Yesterday a man(suspected suicide bomber) was shot dead at Stockwell underground st. in South London. The gentle man was shot 5 times and pronounced dead at the scene, he was of Brazilian origin and “nothing” to do with any of the bomb attacks that have been targeted at London City.
A few quotes made by the Metropolitan Police.
This is beyond Justifcation.
There is no justification for any form of violence.
Consider: The police act (mistakenly). A tragedy.
The police fail to act (mistakenly). A tragedy.
As long as violence is met with violence, this scenario can and will be repeated. Charged with the responsibility of making split second decisions, the police will make mistakes. Does this satisfy the victim or his family and friends? Of course not.
Had the victim in this been carrying a backpack full of explosives, the police would have been hailed as heros.
Put yourself in their position. You have three seconds or less to make a decision. Will you always be 100% right?
We charge our law enforcement people with impossible expectations. We must all bear the responsibilty of violence whether it is ‘right[’ (stopping a suicide bomber) or ‘wrong’ (the killing of an innocent bystander) This isn’t a ‘police problem’, it is OUR problem.
JT
The fault lies with the people that freak the poor cops out. A cop is just some guy trying to do a job.
This appears to be a tragic situation.
But, without the all the facts, I will err on the side of the police.
I’m considered very ‘left’ (I think I know what that means?) when it comes to police over reacting – but not in this case.
Anyone who runs from the police in a time when they’re are hunting down bombers, is fair game.
This is NOT a tragedy. This is extreme stupidity on the part of the idiot running away. I would say exactly the same if it was my brother who was shot.
[size=134]You run, you get shot. [/size]
You also have to remember that the police were exceptionally brave for following the potential bomber onto the train where he could have blow them all up. They didn’t have to do that.
By the time the cop caught up with the suspected bomber, it was a ‘him or me’ choice. There’s only one decision.
PS: The British police would have to be the most restrained and fair police force you could hope to get – while still being effective. The policeman who made the decision to kill a potential bomber before he could ignite his cargo, deserves commendation.
The officer will be judged.
The guy didn’t even have a back pack people. Maybe he was running because he thought he was going to miss his train, he tripped and fell, an army of men jumped on top of him and loaded 5 shots into his head. The police wore plain clothes so how would he be running from them. This is horrendous. It’s a case of WAG THE DOG and all of you are buying into it. Shame on you, you call yourselves philosophers but can’t even think for yourselves, you all seem to believe what you’re told.
Fuck!
A
You don’t need a backpack to carry a weapon. And saying that maybe he was running to catch the train is a horrible argument. Maybe he was running away from the police because he was a criminal (although he actually wasn’t). From what I understand of the scenario, terrorist attacks have just occurred, the police are on high alert, they tell someone to stop but the person actually starts running away from the police. You do not run away from the police. What are the police supposed to do?
Anyways, if we don’t believe the news story as it’s told, then what do we believe about what occurred in London? Are you saying we should, on a braoder view, simply deny everything? If so, I think you’re being incredibly nit-picky as people are just discussing the story.
Don’t be a fool.
The whole thing could be a farce and you’re saying I should believe what I’m told? Hmmm great way to make my way in the world. Don’t question anything simply believe what ‘they’ are telling us. May I suggest then that you give up philosophising, seems it’s a bit of a waste of time. It’s not the cops, they’re just doing their jobs. It’s the bloody intelligence that gets the cops to go for that guy. Either they are really stupid or they are creating a diversion. Wait, the story is not over yet, everything will be revealed. In the meantime, use your feelings. When I heard this guy was shot, I felt with every fibre of my being that something was wrong. Trust your instincts and think for yourself. Oh wait…they don’t want you to think for yourself, they want you to fuel their machines. If you buy into their terror stories, they can control you. You’re controlled anyway. You need that new ipod - why? Because they’ve said your life will be nothing without it. You need that new car, those new trainers, that new pair of jeans…consume…go on you must have it. You don’t know who you are and what you want, you need someone to tell you how to live, what to eat, what to wear… You carry on, I’m not convinced.
A
No, I never said YOU should believe what they say. But you don’t need to tell me what to believe. Tell me, what reason do you have for not believing the story? As far as I can see, the only reason you don’t belive the story is because you can. If you say that I’m a fool for believing the story, could I not simply call you a fool for not believing the story? I can question whether the story is true all day long, but how am I supposed to ever reach the answer? The only way for me to know is if I was right there in London and a witness, THAT’S THE ONLY WAY.
Anyway, no one was talking about whether the story was true. They were discussing the incident under the presumption that it was true, the same way that I presume that the Earth is round, without ever having actually measured it, but simply going by what textbooks say. Maybe I’m wrong, but I could care less.
And what kind of philosopher are YOU to be telling me to stop philosophizing?
Use my feelings? It’s a NEWS REPORT. If I’m not even 100% sure of what went on, what good are my feelings going to do? My feelings aren’t going to tell me whether the incident was true or not.
I think you have the wrong idea about how ontologically committed we are to the story. If a breaking story reports that the incident in London was misconstrued, and in truth the police didn’t actually kill the Brazilian guy but just hurt him, no one’s going to be devastated that they were wrong about the incident. They’re not going to lock themselves up in their basement and repeatedly deny that the police didn’t kill the guy. All we have to go by are these news reports.
And you have to be kidding me with this “you can’t let them win” plea. I applaud your attempt at trying to figure out what kind of person I am, but unfortunately you were completely wrong. If you please, you can try again.
A,
It’s sweltering hot. The Guy was wearing a winter coat. I played with explosive materials in the military. I could ‘hide’ enough semtex inside a coat to take out everything within 50 meters. The police know that.
I’m not suggesting that it couldn’t be a put up, but to automatically assign blame to the police is a bit over the top.
What is abundantly clear is that no one in the public can, or will know what happened or why it happened. If your intuition says conspiracy, then so be it. But to dismiss all other plausable explanations is a bit heavy, perhaps?
JT
JT,
It certainly wasn’t sweltering hot. It was raining.
I’m not dismissing all ‘other’ plausible explanations. I’m saying that this explanation is crap.
You people are reading into my words and not reading my words.
A
Sweltering hot in England might not mean much to a guy from Brazil. I have spent my life in the South Eastern United States, although I did visit London in June, once. I wore a windbreaker then.
My question is why did they kill him, if they believed him to be a terrorist isn’t he infinately more valuable alive? What threatening action did he commit to cause himself to be shot, considering the fact that he wasn’t a terrorist? Anyone know exactly what it was he did to get shot?
"Asked if the instructions were to shoot to kill if police believed a suspect was a suicide bomber, he said: “Correct. They have to be that.†"
the cops were doing their job…
-Imp
The latest their saying is that they found his visa had run out and that he probably ran because of that?
The bottom line LA is you dont run from the police when the city is on high alert and 4 bombers are lose.
To run to a train station and not a pub or shop is double lunacy.
The guy was the one who made mistake after mistake and the cops had a split second to think about what you have been thinking about for days.
It very unfair to expect police to be supermen and know all the facts and have the calm considered composure when they actually thought that they could be blown to pieces any moment.
What shits me is the news coverage is only rarely saying that he ran from the police. Most of them are say an “innocent man was shot by police by mistake… the parents are grieving… he was a nice man… his parents are considering suing”
Gate, they have a policy of shooting bombers in the head seveal time to stop them from setting off any bombs they have on their body.
As you know, these people are not criminals who want to avoid death (by surrendering) they often wait until people hudle around them, then explode.
Of course the cops were doing their job Imp. The cops only do their jobs. Whatever is going on, it’s not the cops who are the culprits.
A
up the blame game chain…
not the cops, no, not them…
sir ian? no, he is a hack for blair who is a slave to bush…
it must be bush’s fault…
or do you want to see the situation for what it was? a suspicious looking suspect ran and the police did their job.
-Imp
GCT,
That’s the point. You don’t know the circumstances and neither does anyone else that wasn’t directly involved. You can accept their explanation or not, but you still won’t ‘know’ anything. The media, the government press releases all carry their own agenda, and the truth may not be part of that agenda. To rely on either source as a way of knowing anything is foolhardy at best. The illusion that we can ever know the ‘truth’ of anything not directly experienced is just that - an illusion.
JT
There is no meaning beyond whatever meaning an accident carries with it.
Again you make wild assumptions. You’re not listening Imp. You’re projecting.
A