Moral;
Deal!
(oh…and I hold a separation between belief and faith anyway…it’s a long story…and a really long thread around here as well somewhere)
Mad;
SHHH! ![]()
Moral;
Deal!
(oh…and I hold a separation between belief and faith anyway…it’s a long story…and a really long thread around here as well somewhere)
Mad;
SHHH! ![]()
So if I hear a “Christian” say, “the Lord has touched my heart”, am I free to interpret that anyway I wish? If I am, then wouldn’t I be exposing myself to the possibility of a misinterpretation? Do Christians want their figurative language to be misinterpreted? If so, then they’re doing a good job. If not, then why don’t they offer secular translations to those of us who desire one?
Omar, when you say “gift from God”, what do you really mean? Or what is the secular translation of "gift from God?
Does anyone ever notice that Christians use a bunch of figurative language?
Yes. Isn’t it difficult to describe something literally when it isn’t tangible and doesn’t physically exist? Personally, I believe it’s difficult, which is why none of this figurative language is generally explained and most people respond with something such as: “You know what it means!!”
In this type of response, I suppose the respondent is:
A.) Angry, because he/she cannot actually explain what the phrases’ definitions are.
B.) Assuming that something intangible, such as a spirit, should be universally comprehended.
[size=150]OR, most likely,[/size]
C.) Trying to attribute some sort of special meaning to your questioning of their definitions.For one reason or another, people generally fail to provide responses other than ‘Ad Hominem’ constructs or mind-reading condescensions. To suppose that you are patronizing a religion on the flimsy grounds that you are asking for definitions of strongly metaphorical/figurative/idiomatic language is very delusional. So, since most people on this board have fantasized some sort of “special motive” that you have in asking these questions, I’m going to voluntarily end that cycle and respond in a civilized demeanor. (Most of the condescensions weren’t in this particular thread, but nevertheless, over-analyzing and inventing “special motives” for asking questions is detrimental to philosophical/logical discussions, so… there’s no point for inventing fantastic motives, ILP users; just answer the questions and leave the asker be.)
They’ll say things like “it’s all in the hands of God”, “the Lord has touched my heart”, “I have a personal relationship with Jesus” or “God is on your side”. Phrases such as these must have a meaning that the secular world could understand.
This is just people fantasizing God’s existence/presence in hopes of achieving something or maintaining their security in death. Here are my attempted translations:
[b]#1: “It’s all in the hands of God.”
T1: This is implying that “God”, the fantasized being, has influenced over a situation/event/outcome.#2: “The Lord has touched my heart.”
T2: No idea.#3: “I have a personal relationship with Jesus.”
T3: The person who says this is fantasizing Jesus’s presence and, of course, fantasizing Jesus’s ability to “hear” his/her words after going into “prayer mode”, I suppose.#4: “God is on your side.”
T4: Obviously, this suggests that “God”, the fantasized being, is assisting and/or protecting you in some sort of endeavor that you are making.[/b]If Christians want so much to spread their faith, then why use language that is so figurative when there must be an acceptable translation for the secular world. If I wanted to spread my belief in something, I most certainly wouldn’t attempt to do it using figurative language. I’d translate everything I said into words that the lay person would understand.
But figurative language becomes more powerful when spooky-witchcraft (he has healed the blind!), horny-boogermen (L.U.C.I.F.E.R.), and pseudo-voodoo (10 plagues of Exodus; gotta love it; modern horror makes better fiction, though) is involved. Before comprehending why they use figuratively/metaphorical/idiomatic language, you have to look at how credible their tools are:
1: A fictional series containing many seasons and 2 sagas
2: A faith-based belief system (e.g. for spreading by mouth) <— It should be noted that this is a normative component of deity-based religions.
3: Role models communicating “in tongues”, typically making creepy grunt sounds in between sentences (e.g. preachers)
[size=150]AND[/size]
4: Hear-Say testimonies which have no physical/tangible evidenceAllow me to proceed…
Maybe someone knows of a Christianity to English translation website.
None of it is literal and God isn’t tangible.
Christianity is based on fantasy, because they are fantasizing God’s presence while praying, fantasizing God’s “love” and/or “justice”, and most crucial of all, they’re fantasizing God’s existence.
It’s equivalent to watching a movie. So, if there’s any possibility of you relating and comprehending religion at all, it would be through the following:
Think of how it feels to watch an emotionally compelling, but fictional, movie. While doing so, your brain must temporarily assume that the events occurring on-screen are truly happening. In doing this, your mind is fantasizing the existence of the characters, their personal scenarios, the events, and the plot. If you are capable of relating to religion, then that’s the only way that I know how to explain it to you.
Kind Regards,
~~Moral JeffEDIT:: There was something that I failed to mention… and something that I failed to put into quotations… a simple edit; nothing was removed.
Moral Jeff,
Thanks for spelling it out clearly like that. What you said is for the most part precisely what I suspected. The analogy of the movie seems to be right on the mark.
felix dakat:Mutcer
According to contemporary linguistics, metaphor is a basic mechanism of the mind. Metaphors allow us to use what we know about our physical and social experience to provide understanding of other subjects. Metaphors structure our most basic understandings of our experience. They can shape our perceptions and actions without our even noticing them. So by using metaphors, Christians aren’t doing anything with language that other people aren’t doing. A relevant book to this point is “Metaphors We Live By” by Lakoff and Johnson.
So if I hear a “Christian” say, “the Lord has touched my heart”, am I free to interpret that anyway I wish? If I am, then wouldn’t I be exposing myself to the possibility of a misinterpretation? Do Christians want their figurative language to be misinterpreted? If so, then they’re doing a good job. If not, then why don’t they offer secular translations to those of us who desire one?
I think your smart enough to figure it out. Whether you do or not will be a function of your interest. People who are interested in a subculture usually have no problem learning it’s jargon. So if you were interested in hip hop you would pick up and learn the jargon…no sweat. Or if you were into hacking you would learn hacking terms. It’s far more complex than the Christian jargon. Guys will learn to speak a foreign language just to pick up girls. If God is real it would behoove an English speaker to learn Chinese if that’s what it took to communicate with Him.
Mutcer:
felix dakat:Mutcer
According to contemporary linguistics, metaphor is a basic mechanism of the mind. Metaphors allow us to use what we know about our physical and social experience to provide understanding of other subjects. Metaphors structure our most basic understandings of our experience. They can shape our perceptions and actions without our even noticing them. So by using metaphors, Christians aren’t doing anything with language that other people aren’t doing. A relevant book to this point is “Metaphors We Live By” by Lakoff and Johnson.
So if I hear a “Christian” say, “the Lord has touched my heart”, am I free to interpret that anyway I wish? If I am, then wouldn’t I be exposing myself to the possibility of a misinterpretation? Do Christians want their figurative language to be misinterpreted? If so, then they’re doing a good job. If not, then why don’t they offer secular translations to those of us who desire one?
I think your smart enough to figure it out. Whether you do or not will be a function of your interest. People who are interested in a subculture usually have no problem learning it’s jargon. So if you were interested in hip hop you would pick up and learn the jargon…no sweat. Or if you were into hacking you would learn hacking terms. It’s far more complex than the Christian jargon. Guys will learn to speak a foreign language just to pick up girls. If God is real it would behoove an English speaker to learn Chinese if that’s what it took to communicate with Him.
It’s clear to me it’s jargon. But why do Christians engage in hypocritical behavior? They want to spread their faith using their jargon, but aren’t willing (or perhaps aren’t able) to translate it into secular terms. It’s almost as if it’s some kind of deep dark secret of theirs. What they don’t seem to be aware of is actions speak louder than words. So how can I take a Christian seriously if he/she isn’t willing or able to translate figurative language into secular terms but tells me that their faith is the way?
Because you aren’t a moron, regardless what you may attempt to have me believe.
Because you aren’t a moron, regardless what you may attempt to have me believe.
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There have been some useless questions being raised here lately, for sure… ![]()