Two types of people: Philosophy style

We can tie people into two different types of people,
this can be done dozens of different ways:
Dog people vs cat people, mustard people vs Ketchup people,
(I am from Chicago and I think Ketchup is a crime against humanity)
football (American) people vs baseball people, liberal people vs
other, not so bright conservative people… the way the world can
be divided is practically limitless… if you got two people, you
can divide them up in a million ways, and there is another way
we can divide up people…

People who want a unified whole, in their world, their is no division,
all is one and unified, vs the other type of people who hold that
any attempt at unity, is doomed to failure… we can philosophically,
reduce this to two types of people, one is Plato… with his world of
one, the world of forms… and within his world, there is no change…
only forms that are eternal and forever…and the impermanent,
the world around us where there is no permanence… all is change,
but not real, at least according to Plato…This world, our world of change,
is not the real world…
the second person is Aristotle, who did accept and felt that
change was the essential aspect of the universe… there is no
permanence, just change… and a unified world view, doesn’t really
exists because the world itself isn’t unified…

so you have these two types of people, one who wants permanence
and unity of thought and the other type, they are about the change
and the very lack of unity within the world…The ones who stand with
Plato, tend to be, tend… are usually conservatives…that is why they
believe in and accept the bible and god… it creates that unified world
they so crave… that there is one world and we live, under god, within
that one world… that would be the conservative motto…
and their problem is change… what is change and how does one
account for change within a one world scenario of Plato…This
drive for a unified world, it is a human desire, it allows us to
know our place within the universe, we have a set place in
the universe and that makes people happy, by having a
world that is understandable and accountable…

Whereas the other people, the ones who can live within a
universe where the primary action is not a set and stable universe,
but a universe of change and ‘‘ad hoc’’ we are of the moment,
and this time, this exact time is also ‘‘ad hoc’’… of the moment…
There is no set and identifiable universe in a ‘‘ad hoc’’ universe…
Modern science and physics, has made it clear that there is no
center of the universe, that there is no set place upon which we
can stand and say, this is the place where we can know all/everything…
the fact is, there is no center of the universe, and thus there is no
set place upon which we can declare to be home for us…
each point of the universe is as good a center for the universe
as any other point… and in this moment, the allege uniqueness
of human beings goes away… this point, this point in the galaxy
is the same as any other point in the galaxy… and this is the real
problem for the unified universe set, for it denies them a unique place
in the universe… people want to feel special, they want to be
and feel unique, special within the universe… and having a personal
god, a heaven and angels, is one such way to feel a uniqueness,
god loves me… and I am part of his plan for the universe, that
certainly, falls into the Platonic viewpoint…

but as I said, science and physics, say something else altogether,
they say that we are individual, for a lack of a better word, atoms…
I am today, and tomorrow, I am not…and my own death, will
simply be another death of another human being in the midst
of billions of human beings… I am a discrete, isolated, atom
that, like all other atoms, change and become something else…
But I do have connections with other human beings, in that
we, as human beings, must meet our needs of food, water,
shelter, education, health care, love as our bodily needs,
and as our psychological needs of a sense of belonging,
of safety/security, of having self-esteem, of the course, the only
need that comes across both the physical and the psychological,
that of love…

If I were to describe the difference between people before
the two political revolutions, the American and the French, is
that people felt some unifying connection, be it religious,
or our connection to our ‘‘tribe’’ we belong to, we felt part
of the universe… and today, today we don’t…this lack
of connections that we suffer from today, it is the reason,
one of anyway that people have been so engaged with isms
and ideologies… it is an attempt to reconnect with the universe,
a connection we lost around 1800, or the start of the modern age…
The desperate nature of people, engaging in MAGA for example,
is an attempt to reconnect, to reunify themselves and the society
around them…the various isms that has gone on over the last
two centuries, from nationalism, to Marxism to conservativism,
to MAGAism, this are attempts to become part of a whole,
no matter how evil, Nazism is just another attempt to unify
people in an attempt to overcome the lost connections that
has plagued our modern age…

the question becomes, how do we overcome our own individual
discrete, isolated self/atom? I am part of the universe, instead of
the reality which is our connection to the universe lies only in
the atoms that make up our bodies… that change is the natural
and only path we have into the future…

This ‘‘ad hocness’’ of human reality, of human nature, we of the
moment and when that moment is gone, so are we…
the essential aspect of the universe lies in its change, not
in its allege permanence… for there is no permanence within
the universe… it’s just us…for we are, as human beings, ‘‘ad hoc’’
and many, many, many people find that very disturbing …
you often hear of people saying that they want to be part of
something bigger than themselves, and this is part of the avoidance
of the ‘‘ad hoc’’ nature of the universe… and the ‘‘ad hoc’’ nature
of human existence… change is ‘‘ad hoc’’ entropy is ‘‘ad hoc’’
the basis of the scientific universe is the temporary and ‘‘ad hoc’’
existence of reality…

But Kropotkin, will we ever find ourselves back into the Plato’s universe
of permanence and theory of forms? the bottom line is no…
as is mentioned by the nursery rhyme, Humpty Dumpty, even all
the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again…
but that is again, ‘‘ad hoc’’ at some point in the future, another
ism will arise that will unite us into an ism or an ideology, one
that allows us to be whole again, one with the universe…
which is in fact, no possible… for we are discrete, isolated
beings alive in a universe that has no values, no readily available
reason or meaning to it… or as a book I was reading, its title, was this:

''Values in a universe of chance""

How do we find values in a universe of chance?
indeed, that is the question… and in a universe of chance,
the only constant is change and its ‘‘ad hoc’’ nature… and how
do we discover our place in a universe that is chance, ‘‘ad hoc?’’
that is the question… and I am not sure we can find our place
via a fixed and set universe like the one supposed by the
Christian universe…

Kropotkin, Who are you? It seems that I am an isolated, discrete
atom floating about in the universe… which leaves us questions,
like the Kantian questions, ''What am I to do?" ''what can I believe in?"
and ''What can I know?"…and what answer can I find for those
questions given that we live in a universe of chance, of randomness,
a universe where probabilities rules, not certainty…

Kropotkin

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One of the interesting things about today is that we seem to
be in one of those interesting times, which happens occasionally,
the old way, the old values no longer work, but we don’t have the
new ways yet, the new isms that will guide us… the last time this
happened in the west, was the transition period from the Roman
Empire to the new age of Christianity… for Rome was the last
age of a very long, very long time period which lasted from
roughly ancient Egypt and Babylonian to give or take a few years,
till roughly 300 ad…the Middle Ages were a transition time period…
and that slowly after a thousand years, to change into a new form…
with the various revolutions, science, technology, political, social,
and philosophical that turned the world from a Medieval mind to
a modern mind… and today, we are at another pivot point…
as I said, the old values no longer work, and we don’t have
their replacements, yet…

and in very related point, we have a great deal of discontentment
and angst today… and that is due to this transition from the old way
to the new…change is inevitable… the question becomes, how
do we deal with or engage with this coming change?

the world is in flux… the question is, where are we going?

and the answer will be, ‘‘ad hoc’’ for that is the only answers we
have, answers of the moment… for there is no permanence in
values and beliefs…

Kropotkin

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part of the question we are left with is this:
is ‘‘liberalism played out?’’

we can see that in the past, say from 1800, the modern age,
that the current successful era we live in is due to its
liberal bent… I would argue that the reason the world
has been so successful has been because of the liberal world
we live in…From say 1800 to today, it has been a very
successful time… and yet Kropotkin, we have had
two world wars and the Holocaust… what does that say
about Liberalism?

I would say that both Wars and the Holocaust were reactions
to our liberal world… the two World Wars were attempts to
return the world to a pre-Liberal world… to a time before
Liberalism was the world order…and the Holocaust is also
an attempt to remake the world into a conservative utopia…
and both failed… thank goodness for little favors…

If one properly understands history, then the time after 1800,
the age of Liberalism has been the single most successful
event in the history of the world…for Liberalism has done
something that hasn’t happened before, it gave the average
person, the ‘‘common’’ man a voice that they never had before…
People for the first time in history, could become who they were…
the freedom to act as they desire, instead of acting because
they were told to act…the Liberal age did something that,
for the first time, allowed people choices… and the path to becoming
human lies along the road of having choices… instead of
religion and politics and the nation, telling people what is possible,
people decided on their own what is possible for themselves…
and that made all the difference in the world… the liberal world
is a world of making one’s own choices… and look at what happened?
Our modern world… with its advances in people’s lives, wealth
that wasn’t possible before, mobility in social, political and economic
terms that didn’t exists before the modern/liberal age…

Everything that has happened has happened either because
of liberalism, our incredible rise in our standard of living, to
its medical advances, to the rise of our modern technical
world, has happened because of the rise liberalism…
if we understand this correctly, the tremendous advances
of the modern world arose because of liberalism, not despite it…

Disagree, then how would you explain the incredible rise in the
standard of living in the world if not for Liberalism? it certainly
wasn’t conservativism because the world was conservative before
and it didn’t make the incredible social, economic, political
advances before the liberal age, before 1800…

we can tie the modern world to the age of Enlightenment…
where we began to doubt, for the first time in history,
where doubt becomes the primary means of advancing
history…I would advocate that certainty, as being certain
that the Jews run the world or the conservative viewpoint is
the viewpoint that advances our world…is wrong and that
is clearly the lesson learned after the Age of Enlightenment…
the basis of the modern world lies in its doubts and liberalism…

do you feel I am wrong? Great, feel free to explain the incredible
advances of the world after 1800? what cause that increase, if not
liberalism and doubt? if we were to remove liberalism as many here
has called for, then what do we use politically to make such
advances if not liberalism?

Kropotkin

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There are two types of people, those who can finish sentences

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So what’s the othe

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Both worldviews seem like nonsense, rubbish, caca…

Coincidentally I find fault with both democrats and republicans, oddly enough. Both parties are utterly beneath me.

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There are just three kinds of different people in this world.

:clown_face:

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That child is going to grow up so confused..

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And you wonder why the world is so messed up if you fill kids minds with the nonsense Mr Authoritarian spouts.

The youngsters are no longer accepting this delusional cr*p.

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Don’t worry bro, it’s all binary, a vibrating binary pattern. You just need to see MrA as part of the binary.

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Lol imagine a futuristic Jupian society. Giant digital billboards in smog ridden overcrowded cities flash N//S=N/S everywhere as a rich, soothing, sexy female voice repeats over and over… nobody ever knowing wtf she’s sayin:

“you are a spiritually lifeless binary processing biological machine which exists because it needs to exist to claim that it doesn’t exist”

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How have you cancelled out if you exist and lie by claiming that you don’t exist because you are at misrepresentation of reality Promethean?

You exist and don’t possess spiritual life you mean.You are getting illusions mixed up with the metaphysical.

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@niallm12
@ProfessorX
@promethean75

Binary nonexistence versus existence.

:clown_face:

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A binary processing biological machine doesn’t exist if it doesn’t possess spiritual life.It does exist because it needs to exist to claim that it doesn’t exist.

All of the physical is binary and the metaphysical SELF being separate from it,resides within the void between all vibrating matter interpreting the sounds,visions and sensations translated from varying electromagnetic binary energy waves which the physical body biological machine picks up via its receptor senses.

That’s kinda right, but there’s more to it. Not only do you interpret this binary data and experience sensations (that part’s right), but you are also only these sensations, there is no enduring ‘self’ experiencing it all, and there is no god behind it all. You are an autistic Humean bundle of impressions and not much more, poncho.

The thing is though, you know and I know and everyone else knows that you can’t prove your claim…you are guessing/hoping that your claim is correct.That’s all you have because all of your science has now failed and you can’t cancel yourself out because you need to exist to claim that you don’t exist and we know that you also claim that everything is a misrepresentation of reality (an illusion) rather than a representation of reality (a non illusion).So as you aren’t an illusion,you are a non illusion then that either makes you a metaphysical being or a lifeless binary processing biological machine both of which claim things.

You interpret binary wave data converted into sounds,visions and sensations so you ain’t sounds,visions and sensations Promethean.