After last night there is a lot of talk about the end of the GOP party. For all his talk about how people love him, and that he is a “great unifier”, Donald has warned against the great probability of riots if he is denied the nomination after being closer than all remaining candidates to the necessary majority of delegates. What everyone in CNN seems to think is that Trump is an anomaly within the GOP when in fact he is a great representative of the Party and its beliefs that have been evolving to the extreme right ever since Obama was elected.
I have a few friends who have argued with me because they support Trump, as I am sure some here do too. Everything that is socially unacceptable in his rhetoric is buried under the fact that he is honest and speaks his mind, is unattached, and a great business man. But while I applaud his sincerity, I despise what it reveals about Trump the man. This belief that a business man will fix everything forgets how a business man acts. It may seem that the description “thrust to power on the basis that he would break with America’s dysfunctional politics and that, as a self-made billionaire, he knew how to fix problems” seems to apply to Trump, but was said about Berlusconi. The New York Times writer believes that the comparison goes beyond Trump and Berlusconi and extend to the zeitgeist in each country. (wsws.org/en/articles/2008/05/berl-m23.html).
I think that the GOP needs to make peace with who they are. The Tea Party has replaced the Christian Right as the chief political force within the party. They gave the GOP control of the Senate and the House and whether it is Trump or Cruz (the original outsider), the xenophobic message is resonating with the most enthusiastic voters. Denying Trump is to deny the voices that animate the Party. They should stop now since the two choices left (Trump/Cruz) are as bat-shit crazy as the other. There is no point to distinguish between the two. The only difference left to exploit for Cruz is that Trump is a late convert to Conservatism and that amounts to little since many see Trump as better equipped to handle the existential problems that face the nation and the economy.
Pure philosophy here, hangs on your use of the word ‘existential’, as it relates to the reduced, basest common denominator, which attracts those of a like nature. It seems almost to transcend the Great Wall which exist between extremes, the very very rich, and those who are most impoverished. The middle class has become a non-entity, a silent minor-majority, who are in a phenomenological, but not yet in an eidectic suspense. This is smells verily of pure
fascist ideological pre-planning, much the same way, that it was the German Industrialist support , which catapulted Adolf into a phenomenal public figure.
Watch out what you wish for, cause it may come off your hide, on the final countdown.
Look, existentialism regressed the notion that the post modern signals the right direction, and working from a Venn diagram, using Fredian psycho-ecenomics theory, undermining conscious decision making, can only bring a trap. There certainly is a catch in this circus like performance, but then who doesen’t like a good vaudeville act. The nostalgic, pre Cold War sentimentalist , that’s who!
Okay… first off, CNN isn’t the best source of news for insights into the Republican party.
Secondly, the Republican Party, like all political parties must do periodically, is reorganizing itself. You will likely see the democrats do this within the next three presidencies too, if they keep losing in congress.
Your seeing old alluances between subgroups break off and dissapate, and new coalitions emerging. I see no evidence of the evangelical right going bye-bye, and the tea party supplanting them… nor the opposite. I simply see the evangelicals growing more aware of economics and the constitution… these two groups have alot of overlap. Its hardly one or the other.
These moments are a realky great time for democracy… for a brief time, you can see the gears of democracy turning. Everyone is pissed the last 8-16 years, depending on your imperitives, have been a absolute nightmare. US literally us at its breaking point, we will be turned into Argentina soon financially with the debt. Nobody has been listening.
So… now the people who havent been listening are getting thrown down hard.
This is hardly the end, but a revitalization. Its going to come out much stronger, newer. Its going to remake the political map increasingly, due to irs ability to absorb new ideas, new kinds of canidates we traditionally couldn’t push foreward. Challenge ideas taboo.
Hey jerkey
Not quite. I wrote that “The only difference left to exploit for Cruz is that Trump is a late convert to Conservatism and that amounts to little since many see Trump as better equipped to handle the existential problems that face the nation and the economy.” Hence, I was not referring to the essential quality of the group, but to the nature of the problems that face the nation, which in the mind’s of many of Trump (and Cruz) followers, means life of death of our nation, which is why I use “existential problems”.
Hello Mr. Ferguson
Well, after the “Establishment” began to take the possibility of a Trump nomination seriously, I think that every news channel has a similar narrative.
I agree with this. Is the GOP establishment willing to accept that this is the moment? I don’t think that they will. And there is another factor here as well. Demographics are such that the Republican majority is slowly becoming a minority, which means that this is not just another cycle, but something perhaps entirely new under the American sun.
Could be. Christian Right left over Pat Robertson frankly seems to be getting behind Trump (rather than the more religious Cruz) and Kasich ticket.
That’s what Obama sounded like. That is how they all sound like…except there is a process of check and balances that drive each dream into a middle ground…or puddle, depending on who you ask.
The Republican majority isn’t becoming a minority, it’s growing like fire, their membership exploded because of Trump.
And the media narrative, outside of libsnobs, is that Trump represents one of two things:
- Armageddon
- Someone playing the game.
Thing the Libsnob crowd isn’t getting is, everyone supporting Trump is aware of this. Everyone not supporting Trump us aware of this. His rhetoric has some potential for some real bite… everyone thinks he will certainly chop alot of programs, terrorize a lot of establishment players… but at the same time know he will play both sides of the isle, and when the dust settles, we will have a nimble and swift administration, closer to a bipartisan government than we’ve seen in years.
Its why I’m increasingly leaning towards him. Do I want a wall? Yes… but that’s been my position forever, I literally study walls, through history. They can do wonders under the right circumstances, such as on a border. Do I think every Mexican is going back? Not a chance. But it stops more from coming in, and it forces a chance for a great compromise in Congress when the denms see their one hope for a future voting bloc start getting deported (they couldn’t convince Americans to vote for them, so looked over the border for a alternative).
We will get a wall, taxes will get reduced, the medical situation will at least be made constitutionally legal… currently Obamacare us illegal as fuck per The Origination Clause.
I really doubt he can do a lot of the Foreign Policy ideas he has, Russia has very limited cash to fund operations, Syrian Army over stretched, our main Allies, especially Turkey and the Arabs won’t go for it… but he is a international businessman, used to dealing with governments… his initial statements wedge his foot in the door for a very different sale.
I get the showmanship. The bluster isn’t the product you getin the end, but with him, at least we get something. The worst snobs get crucified, and bipartisanship can move forward. We haven’t had that in a generation. We can’t have that under Hillary. Sanders would be so weak as a Socialist it be possible with Haggling, but Hillary impossible. Trump… after he assaults half of Congress with a Sledge Hammer, can negotiate with the rest. You’ll find a lot of Dems who never got paid attention too will suddenly get a hearing.
I hate political parties, but Trump represents to potential of democracy vs tyranny weve gotten under Obama and Reid, moving forward again. I’m hoping in 8 years, to see a lot more bipartisan action, a biproduct of his administration. Under Hillary, things just get worst… she might start wearing a crown and decree via her spectre what her divine rights are to us, expecting all American to kneel on our knees to her. Hope she goes to jail, I’m sick of it. No more.
Do you disagree? Of course if he gets the most votes and the GOP decides at the convention to just pick some other guy instead, people are going to freak the fuck out. That has nothing to do with Trump, it would happen in any election if the delegates or party bosses pulled a stunt like that.
Except that Trump isn’t to the extreme right. Excluding immigration, he’s barely to the right of Hillary. Cruz, Rubio, Santorum, Fiorina, Carson, and Huckabee are all to the right of Trump, just to name people who were running this cycle. One of the things that mystifies the press is why, exactly conservatives and evangelicals are prefering Trump when he disagrees with them about just about everything - more neutral stance on Israel, critical of free trade, says positive things about Planned Parenthood, against the Iraq war, etc.
“How a businessman acts” sounds ominous until you realize that in order to be fair you must compare it to “how a politician acts”. Then a businessman doesn’t seem too bad at all, if you ask me.
Then why is Rubio gone and Cruz losing? They’re the Tea Party candidates.
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Only if the only issue you give a shit about is immigration. If you care about foreign policy, the economy, social security, taxation, abortion, healthcare, and probably some other stuff I’m not thinking of right now, then they are plenty different.
True. All other candidates are more right leaning than the Trump. The only difference that they do not say it openly in order to seem to be acceptable to the more voters.
Trump would not do anything about these controversial issues to the extent of even 1/10th of what he is saying now. All this is merely an election drama, but unfortunately, his supporters are unable to understand this.
with love,
sanjay
Not all. Really just the ones I said. Kasich isn;'t to the right of Trump, neither is Christie. You could argue it either way with Rand Paul.
Of course they say it openly, that’s how I know it; I’m not a wizard. I am looking at the stances on issues they publicly take, and the stances of Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina and etc. are to the right of Trump. Everybody knows this. They are not hiding it. Trump isn’t a far-right conservative like some of those I listed.
Cruz and Rubio don’t say openly that they are to the right of Trump? Are you actually following this election?
Ucci, if you are performing on the stage, and want to be appreciated by the audience also, you must be an expert in dialogue delivery. It matters more that how you are saying than what you are saying. You have to be dramatic and appealing in your performance. That is why a good leader has to be good orrator also. And, that is Trump’s forte.
Like, others may also be against illegal Maxicans, but nobody proposed for making a wall and make Maxico pay for that. Will Trump do either of these thing in reality! No, never. Even his supporters know that but still that strong and effective presentation affects their mind.
Others may be same right leaning or even more, but they do not know how to win voters using their ideology. Trump know that very well.
I do not follow US elections that closely. That is my general understanding about GOP candidates. And, I may be wrong in my assumption in individual cases. You certainly know more than me about the candidates.
With love,
Sanjay
Pffft. Another “Trump’s just like Hitler n stuff” rant.
This angle hasn’t worked yet, so why start thinking it will now?
The moths circle the lighted lantern of politics without knowing or understanding the tsunami coming their way.
grabs bag of popcorn
At this point, I’m starting to wonder if the ‘Trump is just like Hitler’ crowd are closet supporters (of Trump, not Hitler). I mean, it backfires so spectacularly that it seems to help Trump every time its uttered.
It’s interesting that lefties have traditionally supported many of the issues Trump takes sides with but they still seem to hate him. My guess is that because Trump wants to deport illegal immigrants and build a wall between Mexico and the U.S., this overrides any other issues. “Racism” often takes precedence over anything else with lefties.
Let’s face it, the lefties were going to say “He’s a racist! He’s a moron! He’s the worst ever! He’ll ruin the country!” no matter who the GOP put up- they always do. They would have found a way to call Ben Carson racist, I’m sure. That’s part of why Trump is doing so well- he’s the first candidate to make it clear that it’s ok not to give a fuck about the same old criticisms the left always make- they are tired and irrelevant. The most interesting part about this is that all the usual criticisms from the DNC playbook are just slightly more absurd than they would have been if applied to a Ted Cruz or a Rand Paul.
Hello Mr. Ferguson
I disagree. I think that the Republican party has failed to bring any minorities, in fact has excluded some, like latinos and blacks (who take the equivocation about David Duke seriously). By 2044, by some estimates (nytimes.com/2015/06/11/opini … .html?_r=0), non-hispanic whites will be a minority, that is that the “pure” white will be an anomaly since mixed whites will be the norm. I think that the vein that is being tap by Trump is fueled by xenophobia and racial tension and that it is no accident that Mr. Duke is not endorsing Hillary. I think that Trump is bringing young people as well, but so is Bernie with an opposite message with the same character: big claims and promises with little detail or concern for the democratic process in place that has to be navigated, concessions reached, in short the establishment they disdain, to accomplish anything lasting.
I think that McCain and Romney are the ones with this message so this should not be dismissed.
This is what “playing the game” refers to…and even some other republicans know the game as well (maybe not Mr. Carson…). This actually worries some Republicans who want a genuine conservative and not someone playing the game, which is what they accuse the establishment of doing. For those that see him playing the game, from what I have read, they want him for the economic policies he offers, taking on China, bringing jobs back. His brand alone, I think, gives him a leg up because he is being judged on this instead of a political record. Cruz started attacking his so-called conservatism and Trump has tried to sue him. I think that Cruz has backed away from a strategy that could have seriously damaged Trump’s narrative. Will Hillary back away?
Immigrants are not a voting group. Let me explain. If they are illegal, they cannot vote. If they are legal, they still cannot vote. You have to become a citizen (which millions are doing right now for the sole purpose of voting for anyone but Trump. nytimes.com/2016/03/08/us/tr … t-him.html) in order to vote. The Wall is only an improvement on what we already have, so I don’t see anything wrong with that, but Trump is dealing in fantasy if he thinks that a foreign government will pay for such wall. If my dog is going over to your yard to shit it means that you have to clean it instead of me. Why would I want to work against my own interest? The art of the deal? Please…
It’s a completely different game dealing with governments on real state projects in which they have “no-skin” to lose and another dealing with foreign governments on their national interest.
His bully-style has worked on Rubio and Bush and yet hardened the opposition from establishment Republicans. This is the flaw in the Trump game plan that might cost him the WH. When describing what Trump will do many will be reminded about how they feel Obama treated their Party.
Not sure why you are so personally enrage by her, but I think that Hillary and Trump share a lot of qualities.
Ciao Uccisore
I believe that there is no point. There is much more to lose than there is to gain and besides their two ideological horses (Bush, Rubio) have been defeated and Kasich is of no consequence. And no I am not saying that this is Trump’s fault.
True. He is winning those votes though. Maybe many things are seen as tied to that one crucial action of deporting immigrants, building a wall, and closing off our borders to all muslims who “hate us”. But I agree with what you say: There is a thin line between Hillary and Trump, which is why Bernie is still in the game.
The comparison I made was between Berlusconi and Trump. The difference is that Italy is not the leader of the free world and has no nuclear capabilities. Is is as dangerous as Romney makes it sound? No. I think that Trump is sensible to destruction and devastation on an existential level. What Trump lacks, if you ask me, is the necessary lubricant that makes diplomacy possible- the ability to speak in a way that allows your opponent to save face if they collaborate with you. In a business deal the outcome is easy to defend because the numbers are there. It can be quantified. A foreign relations deal is much more about quality. You can get out of a bad deal by legal means, or some renegotiation, but the ME, for example, does not offer such exit clauses. War is a “deal” that is hard to unmake. Obama ran on the promise of closing Guantanamo, ending the Iraq/Afghanistan wars…where are we on that? Not because he lacks the will but he lacks the means. It isn’t easy.
I believe that Romney knows a thing or two about how billionaires behave and his apprehension should give us pause. I think that Trump has a record of going by what is expedient rather than what is principled or moral. He did employ illegal immigrants, at some point and probably employs legal immigrants because they will work for less, taking jobs away from americans because it allows him a greater ROI. Will he work differently if elected? In Italy the promise didn’t work and some in the Berlusconi family have been indicted on tax evasion, which is troublesome.
Rubio was seen as “establishment”. he may have gotten to the establishment with the help of the Tea Party, but he was absorbed, in the eyes of voters, by the institution they seek to punish. He was supposed to be the solution and became part of the problem. Cruz is not doing as badly as we might think. Up to this point Trump has benefited from the diverse field. I would not be surprised if the establishment gets behind Cruz and he begins to get past Trump in some of the remaining states.
We will see just how much the voters care about those things, but as of now, I think that Cruz has delivered a message that sounds Trumpish, meaning that for example he means to abolish the IRS, a bold claim, while offering little as far as details. Either candidate will represent a disruption to the “establishment”. Thus if denying Trump in favor of Cruz a solution for the establishment? I don’t believe so.
Last I heard, Trump is getting support in roughly equal proportion across virtually every demographic likely to vote GOP. So I tend to think that we shouldn’t look for specialized explanations as to why the evangelicals like him, why men like him, why the police like him, why the millitary likes him, and why the wealthy like him. It seems to me that if you aren’t willing to vote DNC, there is a % chance you will like Trump that is constant irrespective of what demographics you fit in to. Or has that changed?
He certainly seems that way. However, I’d point out that the situations in which we see him speak (Debates, political speeches, and his T.V. show) aren’t actually situations in which allowing an opponent to save face through collaboration is of any use or benefit. So it’s possible that the way he’d handle a closed-door meeting with Putin is completely different from the way he handles Marco Rubio in a public debate. But as I’ve said elsewhere, I prefer(ed) basicaly all the GOP candidates to Trump, so I’m certainly no committed fan, and the way he presents himself is one of the things I don’t like.
I would add that when he made those promises, he also lacked the information to know if they were good ideas or not, or how feasible it would be. In terms of plausibility and practical knowledge, his vow to close Guantanamo during the campaign meant little more than you or I vowing it.
No disagreement there.
Yep. I agree with all that too.
Agree there too.
Trump is only even still a thing because A) it’s a two party system, B) the Republican party is right wing, and C) he’s all the Republican party has to offer anyone at this point in US history. And what he basically offers is a glimmer of hope to white conservatives that all is not lost if only we can . . . make America great again (?). Trump supporters don’t even know what they want, they’re just blindly angry at whatever Trump tells them they should be angry about. Chapter 1 in the dictator’s playbook: scapegoating, for dummies.
Ciao Uccisore
No. There are some characteristics that predict support for Trump. I don’t invoke the authority of this piece but just to give you an example of some of the differences in the voters in these primaries (theatlantic.com/politics/arc … ly/471714/). Another thing is that while he is liked he is not carrying the majority of the votes. Those seen as clear opposites, Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich, still drew away a majority combined. Before Romney I thought like you that the GOP would rather vote Trump than accept the possibility of a DNC candidate taking the WH. Now I am not so sure. I am not sure that simply identifying yourself as a conservative will predispose you to see Trump as the better choice. Certainly this is the case among those like Romney, Fiorina, McCain, and I imagine others as well. the fact that the possibility of a brokered convention even exists (and I think that they KNOW how bad it could turn out even if they spin it in a positive light) is a reminder that Trump is not as strong as one would imagine. He has been helped by a splintered field. How will he fare now that Rubio is out? Remember he was nasty with Rubio and so I suspect they will go to Cruz just to stick it to Trump. We will see. Trump might learn from this…