Trump will save you from... Trump?

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

So you conservatives who like Trump, who is not a conservative, or Christians who like Trump, who is an extremely poor model of Christian values, it’s interesting you expect him to save you from global international billionaire business when Trump himself is a… wait for it… I know it’s here somewhere… oh yeah, he’s an international billionaire businessman who benefits from globalism every day.

Not even to mention his “self made man” myth (yeah, the guy inherited tens of millions of dollars from daddy, and despite this went bankrupt and would have lost everything in the early 90s if not for a massive bailout he received), but let’s not even go there.

Do you realize how completely you’ve been duped? You want someone to save you from globalization, I get it. But… Trump? He is a globalist international businessman. How exactly is he going to stop the very engine that powers his own business empire?

Trump uses outsourced labor and manufacturing in Mexico, China, Honduras and Bangladesh. He struck a deal in 2004 to use factories in Asia and South America to make his clothing. Trump slammed Nabisco and Ford for their moving plants to Mexico, but Trump himself owns lots of stock in Nabisco and Ford, an inconvenient fact he forgot to mention I guess. Trump attacked Disney and Apple for using foreign labor and outsourcing while Trump himself was quietly collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in dividend payments on the stock he owns in… Disney and Apple.

Are you getting it yet?

Do you Trump supporters care? Nope. You trust this guy to basically guarantee that he will seriously undermine his own businesses and investments by cutting back on global international business; even IF he could accomplish that, which he can’t really do, and even IF he wanted to, which is a serious long-shot if you look at his past and present business practices, how can you trust a guy who says one thing and does another? Can’t you find someone other than the biggest Trojan horse in modern history to be your spokesperson?

It’s actually insulting that you Trump supporters can’t see you’re being duped. It isn’t even your values of disliking globalization, I get it, that’s fine. We need to fix the present form of globalization, of course. But… you expect Donald Trump to do that for you? Are you f*%!ing kidding me?

He is beholden in debts to many foreign nations and banks around the world, as he continues to expand and open up new business ventures and buy property around the world. What do you think a president of the United States would do with the power of that office, if his personal billions were at stake? Learn to live with a measly $400k salary a year? Not likely.

Oh yeah, he doesn’t like illegal immigrants… Makes you wonder why he used illegal immigrants to build Trump Tower. Again, do you even care? Not one bit.

Look in the mirror and observe your deep, deep brainwashing by this man. He flaunts hypocrisy, lies and contradiction right out in the open and you cheer for him. You expect him to save you from NAFTA and TPP when Trump himself is already so heavily leveraged into this very international trade system that he pretends to dislike. You trust him when he talks about his business skills as he inherited between $40 and $120 million dollars, and still went bankrupt and needed a bailout. He smiles and lies to you. He isn’t self-made. There is no way he is going to choose to dismantle a global economic system that he himself uses for the fundamental operation of his own businesses, even if he could dismantle it which of course he couldn’t, even that is empty rhetoric.

I’m sorry to say, but if you like Trump, you are seriously deep in a black hole of misinformation and wishful thinking. I’m seeing a lot of people falling into this hole, including otherwise intelligent people. I seriously suggest you take another look at what you’re supporting, and why.

2

Without Trump we wouldn’t even be talking about globalism vs. evil nationalism.
It’s actually not about Republicans vs. Democrats. For example, sure, Hillary gets the money and the connections and votes for open borders but she herself is probably far less convinced about the brave new open borders world than a cuck like Paul Ryan.
As the Republican party changes so will the Democrats who will embrace the neo-conservatives who will very likely jump ship.

It’s this argument of “Hah!, Trump isn’t really going to do what he is promoting, that which he brought up against political conventions within the Republican establishment, effectively vote for the candidate who says he is in favour of globalism and who has sold out to globalist businesses.”

Yeah, let’s not vote for the guy who runs with a message against globalism, if you are against globalism.
See, Trump actually has a basic business incentive to keep the property values of his estates safe and that requires a prospering economy and law and order in those places where those estates are located.
International finance does not.

Besides that, it’s not only about Trump. Voting for him is voting against globalism, it already has created that political capital, popularising that political idea to be against globalism. This has already been accomplished. The idea of America First is already part of the consciousness of a large part of the population. It wasn’t there before, it wasn’t thought that way about it, it wasn’t thought of as something which was okay to be in favour of, it wasn’t actually thought about at all.
The potential, the potential for its emotional resonance, was already in place but it wasn’t tapped in that way, not channeled in that way.

3

Exactly. An analysis of the the speech, which I cannot find at the moment, shows that of the campaign promises, ten to be exact, none can possibly effectively be brought upon successful solution, they are merely slippery slope type generalized caveats,
which can, be changed or eliminated without notice.

A commentator named him the perfect dictator, since all of his message is a calculated attempt to defraud.

He lies, backtracks, and his appeal is totally in line with people, whose conviction resides in the very shallow waters of popular primitivism, seeking a magic wand of a fabulous power broker, almost a parent figure who can set everything right. He carefully chooses disturbing subjects, and glosses over them with a wondrous but insubstantial techniques of peddling and sewing social subconscious matters, stirring the boiling caldron for
all it’s worth.

Pitiful, brazen, and downright dishonest.

4

It is simply, utterly, self-evidently asinine to think that Trump should be president. i don’t care if you lost your job to companies overseas, and i don’t care how much you hate Hillary. If you support Trump you are quite simply a fool. Period. Now, i’ll probably get Uccisore here telling me how evil and disingenuous i am for stereotyping and insulting all these hard-suffering, salt-of-the-Earth, brainwashed FOX News kool aid-guzzling jackasses who think he will be good for the country, but you know what? Fuck that nonsense, they deserve it. All the evidence anyone needs to figure out that Trump is probably the most piss-poor presidential candidate in modern history (as if that wasn’t clear from the very start) was right there last week at the Republican National Convention. Hell, it’s right there every week on FOX News - a network that now supports him! Just watch the guy talk. Listen how he shifts his position, not even from day to day, but literally from sentence to sentence in the same speech as he is speaking! His poll numbers (remarkably low as they are) nonetheless reflect retardation on a massive fucking scale. Millions of people have already voted for this man to become president. Total retardation, and the whole world knows it, a majority of the people in this country know it, hell, even most prominent Republicans know it (though the majority endorse him anyway). It’s sad. It’s maddening. And it’s horrific to watch. i can only hope against hope that the GOP gets its comeuppance for following through on this nomination, losing to the wicked witch Hillary and collapsing into shambles. They deserve it. They SO VERY deserve it. Fuck. Them. All. Spineless children with no integrity.

5

That’s not at all true, Bernie Sanders was talking about these issues already, before Hillary hacked the democratic process and forced him out.

If Trump is elected he will happily sign TPP and any other free trade international agreements. He will simply look you in the eye and say, “I had a change of heart folks, I really did, and now I realize this is the right way to go for America, because not having free trade is utterly rediculous, just rediculous, folks”. And then he will sign the bills and no one will say anything, because you’re all little blind sheep eating right out of his hand.

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Double post.

7

Yes, absolutely. This is a calculated ploy on Trump’s part, he is fraudulent through and through. And we all see it, plain as day. But by some magic he covered over the eyes of millions of people (less than we think, though, since he’s also hacking the e-voting machines just like Hillary is) and they are in a stupefied hypnotic trance.

The GOP has been dead for a long time, it just took a while for the decay to sink in enough to where this kind of calculated ruse and sham con man scheme could actually look just a little bit believable.

8

To be honest, I don’t see how reducing globalism will boost the economy…America is pretty much a secret global domination scheme, has military bases on every corner of the earth…It gets what it gets by paying foreign nations a bowl of rice for equipment goods and services…Im not sure if removing those things will boost the economy.

Not saying it’s morally right, just saying I’m not sure of the mathematics of it.

9

I’d say it’s asinine to vote for Hillary.

Why are we even having this discussion, its like a bunch of school kids forced to eat shit and piss, arguing about who’s shit and piss is more tasty.

Do you know on the ballot you don’t have to vote for the two main candidates, there are others you can vote for?

(Of course Hillary will just rig the computers like she did last time, and our corrupt legal system won’t do anything about it, so it really doesn’t matter, the Hillary Dictatorship has already been instated, unless we revolt and impeach her for breaking our laws, democracy and constitution.)

10

Yes, Hillary and Trump are both con artists, and I’m certain both are competing for who can out-hack the other one; not just at the voting booth, but ideologically too, the minds of the people.

For fucks sake, do not support either one, do not vote for either one.

11

It almost seems like they have magical powers, like using magic to get people to endorse and vote for them.

Well, Trump I mean. Hillary just computer hacks the elections, doesn’t need magic.

12

Its strange to me to see all kinds of people awakening to the fact that politicians never literally do what they promised.

Is this news?

To ‘hate on Trump’ because he uses rhetoric … its strange to witness.

Please, Americans, keep Hillary out of office. I know many of you arent informed about Hillary Clintons international work. Please get informed. Stop worrying about the more obvious boo-man Trump and start looking in some dark cracks.

I suppose there is no way to avert the peoples will to elect the most hypocritical murderer available. I just dont want to be feeling like I might have done more.

13

Now that I saw Clintons running mate… Jesus… any of you people really trust this duet with the nuclear codes?

Wake up to the fact of your international responsibility. Please stop discussing these elections so myopically.

14

I trust Trump with those nuclear launch codes even less.

Hillary is good to keep the neoliberal global machine chugging along at status quo. The only danger from her with nukes is small-grade tactical nukes. If we start using those then it’s all over. But with Trump, I sincerely believe he has malicious intentions far beyond what Hillary does, or else they are simply aligned under the surfaces.

Trump is giving the whole ignorant, dumb statements non-politician outsider image a good try, but he is nothing of the sort. He is a master at this, there is an agenda and purpose to what he is doing. We know exactly what we will get with Hillary, not so with Trump.

Of course I will absolutely not vote for either of them. And no, I’m not ignorant about politicians lying. My objections to trump have very little to do with the mere fact that he is a narcissist and compulsive liar.

15

Thats all I care about. That you dont trust Trump with the codes. For the rest I think it is all moot, as no president has ever not been a narcissist. They were better at hiding it.

Trump shocks me on no level as I had none of the illusions about politicians that his opponents seem to have. Hillary has proven to be a reckless warlord type. Even in presidents shadows she has toppled 3 sovereign nations.

With Trump youd at least not vote a full fledged warcriminal into office.

16

True. But here is the simplest version of the reason why I think Trump is even more dangerous:

-Hillary is saying, “Let’s be true to our moral center, to our human being” while she actively works behind the scenes doing the exact opposite.

-Trump is saying, “We have no moral center, we have no human being.”

See the difference? Which terrifies you more?

As Zizek put it, surface images and “manners” are very important. Even though Hillary et al simply use those as false surfaces to lie with, these things still have value. With Trump, not so. These things simply don’t even exist with him. “I don’t want to live in a society where I constantly need to be arguing that it is wrong to torture people. That should be an unspoken agreement that no one questions”. -Zizek

17

All I can say at this point is, those who may vote him into office, can only blame themselves for their shallow near sightedness. It is almost unbelievable, given the claim that the US consists of the most literal, and informedpopulace in the world. Which proves the adage, that yes, who canno learn of the mistakes of history, are condemned to repeat them.

How many times in the history of the world could a mere rhetorician defeat the wisdom of the ages?

18

divide and rule at its finest. Most humans hope somebody will fix the unfixable because everything is soooo rigged. Hilary is the chosen the winner since day 1… trump is a diversion but should he win because the voting machines haven’t been rigged enough, we’ll get much of the same. Both bought by/for walls street.

on the web
Over Half of Americans Now Believe the Voting System Is Rigged (RT)
71% of Americans Think the U.S. Economy Is Rigged (yahoo)

19

Bernie and nationalism, lol. Bernie is a globalist, a social globalist. He’s gonna ‘fix’ the globalist system. Like every other globalist before him improved the globalist system.

So against all odds, all the media which was across the board ridiculing and demonising nationalism and that racist border wall, Trump ran with his program because he was a 100% certain (like the god emperor that he is), that he would be successful. He risks alienating his social contacts and networks which he established over his lifetime and he did it all so that at the very end, when he become president he could contradict his whole campaign and do exactly the same stuff which all the other candidates would have done, namely sign TPP and open the borders.

That Trump guy sounds really stupid.
I guess it all fits together now.

You know, I think the same way, only mirrored.
I also think that the left is simply stupid/evil and that if they get to be in power that it’s because of dumb luck and because people are stupid/evil.
Needless to say, I am humble enough not to become smug because of this in-depth analysis of reality.

20

Is he, really, saying that?

I also don’t take retards seriously and I don’t make an effort to put up an image or have good manners. Does that mean I have no moral center or manners? No, on the contrary, it means I have a very firmly established morality and that I am not willing to compromise with any random bullshit that comes my way. Treating retards seriously is the first step to their retardation becoming widespread. Treating everybody with good manners, thus making good manners common contradicts the entire point about good manners, which is to discriminate, exclude, separate. Do you know what is another word for common? Vulgar, the antonym of ‘good manners’. Take honorifics for example. Using a honorific is good manners, but if used to refer to everybody, it would become common, and thus not good manners anymore. The purpose of honorifics is to exclude a particular group of people as more worthy of respect and good manners than others.

It is ironic that only after I had realized how laws, morals, etc. are social constructs which don’t exist outside of human systems I have proceeded to actually learn to appreciate them. I never took any of them seriously before because they were always imposed upon me by force, be it physical force or social (popularity, threat of ostracization). Only after I learned of their real function (evolutionary) did I come to appreciate them, well, at least the ones I found worthy. The next stage after moral nihilism, which is the realization that no objective morality exists for me was to construct my own morality based on my own understanding of the world, and I hold it dear and uphold it far more consistently than I would any morality that is imposed upon me and thus not my own.

What Hilary is saying (according to you, anyways) is just a reaffirmation of the popular opinion, of current political the status quo, by appealing to some “moral center” (her moral center, and of course her moral center is the only valid and permissible one)" and “human being” which funnily enough results in dehumanization of everybody who doesn’t live up to her certainly feminized version of a human being based on liberal fantasies instead of reality. There is no depth or value to it, and it is not something honestly accepted and constructed based on one’s own understanding of reality, which is why she is just saying it instead of practicing it. Instead of building a strong internal moral core you seem to be all about building a shallow external shell that is completely contradicted by the internal. And this to you is acceptable.

I suppose to you “good manners”, “putting up a nice surface image” and being a “human being” is necessarily connected to liberal values, in which case I guess Trump might say something like what you said he says. And of course, from the perspective of a liberal, anybody who disagrees with them is necessarily evil, intolerant, bigot, blah blah. But that is not the only possible perspective to have, I think Trump is simply more selective in whom he cares about having good manners towards, whom he cares about putting up a nice image to, and what his idea of being a human being is.