Trump and Hispanic Polls

[The_Golden_Turd]

I’m a bit stumped by this graphic, which I got from here:

washingtonpost.com/news/the … -rhetoric/

I’m not overly enthusiastic about Trump, just very Anti-Hillary, I go on Google and search Trump vs Hillary Polls under the News option, and this pops up, so I do take from a variety of sources., both parties.

This graphic gives considerable insight… the people most opposed to the wall appears to be illegal immigrants who are the mist threatened by it, suggests native born Latinos aren’t that particularly worried, any more than their usual voting preferences. Given this election comes down to battle ground states, this matters a lot in Florida.

Do pollsters ask if the people they are polling are even US Citizens who can vote? Only time I ever was polled was as a kid on a landline, they seem very good at avoiding me in my adult life. I don’t actually know anyone who has been polled, so can’t ask this question. Usually polls explain their process, but found no mention of this.

I have little doubt Trump can get a wall up, and put a border crossing tariff on the border to force Mexicans to pay for the wall… Mexico will undoubtedly follow suit, but there is far less need to travel south than north. It doesn’t negatively effect more US citizens, Latinos or not, unless your a business deeply dependent on illegal workers, or are drug dealers/users scared your about to lose your supply. Realistically, most Hispanics in the US currently who just stay legally clean otherwise once the wall goes up won’t get deported either, I can’t imagine the number getting over 30-40%, and that’s from getting arrested for other things. Think most will slide through from a amnesty bill, and many more will immigrate through more flexible legal immigration allowances, which I think few oppose as long as we control the process, and not just anyone illegally crossing a border. If they are here legally, then they pay taxes, have bank accounts, contribute… have a clear path to residency and even citizenship. A wall likewise completely messes up many gang and drug cartels preferred methods of transport. Will not illuminate drugs… guys like Mr. Reasonable will get stinking rich as a result, selling home brewed crap, but it will go a significant ways to stopping the drug wars in Mexico, a lot of gang violence in the US, and stop the health epidemic that is killing so many of our youth. It is a all round very positive idea.

Unless if course, you place your whole idenity on being “Latino”… which I find bizarre. I know during the early 20th century this was common, my town still has Greek, Polish, and Serbian cultural centers/halls. Churches still associate with it, we got Ethnic food… but beyond that, total assimilation. We could go to war with either of those nations, entrust our most too secret portfolios on those nations in those halls, and I doubt anyone would turn the info over to the enemy, they are fully Americanized. I doubt Latinos are any different, unless their politics literally revolve around race. In which case, I say Fuck off and die. Honestly, anyone who bases their political outlook only on race, be it white, black or Asian, and your not first generation with very strong links to the home country, just fuck off and die… you Completely failed in being raised as a American. We ate supposed to be a mutual republic of ideas and common interest, not a ignorant mob of races undermining one another on the basis of heritage. If you don’t get this about America, then leave.

I think most Latinos who are native born here get this. Largely would agree with the sentiment. I don’t think someone born Belize has a inherent right to vote in US elections merely by shoeing up through the back door without asking. Polls asking Spanish speaking Latinos,given the massive difference in poll numbers, should definitely ask if they can legally vote in federal elections, and only count those who can legally vote in the polls. It is obvious they don’t want reported, many walked a very long distance to get here, and are offended that everyone is scrutinizing them… that is actually a good thing… people like that are the very ones we more than likely will keep… the ones who feel they are willing to contribute, haven’t done anything wrong other than illegally migrate. We aren’t trying to deport the guts outside of home depot or in the fields, trying to work… we want the gangs and drugs and crime to go away, and get those others legally registered once the wall is up. The willingness to be polled is a good sign you will participate in a democracy, bad sign however if your being further dishonest in skewing the results, and according to that graph, it certainly looks like it is skewed. Most voting Hispanics, after all, can speak English. If I migrated to south America, I would certainly try hard to learn Spanish or Portuguese (Dutch or French is need be). You adopt the language of your host country.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Looks like foreigners and migrant workers are going to decide the outcome of this election. The new majority concerning changing racial, ethnic, and cultural demographics is going to radically alter American democracy forever. The old majority is becoming the new minority. Also, Hillary Clinton promising higher wages, free education, and so on with former Bernie Sanders voters is going to knock out Trump very likely.

It’s not looking great for Donald Trump where the vampire succubus known as Clinton might just win.

Either way it doesn’t matter as the United States economy is hanging over a cliff and nothing is going to reverse that.

More bread and circuses until the inevitable happens…

[Mr_Reasonable]

The economy is hanging over a cliff?

[The_Golden_Turd]

Yes, several parts of the US are back into recession. By default, it isn’t a healthy economic situation. Our chief trading partners are in economic turmoil. A lot of uncertainty sits with the next president.

I don’t play the money market, but I certainly see more international news than you do Smears. It isn’t looking good. Largely self inflicted, due to ideology.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

@Mr Reasonable

The economy is hanging over a cliff?

Yes, but individuals like yourself with a lot of money wouldn’t know because it doesn’t affect you either way.

Not yet anyways…

[omar]

Hello Mr. Ferguson

This graphic gives considerable insight… the people most opposed to the wall appears to be illegal immigrants who are the mist threatened by it, suggests native born Latinos aren’t that particularly worried, any more than their usual voting preferences. Given this election comes down to battle ground states, this matters a lot in Florida.

The Wall is part of a larger policy that Mr. Trump intends to support, including the deportation of millions of illegal immigrants, along, if he could, every american citizen born to them (“anchor” babies). The Latinos that live near the border do favor (a majority) the Wall, however they are also a lot more sympathetic to the desperation of those that risk their lives to cross the border in search of a better future. They offer some of them water and food when they come near their property for example. That nuance is an example of the complexity of the issue and why Mr. Trump’s blanket statements reflect a lack of judgment, heart, and moral depth. I believe that in general it is understandable to feel pity even for the person that breaks the law out of necessity. Though I believe in the rule of law I am moved by depictions of bodies festering under the heat of the desert or washed on an European shore. I believe that conservatives who believe in Jesus, should be guided by “agape”.

I have little doubt Trump can get a wall up, and put a border crossing tariff on the border to force Mexicans to pay for the wall… Mexico will undoubtedly follow suit, but there is far less need to travel south than north. It doesn’t negatively effect more US citizens, Latinos or not, unless your a business deeply dependent on illegal workers, or are drug dealers/users scared your about to lose your supply.

Mexico will not follow suit. I think that we will get into a tit-for-tat game where they will impose higher tariff on our products which will hurt american business and American consumers, and all for a wall that will not make a damn bit of difference. There are hundreds of ways to defeat a wall…just ask Israel. The Trumpism that he can get another country to go against its own self interest is laughable.

Unless if course, you place your whole idenity on being “Latino”… which I find bizarre. I know during the early 20th century this was common, my town still has Greek, Polish, and Serbian cultural centers/halls. Churches still associate with it, we got Ethnic food… but beyond that, total assimilation. We could go to war with either of those nations, entrust our most too secret portfolios on those nations in those halls, and I doubt anyone would turn the info over to the enemy, they are fully Americanized. I doubt Latinos are any different, unless their politics literally revolve around race. In which case, I say Fuck off and die.

The American product is a highly desirable commodity. People want to be assimilated but whether they are allowed to that is a different issue. In America people are obsessed whatever sets us apart, and unfortunately ethnicity is just one of those things. What ends up happening is that once one is rejected, reminded of their ethnic rung in the pecking order, they reaffirm their ethnicity as their source of strength rather than the source of the weakness. You see this too in the african-american community.

We ate supposed to be a mutual republic of ideas and common interest, not a ignorant mob of races undermining one another on the basis of heritage. If you don’t get this about America, then leave.

What “we are” on paper is not necessarily what we are in practice. We wrote that “all men are created equal” even while in practice some men were in bondage. You put up a high ideal, but research your history bro. America is a journey and we’re not out of the woods yet. Keeping it a 100.

[The_Golden_Turd]

I don’t have to ask Israel about their walls, I can simply look at them. It isn’t hypothetical, they are real, and have helped both Israel and Egypt stabilize the Gaza threat into something manageable. The defence is still stronger that the offence in the current tactical synthesis, and it uis much easier to adopt known solution to countering tunnling than it is to give up and embrace a liberal suicide of a state.

And Trump lacks the authority to deport US citizens, it is a non-issue. Even a fully Republican house and Senate, and a fully Republican supreme court, could rationalize how you can rectoactively strip a person of their citizenship for deportation, so that is dead end fear mongering on your part.

I really doubt Trump could deport all the aliens, or even want to. Once the wall goes up, a big section of his party has already over the years come out to support a part to legalization for a big chunk of the remainder.

And it isn’t Hispanics only giving water, but whites too. Your artificially inserting race here by implying whites don’t give a damn. Nobody wants these people dying of dehydration. We also don’t want armed gangs assaulting our ranches either in Pancho Villa styled raids.

This wall is happening, must happen if the US is to claim a moral voice again. Too many crimes and exploitation have occurred from the sour logic for not fortifying the border. It is in both Mexico’s and the US interest to do so.

No drug cartels (or at least substantially reduced) allows the Mexican economy to focus more on internal investment in property and building a middle class with all those engineers they have unemployed. It allows banking systems to develop, police forces aren’t going to be heavily bribed and manipulated by the cartels as much. It is a chance for them to grow as a society. I have no doubt Mexico will do something crazy like tariffs and whatsnot… but there is a 100% certainty that wall is being built if Trump gets in, and it increasingly looks like he will. The old excuses to condone this drug war I two countries, to allow the violence, to morally bankrupt our southern neighbor, to exploit millions of illegal workers is going to end. It is the end to this horrifying era of bullshit. Too many have died on either side, THAT FUCKING WALL IS GOING UP! Period. It will happen, and Hillary and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi chasing themselves around in a room cross eyed, battering one another with foam bats while proclaiming “A Ten Foot Wall Means A 11 Foot Ladder” won’t change a damn thing. It is finishing. The cartel war will end. Democrats have list their voice in the matter long ago. They have completely destroyed those poor people for cheap, slave priced labor. It us over. You can pretend this was a article in The Atlantic and take it equally to heart. US doesn’t stand anymore for the cheapening of life for such petty gains. It is over, finished… wall is being built. Move on to the next liberal hysteria. Save the dolphins or some shit. Care more for a dolphin than a Mexican sadly in the Democratic party. The option to abuse and kill other humans through bad ideological arguments is being yanked from the left form now on.

[omar]

Hello Mr. Ferguson

I don’t have to ask Israel about their walls, I can simply look at them. It isn’t hypothetical, they are real, and have helped both Israel and Egypt stabilize the Gaza threat into something manageable. The defence is still stronger that the offence in the current tactical synthesis, and it uis much easier to adopt known solution to countering tunnling than it is to give up and embrace a liberal suicide of a state.

Their walls, like all walls, can be defeated, and not just through tunneling. The effectiveness of their wall will be harder to achieve in a much larger area and with a divided support for manning and maintaining it. But even if all those are met, it does account for air travel, where someone simply overstays their visit. Building the wall will simply mean an increase in this area of illegal immigration.

And Trump lacks the authority to deport US citizens, it is a non-issue. Even a fully Republican house and Senate, and a fully Republican supreme court, could rationalize how you can rectoactively strip a person of their citizenship for deportation, so that is dead end fear mongering on your part.

As I said, if he could. Look at what happened in the Dominican Republic (fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the- … ss-people/) demonstrates that this shit IS possible even in a democracy so you need to be aware of that. Unlikely? Perhaps, but certainly possible and the seriousness of such a possibility means that you have to address it when the GOP nominee has entertained as many wacko ideas as he has.

I really doubt Trump could deport all the aliens, or even want to. Once the wall goes up, a big section of his party has already over the years come out to support a part to legalization for a big chunk of the remainder.

k a negotiator, Tump has presented a number that I probably not the minimum he would be willing to accept in a final deal, but that is still so far to the right of a moderate country that his eventual concessions would still be to the right of who America has been as a nation, which is troublesome.

And it isn’t Hispanics only giving water, but whites too. Your artificially inserting race here by implying whites don’t give a damn. Nobody wants these people dying of dehydration. We also don’t want armed gangs assaulting our ranches either in Pancho Villa styled raids.

I’m sure that there are many white people who feel compassion, but I am wondering if they understand the effects of building a wall. Do you think that a woman desperate enough to risk crossing a desert with her children will be deterred by a wall? If her calculation is that she is better off risking death than to stay in Mexico then I have to wonder if she will not try to get in some other way at some other price, opening a market that can be exploited on the backs of the destitute.

This wall is happening, must happen if the US is to claim a moral voice again. Too many crimes and exploitation have occurred from the sour logic for not fortifying the border. It is in both Mexico’s and the US interest to do so.

Alas they would lose their moral voice. And it ONLY in the interest of the US, not Mexico. A trade war is what Trump is talking about. When long time conservative economist Ben Stein spoke against Trump on this, well, you have to wonder.

No drug cartels (or at least substantially reduced) allows the Mexican economy to focus more on internal investment in property and building a middle class with all those engineers they have unemployed.

It is an unproven hypothesis that the Trump wall would mean the death of drug cartels. There is no such wall with Colombia and they still managed to thrive. If Mexico is unavailable, I am sure that Canada’s borders will still be open. We have not even talked about drones, like those proposed by Amazon to deliver good, simply flying over the 30 ft. Trump wall.

It allows banking systems to develop

What, in the current situation prevents that from happening?

It is a chance for them to grow as a society

A little bit condescending if you ask me. Have you even been to Mexico?

I have no doubt Mexico will do something crazy like tariffs and whatsnot… but there is a 100% certainty that wall is being built if Trump gets in, and it increasingly looks like he will.

I seriously doubt the wall will be build. IF, and that is a big fucking “if”, Trump can have Mexicans fund the Wall (which is unlikely simply because of the political capital that would be lost in supporting something that will be unpopular in Mexico) that still does not mean that it will be build before Trump, and any politician who supported th Wall, is run out of office. Just as NATO requires heavy US involvement, so too would this wall and I doubt that the House would approve such spending.

They have completely destroyed those poor people for cheap, slave priced labor.

And the American consumer (Republican and Democrats) has reaped the benefits. Oh and then there is this thing called globalization which thrives under Republican philosophy of little or no Government interference.

Care more for a dolphin than a Mexican sadly in the Democratic party. The option to abuse and kill other humans through bad ideological arguments is being yanked from the left form now on.

So now building a wall to keep out Mexican risking death across a desert to give their family a better future is actually taking care of them? So this had nothing to do with protecting American workers from Mexicans who come across the border to steal “American” jobs? I guess I missed that part. I guess the wall is meant to protect Mexicans from being exploited, from slavery, from a situation that would be much worse than living in Mexico. Do you know what happens to those that are “saved” from such bleak future?
Whatever bro. I think that you have drank the Kool Aid on this issue. You are talking as if the wall will solve our problems, Mexico’s problems and that, like Obama Care, it will be erected without opposition. Oh wait…

[Uccisore]

It makes a lot of sense when you consider what Telemundo and Univison’s news service is like. If you only speak spanish and so have to depend on these people to get informed about American politics, well, it would be like watching nothing but MSNBC without even the option to change the channel.

[omar]

@Uccisore

It makes a lot of sense when you consider what Telemundo and Univison’s news service is like. If you only speak spanish and so have to depend on these people to get informed about American politics, well, it would be like watching nothing but MSNBC without even the option to change the channel.

Otro trozo de sabiduría americana. Si no es la culpa de Obama entonces es la culpa de Ramos. Tú crees que la comunidad latina que solo habla español no tiene republicanos? El hablar español no te hace un demócrata. Trump como candidato a la presidencia, en vez, si, como se ah visto en el “Never Trump” movimiento.