Übermensch

Life would have much more dignity if man would not see himself as just one of the animals but as master of the animals. Then he would not have to buy his position in the society but could live in a super-animalistic way. Or even more: if the man is a moral animal, then he could live in a super-moral way. He needs to finish with the faith in morals. “Understanding is a sort of ending”. - Nietzsche
Long live Übermensch!

Long live cliche?

Cliche is between your ears.

Zing!

Apes are over men when they are swinging from trees. Nietzsche was basically telling us to behave like apes…and some people think he was a great philosopher. :-"

I believe he was a great philosopher, I merely pity him for the followers he has spawned who worship him like a god.

My issue here is that dignity is no different from morality: it is a controlling system designed by man to “bring down the superior animals.” If you (being “Cezar”) follow Nietzsche’s concepts on morality, as well as his concepts of succeeding the teacher, you should extrapolate his debate on morals to dignity, thus arriving at “dignity is a means to effect the same end as morality”.

Depends on which kind of morality: master morality or slave morality?

Slave morality requires humbleness which I hold opposed to dignity.

In my language to “lift up” means “dignuti” and that is what I mean when I say dignity. To be proud, so to say.

Pride is evil in Christianity…

Despite how we may resist it, at some point it becomes almost impossible for us to no longer seriously consider the possibility that Nietzsche’s thought may indeed contain certain crippling errors or more hidden, insidious complications, simply due to the tendency of this thought to consistently produce a certain various type/s of “admirers” of it…

I think “dignity” is the wrong word , “pride” is a better one to describe what Cezar feels, and it is not surprising that Nietzsche has such proud followers.

You are correct, pride is evil in Christianity, and for good reason…

btinternet.com/~a.ghinn/greatsin.htm

Okay, but check this out: If your “morality” is weighing the positive/negative consequences of an action (the essence of the Master Morality), you find eastern stoicism, like Lao Tzu, has a superior success/failure ratio when contrasted with egoism/pride. Pride may be taboo in Christianity, but it [pride] is predominantly compensatory regardless of it [Christianity]; it is (predominantly) simulating merit. Humility is (predominantly) dissimulating merit. This provides us with an intriguing result:
I) If P1 is prideful, but their pride simulates merit, they are degraded for their unwarranted pride.
II) If P1 is humble, but their humility dissimulates merit, they are dignified for their merit.
III) If P1 is prideful and their pride is warranted, their merit is degraded by expectation.
IV) If P1 is humble and their humility is warranted, they are dignified for their honesty.
V) Humility always “lifts up” the humble individual. Pride is always decadent.

I don’t think actions are in the spotlight. One is free to undertake any actions if the prescribed goal is to be achieved. One can sacrifice hundreds of thousands people because of one thought/offense.

You should watch more movies and documentaries about the ancient way of living.

We don’t want to be so reasonable: the philosopher is an abbreviation of life. He is a simplification of life while others are growing in details in the micro-cosmos.

We are only interested in taking the upper hand. Life is the will to upper hand.

Therefore one must know the conscience of other people, their morals.

I think you owe a second (or first) reading to Nietzsche’s view on Master/Slave morality.

Movies? You get your information from fiction? Documentaries, fine, but movies? Also, which ancient cultures in particular? Spartan, Athenian, Bushido, Mesopotamian, China’s Dynasties? What?

The philosopher is a complication of life, if anything.

Nietzsche would weep…your “philosophy” is an utter travesty of his views.

Don’t worry. You do the slave part and I will be fine too.

Don’t bother. Nietzsche’s thought (and quite a bit else, I imagine) is an aporia to him. Thus his fascination with it.

Is that your only response? No rebuttal to indicate your understanding of Master/Slave morality and my apparent misunderstanding of it? No clarification of what ancient cultures you are referring to? No substantiation of your contention that philosophy simplifies rather than complicates life?

I like Cezar as a living element of philosophy. He is the representation of what nietzsche’s philosophy became in the hands of popularity.

A superficial reading. Nietzsche never espoused a master morality. That was a result of later analysis (flawed, most likely) of his idea of slave morality.

Cezar wants to keep the slave mentality and become its opposite.

Nietzsche wanted to understand slave mentality (though not enierly… Nietzsche also said that to understand ALL of a thing can be detrimental) so as to OVERCOME it. He didn’t want to be at one the end of the current spectrum (or, my dear Cezar, go back to some retrograde one) but to ABOLISH it.

The re-evaluation of all values, the destruction of the spectrum.

After reading a great deal of Nietzsche, I feel like Zarathustra is my least favorite piece, and sadly the one most people use as a measure of Nietzsche’s contribution. He was very good at naming weakness, hypocrisy, vanity and contradictions. But if you read him correctly, the way he intended, you would not emerge with bravado and will to power others. You would emerge with a sort of humility, and a will to have power over yourself a little better. He was a philosopher, but of ethics primarily. When I read Nietzsche I’m more seized with thoughts of how we ought to behave. His message was simple, “…understand where you come from.” Once you do that, it uncovers a multitude of bad practices in thought and action. It’s not really his job to tell us where we should ultimately go. I know what people say about Nietzsche and will and nihilism. But for me, the best spirit of Nietzsche is about understanding yourself better, so that you can decide what matters to you, and that can EVEN mean being a more compassionate person, depending on what you happen to find beauty in. I don’t believe Nietzsche would deign to tell you what matters to you, I think that’s a creative process that he has no right affecting, and he knows it. By reading Nietzsche, you can get closer to figuring out what really matters to you. He was in many ways my favorite existentialist.

John, that’s one of the best summaries of Nietzsche I have ever read. Well done.

From the ridiculous to the sublime I guess.

In a way Cezar is providing a service, people will go on explaining what Nietzsche was getting at to Cezar which can only be a boon to people who are not that well informed.

Days like this though it would be nice if Nietzsche came back from the grave and told some his more ardent followers to get bent.