In all of our searchings for an ultimate answer, we have many times overlooked brute force and tried to look beyond it only to keep coming back to it at a species. To which the larger is not always the greater; first noted observance of this fact in the fight between David and Goliath in the Bible. Throughout time, strength of will has trumped every truth and destroyed it or waylaid it. All of Aristotle’s work, Plato’s philsophies; socrates soliloquies becomes nothing in light of the fact that one violent act could wipe it all out, reducing us to starting over, again, from nothing. What is the greatest truth in the universe at that point? Does strength of will deliver us our fates while truth takes a backseat; is that the truth of our species, or of life itself?
Can truth somehow incorporate this into itself to deliver itself in terms of the strength of will it takes to define an era or will we be completely reduced to acts of senseless brutality? And if such a strength of will can be found with truth and reason, is that not, itself, a sort of brutality to force itself upon the world; to establish the might of its will? A fledgling thing and yet it has already survived and grows stronger in spite of the violence of both physicality and mentality that exists in this world. What is truth but adaptation and flexing of will? What can truth be beyond those things? What is truth without those things? No matter how right you are, might will define this world and how does one have peace when so many people are flexing their might and will, striving for that top placement to mold the world in their image, for better or for worse; for their own goals and ambitions or for the better of all mankind. What greater truth can there be than truth means nothing without the will to support it, and peace means nothing without people willing to fight for it; love holds no bearing for those who forget it.
If you can show me any other truth than what strength of will defines through persistence and consistency, please let me know by keeping silent about it and not trying to change the world around you.
Not entirely. The fact is that the legal system has consequences, If you were charged with criminal assault. ,then I would hesitate to exact any such punishment to test the theory. And according to some wit, the legal system’s precedent goes way back to the ten commandments, which has it’s origin in God’s mind.
And as we all have come to know, God's mind is infallible and a-priori.
God is infallible. Men’s interpretation of him and his words are not. We can not directly or adequately judge a situation at all times; especially when we’re so far removed from the source of the problem as judges and juries often are in the world. If I were to be charged with criminal assault, believe that it would have been for good reason. The fact is that might still makes right and the only reason the government can enforce the laws they have is because they have the might to back it up, except that’s falling apart on them. Whether that might becomes misguided based on new generations faulty perceptions based on the faulty teachings of others who were similarly deceived by faulty perceptions based in childish innocence and naivety and gullibility or based in their spoiled natures to lie and distort and change to suit them over time. We should not have any system such as the one we have for it doesn’t solve as many problems as it should and in fact furthers a divide in mankind and creates a worse world than the one we already left.
You would only prove my argument in doing so, even if you could whoop my ass; not saying you can or can’t. I would put up a fight, but I’m not much of a fighter. I would probably awkwardly kill you with my knife after a somewhat losing battle, if anything; if I were to be honest. That has a very low probability of success. Thank you for reinforcing everything I said here and looking like an idiot in the process of trying to be against it. Welcome to the brutality of the mind; and I win, here. This is my stomping grounds and where I can fight and I can win the most; this is where I reign supreme against all others.
don’t worry about it. It was just a test to see how much people were paying attention to this thesis. There is no way to beat it because it’s simply ‘truth is defined by might makes right and vice versa; no truth can be had without the might and strength of will to back it up and true might and strength of will can not be had without truth.’ Anyone who argues with me on such a matter only serves to prove me right as they exert their might and will to enforce their truth. And anyone who can beat me with such a truth surely deserves to.
which again falls upon ‘might makes right’; When the laws of men contradict and seek to undermine the laws of nature, such arguments will always fail the black letter legal test that men have created; for their own creations fail those tests.
The laws of nature are jungle like, where the most basic law is eat or be eaten. But is that really a law? Might makes rightis a corollary, thereby, but arent laws created to counter those?
Even if we do not disallow the loose definition of law to include natural processes, the countering of those by man made laws have to predominate.
That is the rationale behind Blackwell letter law, and there is no mighty force on earth that can change that.
For example the ideas about the forbearance of murder is absolute, and even though there's are mitigations, the ideas if it is sacrasant.
Might may or may not block this absolute, but in effect the idea stands in all applications. When a society comes around to the righteous path it will realign with the absolute. The just of this is that interpretation never equals a misapplication, unless it is for utalitarian and exceptional reasons. The fact of exception has to be noted t
I don’t disagree with you. Laws were created to distance man from nature. Our laws, anyway. Certainly we should try to become better than what we’re born as, but just as certainly, we’re all born the same blank slate being influenced by our surroundings. What one man writes as truth is not always what other men see as truth.
Beyond that, we have tried to cut corners a lot in our own impatience and our own failings to learn what we try to teach. We try to prevent ourselves from learning; from making mistakes; not realizing the mistakes we make while thinking we’re on the right track and we only remain on the right track while being aware of those mistakes.
It is why hypocrisy runs rampant instead of understanding; people hating each other for what they are themselves or would be themselves if they had been through similar situations in life to guide and develop their understanding. The masses have always been controlled throughout the ages by people; singular individuals; who recognized the need of power in changing the world and sought physical power to do it with; they used mental power to make it happen. It has and always will be ‘might makes right’ no matter what age we enter.
When the tyrants begin to fully move us under their thumbs and reign over us with actual force instead of this bureaucratically ingenious jail cell of our own minds; then will you understand? Even might of the mind; such as what we are displaying here; is strengthened by will and he who has the strongest will wins out.
You know, Moses carved those stones himself. Every bible was written by the hand of man. Divine inspiration or not; man can only do and be and see so much at any one given time. This discussion we’re having is an age-old one. It was held by men who lived over 2,000 years ago and will most certainly be had again at some point in time in the future beyond our own lives; if our species continues on. It might take a different approach than what we have taken with it or the approach that have others have taken it with in the past; but it will be discussed again.
Truth can not be escaped, because it is everywhere; and everyone fights for their version of it; their perception. Might will always win the fight. Therefore, what matters just as much as the truth that philosophers bring is the truth that the ignorant bring, as well. Those spoiled children seeking to avoid growing up in a world of men that has given up trying and instead of trying to reach out to every man, woman, and child the way that nature and God intended; on a personal and intimate basis; we have tried to do things our way. Might makes right. What about when the universe destroys us with its might, as it surely will one day with or without our approval or our belief in God.
The complete picture of it is that we are either going to destroy our selves or find that balance in our species; or destroy enough of our selves and our species and our planet to initiate a rough restart wherein we hope we make it back to this point again before our planet is ripped to pieces by the cosmos. In the end, might makes right and makes obsolete even the wisdom of men. Spare the rod and spoil the children. Certainly people have gone overboard with it and even taken it in the wrong directions, but it still remains as sound advice. Might makes right and there is more truth to that and in adaptation of that basic premise than in any argument you could bring. In fact, every argument you do bring only seeks to reinforce that you yourself believe in might makes right even though you say you don’t. Your reactions betray you.
Eloquently put and probably convincing to those who wish to change the right a of those who wish to profit by those changes.
However the types of changes which proclaim the rights to bet those which are effected by the mighty, are reversed to their true stature,when those mitigty take a hit and their fortune reverses.
The absolute is well known by those fallen ones, even before
The fact of establishing whether the law was inspired buy god is not an issue as long as the belief exists as such.
God may be dead, but gods laws are irrefuted as of yet regarding their absolute validity. Mind you, I am neither, if disagreement with you, on account of this timeless debate.
You don’t understand that it is meant to convince those who would profit from its changes. I’m telling you how the world works; if we wish to instill a better future, we must reconnect man with nature, account for that nature and allow it its fair due and instead of trying to control so much; just each do what we can to ease back the negativity and violence. The more we try to do on a large scale, the more we overlook the small and minor details. And I agree that God’s laws are irrefuted. But, do you understand them as well as you should? What speaks through our art, I wonder. Look at tales such as Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings; the Silmarillion; even the Hobbit. The truth has never been the stories themselves; it’s always been what the stories tell of. Then, you get to the horrors and everything else and that is truth, too. It is a truth of what we once were; what we have been and what we may be again if we are not careful. Many people over-react to merely being informed of possibilities, thus creating the world of confusion we know and exist in and try to make sense of.
Don’t think for one second that I don’t know that these words also speak to the darkness in men. I have often been reminded of the dual nature of even the most well-thought out of phrases and statements; no matter how simple or complex. Let them try. Let them push people against the wall and let them see what comes of it. I have faith in humanity based on what I have seen of both it and God; and faith in God for the same reasons. I have seen how it has won out in me when I finally allowed it to work the way it was supposed to instead of trying to fight it in my misunderstanding. I took the time to get to know what I was seeking and to understand it fully.
That is why I can rest assured that it is the strongest and wildest and best force there is out there. You will never trump love, no matter what. You can only keep it down for so long, but it runs beneath the surface of who we are. We push each other to these extremes trying to see how far we can go and this is what comes of it. We will tear ourselves apart for reaching too far, too fast; and we really don’t care about the consequences in the long run, no matter what we say to the contrary.
At this point, I still love everyone in the world; but if my voice isn’t heard above all the rest then we are only going to continue our travels of insanity while seeking to be free from a cycle we can’t truly be free from until we accept it completely. It is that humility. I’m going to risk shooting myself in the foot with what I say next, knowing how some people might respond to it, but it’s something I learned while frying on mushrooms. The more I fought to keep control of things, the worse they became; the more I tried to hold on while feeling like I was falling, the faster I fell. When I let go of my ideas of control and just let go of trying to direct what I was doing, I realized I wasn’t falling. I was flying. The more I struggled to prevent the fact that I was flying, the worse my flight was. We are all flying through life, so to speak; each following our own paths and the greatest bit of advice was to just let go and enjoy the ride as much as possible. We might not always understand what we do, but if we try to prevent ourselves from learning and try to say ‘well, I would never do that…’ then we fail our selves in ways a lot of people may never know. I found that I could still somewhat direct what I did and where I went, but not to try too hard; to have that finesse required by nature; that respect and gratitude. I’m not perfect, either.
My strength of will was defined and shaped by love. Others were shaped out of hate and negativity. We live in an age where internet has been invented and all past conflicts become null and void as we finally enter that final frontier of the mind and wage our final defining war. And believe me when I say that might still makes right. I have seen it all over the internet as people have bullied and trolled and they have brought others down and made them like them, which was not wholesome like I aim and try to be, but slimy and manipulative. They like to use wholesome values to supply the justification for what they do; they like to trap good people in their own insecurities while they continue to victimize and then I realized they have only ever done the same things that have been done to them.
And I realized at some point, also, that it was really just a twisted version of the truth I tried to believe in; twisted by negative perception, but still the truth. They were still pointing out weaknesses with what they were doing, but good people had failed to keep learning and instead were trying to ignore them; which made me look at the whole of society again and what it has become despite all of our philosophies and wisdoms; all because men stopped truly fighting for it where it mattered most and trusted instead in men who claimed to be struggling under the problems of our time.
There has not been a true leader of men in a throne of power in quite some time. And even when one seemingly was; such as Abraham Lincoln; there was still obvious power over them, though people haven’t been able to pinpoint the exact source. What is really going on in the world around us? I’m afraid we might never have an answer for that. All I know is that the answer I found told me to be fed up of all the bullshit and to just wade through it as if it was never even there to begin with.
We need to stop being afraid of the worst of mankind and start being something that it’s afraid of. We need to be something that men are not afraid of, but the darkness inside of them is; that negativity. We need to make ourselves so adaptable in love and understanding and sense and reason that we will never have to physically fight again; and the path to that might lead us through more fighting. It is like the shield of Achilles that depicts scenes of normal life upon it, suggesting an alternative to war; friends or family or whatever is at stake. He fought so that he would never have to fight again.
I’m telling you that the fight is not over when people think it’s over, as evidenced countless times throughout history.
Hey, that was interesting but I could not digest it at one sitting. Will try read it and if I get that far try to reply adequetly.
Just to give you an imprinting response, I think as far as it's presented it cannot be held that love, life, and nature can be differentiated in most people's mind.
As a consequence it be becomes a matter of priority, of which we hold on a central position.
Love can be defined in terms of natural effects, meaning just because a man gets killed as a consequence if his actions by upholding god'a commandments, does not imply that god does not love him.
Christ Himself doubted god's love for him, on the cross, so love was consequently induced toward a sacrificial act.
Nature, similarly acts as if she was at times cruel, and th e nature gods of pagan times, ascribes to this notion.
Even if gods are discounted to present states of mind on the past, this becomes a mom issue in the contexts of preoritising the notion that's being developed in response to some occurance of nature.
They say that going backwards is entirely more difficult in a re-evaluation because for every stage there are intermediaries which are overlooked. That's th e problem with change toward the conventional or the reactionary, that bias against change will immediately surface as the result of seemingly inadequate facts revealing actinge on motives which are constituted on an unpreceived set of priorities.
Transvaluation becomes a matter of affording a turning away from social determinants toward a less controlled state
and always leaves power vacuum to favor those, who are more convincing in their rhetoric, or, are able to excercise more power.
This backward aiming process usually proceeds by differentiating and alienating social fragments of self interest.
Ultimately, the priority of how feelings socks as love, also loose their prominance as the objects of definition, and become comingled with other feeling states.
Here love looses or is changed into differing states, and may become a melange of fear dependency, and eve distrust, or, what have you. The result may be a very well loose dwdonitionm.
Underneath it all there still survives love in its purest form, only now it's reduced from social concern to feelings such as those mother's exhibit toward their children
Great movements have reduced to idiosyncratic dictatorships and end violently as results od frustrated elements trace singularly.
This too, is the way life works, and it is the context which determines the outcome.
The missing steps in a reevaluation create an open ended process where the result may be a disconnect from what was originally intended, for the reason that memory works progressively.
Idioticisioms :please don’t get me wrong. I didn’t intend to totally derive a total and comprehensive formula toward a conflict which is ongoing, however wanted to show in part, that the oligarchy is usually the format of governance which usually is the opportunistic entity which takes the afforded opportunity ,filling the void, left by a confusion caused by changes in prioritising the undercurrent of the commendable love which you are talking about.
Fascism can arise even among the most loving insititions.
The late Pope Pius remained silent on the abhorrent human destruction in the vaning days of the last great war, and seems to point to some kind of disconnect between divine and human love.
At the very least, the use of love, as the foundation or intermediary between truth, power, and will, becomes a bit ofa astretch.
We never had to build a society at all. Now that we have, how best to proceed at the current point in time? We don’t have to be telling people how to run their lives, though we can give good advice. Fascism is entirely the point. Rules are meant to be broken and there are going to be people who want to push us to break our own rules. Self-imposed rules.
Here’s how I’ve chosen to play my game: I play it fair until I meet someone who plays unfairly, then I play fairly by turning their tricks against them, which is what they usually mean to do to me; I then continue to play fairly with every other person I come in contact with. The problem is that a lot of what I do is considered to be taboo in society, because it infringes on a lot of things that people like to hold close around them. They’re addicted to their faulty security blankets of lies and bullshit. There is a time and place for rules to be followed and a time and place for rules to be broken; this is the unbroken truth of nature as shown to us by all of the animals around the world and by our own societies. Sure, there’s animals out there that don’t love their offspring and I’m sure that they all go through the same things we go through in their own way in that regard; but that’s what makes us different. We can talk to each other and we can make shit. Me can make shit, damn it; ain’t that cool?
And we’re using it poorly. We often don’t stop to think, because they’re so different than us, what’s that spider/ant/fly/plant/tree/cat/dog/etc. been through in their lives; what have they seen and what do they feel? All are living and thus capable of feeling. When we consider absolute truth and absolute will; we have to think of what applies to everything equally unto each group and each individual within the group in their own separate manners of learning and dealing with life itself. We are simply overthinking and thinking ourselves into circles trying to solve a problem that has no solution except our own inevitable death as a species. We can write the story and the truth however we please up until then; as long as it’s convincing enough and people can’t disprove it. That’s half the fun of being a philosopher.
Do you have the strength of will to create a foundation of beliefs that can withstand even the heaviest of scrutiny and to remain standing tall and un-changed? Completely flexable, able to take several hits and keep coming back for more while incorporating everything new into itself that it comes across. We do have to learn to live together on this Earth and this is an inescapable truth just the same as everyone has to live with the consequences of their actions one way or the other. They can either be honest about them and move on or have those actions follow them around the rest of their lives as much as they try to blame other people and refuse to admit their own wrongdoing.
When forgiveness is often granted time and again and these people take it for granted and never learn to have hope or faith in themselves to come through in a crisis. What are we truly arguing about when it comes down to it? You can only further cement my argument in place with any argument you bring because it becomes once again strength of will and might making right and you can only further hammer that into place. Thoughts are nothing without action; what action are you taking to change the world for the better?
Fairness may or may nor enter into a debate about will and power. If it does, it mayq not recognize or consciously deny the anti dialectical nature of the relationship between the will and the powers. It is the lack of focus between power and will which cause a misinterpretation of a revaluation.
It is the matter of application and your inverse use when you meet the sign that the projection is the subconscious awareness of this reversal.
Our conversation is a dialectic and it is reversed because it’s reactionary, in the sense that it refers to a sense of fairness.
You might as well substitute for fair good. Beyond that , though there remains the absolute good, beyond which no further options remains.
Long ago another ilp member wrote similarlyr, I really liked his style, as I do yours, and although the essence of it makes sense, in substance it misses the it's objective
Everything is fair, it just becomes a matter of perception. It’s people who try to make it unfair and we’re only ever limited by our own lack of imagination. We’re only ever our own worst enemies for not seeing a way out or through. What is fair is not always what people think is fair. We see it when we dream and when we create our art without forcing it out; the true artists and not the mimicking copiers; that other side of the looking glass where everything is so different and yet still the same. We glimpse what our world should be like and isn’t. We see what we can’t be for our societal impediments; our insanity. There but for the beauty and Grace of God, go I.
We know perfection so intimately and yet will never fully reach it. The least we can do is have fun while trying our best to fix what we can and to stop stressing and worrying to not have organized government, but to let each person be informed by word of mouth and to actually build proper communication and trust with each other in case a real threat ever decides to come along that isn’t us.
Unless belief comes between power and will, other then the self the proto self of consciousness, -the reflection of the primal consciousness of the description of that, which is the Word, the will is unable to overcome that power with which nature effects those reflections.
The belief in the word, as an upward evolutionary process of higher identifications, creates an oroborous of reflection,
Where the seeker becomes the sought after.
When this happens, which is always and all ways is happening, then, it becomes.
The becoming has always to become and the ideal always sought after as a sorts of far distant future object of Being.
The realization that it's here, is a threat, because then, instinctively a redundancy is felt, answer no further reincarnations are needed.
To be it not to be, tbst, is the question.
Answer :it's possible to be and not.
But that requires the highest order of belief.
It’s not a matter of just believing something; it’s believing something that continues to hold water after so many increments of time have gone by. The world is constantly changing and it’s not enough to accept one man’s fact as the ultimate answer, we need to keep pushing to add more to it because it is ever-changing as we travel along this vessel through time and space; it becomes everything we are and wish and hope to be. I have a belief that all can be brought together and that belief has never really been tried and tested as thoroughly as it deserves and I believe this to be the faulty ways people have gone about reaching for it and expressing themselves; as smart as we are, we’re still stupid.
I believe in it because it has yet to be proven as an impossibility; we just haven’t done it, yet. I believe we can all live better lives in terms of what each of us is missing out on in their lives and if there are such people in this world who truly miss out on nothing, then I tip my hat to them, but they better be wise enough to keep their mouths shut about it, or they will be put through some shit.
But there always have been such people, the Avatars, the saints, the great scientists, the mystics, the magi, the prophets, and let’s not miss out on the philosophers, well some.
and they shaped this world with the might of their will; again, might making right. They did not sit idly by and just do nothing. They followed their own teachings while putting work out into the rest of the world for it to see. They spoke of peace and everything else and still they only spoke of those things because it was necessary to do so; each one adding to the overall fight in their own way.
Each one speaking out against this thing we call organized society that we try to define to organize beyond our means to actually control because every thing is at least dual-sided in meaning and interpretation. They have only ever sought to free people from the enslavement of the mind and to return balance to this world. For there to be life, both light and dark must be given equal share, but that isn’t to say we can define what shares they get. What we can do is do our best to survive and have our species’ moral integrity survive in this world, which becomes a bit harder and harder every day for some with all the bullshit that happens in government and politics that so many people seem to eat right up like their favorite soap opera.
Nowadays if one of those people actually existed, people would look at them as if they were crazy or insane.