivism disallows both morality and epistemology. It also disallows any metaphysics or teleology or ontological considerations. It assumes existence - although I will concede that true Nietzsche scolars may disagree. Perspectivism examines the world from the vantage point of an individual organism (that of a given perspectivist) who has certain requirements, including basic physical ones, and seeks to fulfill those requirements. It is in this way reductive - the perspectivist seeks to strip away ideas that are unecessary, and to start from the bare facts of physical existence. “Truth” is a psychological and not epistemic state. Values are measured against the individual, and not against any absolutist conception. Any absolutism that can be detected in a perspectivist view is the absolutism of the individual. The perspectivist starts counting at “1” and not at “infinity”.

Hope that’s even a little coherent. Maybe Nihilistic will bail me out here.

edit - I made a stupid typo above - “might does not equal might” has been correct to "might does not equal right.

On the KDH Nietzschboard I indtrodcuced a ‘doctrine’ running parallel to the will to power - the ‘lust for truth’. This resonates with your statement here. ‘Truth’ is a psychological state of supreme actuality - found in, sex, art, drug reveries, war, and in some very practical individuals in contemplation. I believe the idea of lust for truth was inspired by (more so than ‘truth is a woman’) a reply you wrote to a most of mine four years or so back, where you stated that I (after I had written a series of particularily extatic and erratic posts) founded my thinking on ‘metaphysical lust’.
I interpreted this differently that you must have intended - I figure you meant lust for metaphysics, I thought of a metaphysical universe behaving according to lust. I still see that - except I no longer see what I once saw as metaphysical as beyond physicality, because of the physical impact it has on me. All perspectivism, this - based on experience, my interpretation of it in the light of how to make it to my benefit.
Lust for truth. What do you think?

I remember that exchange, Jake, but not that you misinterpreted me.

Yeah, lust. Lust for truth, or at least the psychological conviction that acts as a stand-in for truth. It doesn’t have to be the truth of our dreams for us to get our philosophical rocks off.

So to speak.

Why not? I don’t understand. I think it does.

Oh, heck. I was just waxing poetic. Or something. When I talk about this stuff, I don’t much like to speak literally. My OP was a chore. Let’s say it’s not metaphysical certitude, but physical certainty.

Any better?

Jakob,

Would it make any sense if i said there is no lust for truth, you ARE truth?

Thanks for the vote of confidence, T. But I am only truth when I fulfill my desire. That at least is the point I was making here

Sorry for messing up your thread, faust. I’m afraid I can’t control myself.
I found another bit of the doctrine

Well Jake, I would say that this is that metaphysical lust rearing its ugly head again. It’s not my idea of perspectivism. I cannot read Nietzsche and see any metaphysic. I know that there are those that think my view of N is poppycock. In fact, my wife left me over just this issue. That, and the toilet seat being left up.

It’s not Nietzsche-an, wasn’t intended to be. Ollie’s finally convinced me that I am not a Nietzsche-an. It came as a relief.

Oh yeah. I was looking at that thread with one eye only. And I was squinting through that one.

Oh, the humanity!

Will to power,
Lust for truth,
or,
Amalgumation of situations and outcomes…?

“Will to power” AND “Lust for truth” are monistic concepts.

They each look for, or display, “one principal alone in everything”.

Everything is more than one. There is no one principal. There is no one law. Life today is not what it was many years ago. “Meaning of life” changes through the aeons, and humans want one meaning when they are both insecure and mentally incapable of fathoming too complex of a system, all at the same time, so instead, they hunger for monistic “truth”, and get a face full of bullshit, or nothing at all.

You can’t reduce infinity. :wink:

In fact, Dan, I agree. My position is that Nietzsche does, too. Again, that won’t find a lot of agreement among Nietzscheans, I think. The Will to Power is not a causative force. Causation can only be reckoned “backwards” - back from the effects. The WTP is motive, which is a different thing - it can’t be separated from the individual. It describes the individual. Just as a definition can’t be separated from a word. The definition doesn’t “cause” the word.

The WTP is monistic, but not causative. It’s not the “why” of what is, but the thing itself that is. It is a story, a myth, a fairy tale. But Nietzsche believes that myth is the best “explanatory” device we have about the Big Questions. The fiction occurs when we put into language nonverbal, nonverbalisable facts. The real mistake we make is in thinking that facts are inherently translatable into language. Nietzsche does indeed put into language that which cannot “accurately” be put into language - the difference between Nietzsche and most everybody else is that he knows this.

Nietzsche is keenly aware that there is no One Principle - that is what perspectivism is all about.

But eventually, his words just appear monistic. Maybe not in his mind, but as words, it’s easy to see them as monistic.

The “overman” and “the will to power” were given to replace nihilistic atrophy and suicidal decay. He was an unhealthy man, who obviously did not enjoy his body decaying, no matter how well he did in not pittying himself.

But focus itself, within a mind, is usually monistic. It has to be! Focus, concentration, it’s the only way a brain like this can handle how complex reality is. It must focus all of its power and attension into one principal at a time, the brain can’t handle it all at once, and the brain just can’t see the whole ‘big picture’.

No matter what anyone ever says, it’s most likely that it can be contradicted, because anything monistic is incomplete, or seporate/alone.

Faust, you’ve clarified a bit to your opinion about what I said earlier, and I am not in critic of you or N, either. I was just making a statement about monisticness being seporateness and incompleteness, a finite sort of thing. And I clarified farther. (hopefully.)

Yeah, Dan~ - it just gave me an opportunity to blather on for a bit longer. “Dog” is a monistic concept - except that it’s not. We are free to travel in both directions along the avenue of abstraction. Because we’re wicked smaht.

Lols. :laughing:

And ya know what, every time someone asks: “What is the meaning of life?”, they are actually just saying: “I am finite, mortal, incomplete.” etc. That’s always how it is when their ‘soul’ craves some one, devine or special principal, emotion, realization, etc.

And the sensation of incompleteness is just an opinion.

The perspective of the universe and one tiny part being seporate, the perspective of that bit being a ‘piece’ of the whole, is a method of view.

Whether healthy or unhealthy, it’s still part of this incredibly big cosmos, and energy is rather invincible. But they will feel mortal, if they loose their perception of themself and their friends somehow.

Like I’ve said in other places, knowledge is social application data added to reality perception-reflection.

They look at how one thing relates to another. Relation is social. At the root, their heart and brain both say: “I want to know how I can socially get along with this world of mine.” And then, after comparing one memory to another, patterns begin to get predicted. In turn, prediction leads to ‘safety’ and ‘control’/‘compensation’. He can predict when and where she wants to meet him, and bang, natural-selection’s success.

As life ‘progressed’
(though progress and decay are also dualistic opinions about one thing which is change, which is also a dualistic opinion between present and passed)
Life gained very complex means to reproduction.
The body made more bodies.
The body made more cells inside itself too.
So, living alone and mating are both different kinds of ‘reproduction’.

This production did get so complex that it could begin to multitask. Its versatility eventually led to it being used, potentially, for things other than objective reproduction. So then came more complex forms of awareness.

Even knowledge is a form of reproduction. It is internally bred by stimulation, and also, can be transmitted to other bodies.

On the other hand man has always sought for the ‘formula of everything’ and much progress has been made as a sideeffect of this search. Saying that one cannot reduce the infinite is a reduction in itself - one canot do this, one cannot do that - it is almost as if a clergyman speaks. Reducing, defining existence according to one’s own will, simpyfing, makig chaos into law - that is what philosophy aims at. That hardly any of these models are ever met with enthousiasm is no doubt understandable from a viewpoint of preservation of the status quo, but that is not a valid argument against it. Neither is ‘One cannot do this!’ when it has just been done.

Jakob says:

It seems to me that truth, in the way that you use it is still a construct. I would agree that the universe is processual; the constant coming into being and returning. If this is an accurate description of reality, then it follows that no experience is ever really complete, it is in constant evolution. In this, even awareness is an evolving process, and so to, truth. One may choose to “freeze frame” a point and say truth, and we do this in order to put the process into language, but it remains a construct nonetheless. This was my point in saying you are truth. a constantly evolving perspective.

TRUTH

I’ll assume that the definition of “good” in this sentence is metaphysical. So really, it could be stated “The question is not ‘what is Good for me?’, but ‘what is good for me?’”

So, does perspectivism use the pragmatic definition of truth? And how does perspectivism disallow morality?

Well, zeus, “good” is at least moral, and at least tantamount to metaphysical. It is possible to construct a morality with no metaphysical element. In the history of philosophy, it hasn’t been a very popular activity, however.

I would like to avoid the word “pragmatic” unless it’s used only in the everyday sense, with no real connection to the philosophical meaning, which a perspectivist usage may have a tangent with, however. Truth is more or less satisfied by the duck test - but most importantly is not epistemic at all, but psychological. Certainty is a feeling we have about “facts”. That’s about as close to truth as I want to get here.

Perspectivists don’t generally generalise their principles. It’s difficult to construct a moral system if you don’t care who follows it, besides yourself. Perspectivism allows for, and requires, an “inner” moral code, which may be, in whole or in part, shared with some others, but not with all others, even as a goal, even potentially. Think of this in terms of it being a precursor to much existentialist “moral” thinking.

So, there is a sort of morality associated with perpectivism, but I don’t think that most people would accept this as a truly moral system when they find it. The perspectivist wants to win, but not necessarily in a way that can be justified with the usual conceptions of fairness, the good, the right, justice - the usual vocabulary of morality as we have come to learn it.