UK seeks to reset US-British Relations to War of 1812

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
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foxnews.com/politics/2016/01 … edent.html

Obviously, as I’ve pointed out in the past, I’m hardly a fan of Trump, his only favorable aspect is that unlike Hillary, he has never knocked off a country on a trifling whim. Both candidates are nuts.

The UK has pursued a strong Atlantic leaning to it’s foreign policy, distancing itself from Europe… but the fevor pitch of British insanity has finally hit a high mark… Parliament is now actively debating whether or not to ban the leading presidential candidate in the American elections.

This is a monumentally stupid fucking move on their part. The UK depends on the US far more than the US on the UK. They need our military intelligence far more than we need theirs, they need our air force far more… we’ve always looked at the UK as little more than a large, stationary aircraft carrier for NATO.

It comes at a time when the US has terrifyingly high budget responsibilities, we’ve borrowed well beyond our rational capacity to repay, and several key Obamacare elements kick in during the next president’s administration. Massive cuts are going to have to be made, and a very realistic question will be asked… NATO… do we really need them?

Truthfully? Hmmmmmm… we’ve been developing our middle defensive shield since Bush… and Europe has done very, very little for it’s own defense, undermining itself at every turn. None of it’s policies make sense. Further, its a money black hole, one that should of been cut loose decades ago, when the Warsaw Pact was going down.

Thanks for the help with the pirates, and the token coalition support, but it’s just that. We literally can go it alone, without you Britian, and Trump many very well inform the Queen during a State of the Union address that she’s FIRED!

What will this mean for Europe, England in particular? Terrorists are going to be shooting up your citizens overseas left and right, cause Trump is going to see the military and spy Intel, shrug his shoulders, and say “UK, not my fucking problem”. Terrorists will far more easily target your country. Political ties with the US will be greatly stressed, with a increased of diplomatic incidents. Undoubtedly trade will be stressed as our close relation falls apart.

Who’s gonna lead NATO? Its gonna be the EU plus Canada, and honestly, don’t expect Trudeau to do much… so just the EU. ISIS starts attacking ports shipping oil to Europe, Europe gets ancy, runs to the US like in Libya, all Trump is going to say is he will increase oil production… he won’t give a flying fuck about a coalition of the European Willing. Who is going to lead the EU air campaign? Germany? UK? Dare I say France? Your utterly fucked, hopeless, unless your hoping to invade Andorra or Malta.

UN Security council votes? Do you think he is going to side on the UK’s side, or his butt buddy Putin’s side? Trump is the kind of guy, who may just go in and cock block every European shitheaded idea your numbskulls can come up with in the UN, and Russia will follow suit, laughing hysterically. Its called political isolation… the US has far more weight to toss around than the UK and France does combined, and prior to the Cold War, US and Russia were natural allies, never had issues. Only thing keeping us hostile to Russia is NATO obligations. Prior to WW1, it was England and France who we’re our main strategic threats. We have a lot more in common with Moscow than London. We are both heavily armed, militarily active, oil producing states, both hate terrorists, both are Euroskeptic, both like Capitalism and strong leaders, with core Christian beliefs.

It is incredibly fucking stupid to alienate the most likely winner of your main ally’s political elections by banning him from entering your country. You got nobody else to turn to, and realistically, Europe is in too much of a mess to stand up and help you. If the US backs off, becomes more isolationslist, you’ll have more wars in the middle east, massive floods of migrants… not the little trickle you get now, I’m talking massive. We won’t raise a damn finger to help you… cause Trump just don’t give a fuck. He will remember these asinine liberal stunts, and how England decided to meddle in US political affairs. We get a little fucking pissed whenever foreign powers think they can sway or dictate our elections, especially lobster back British. We remember the shit you did to us during the colonial era, war of 1812, the thinly veiled threats during the civil war.

Do you slappy fucks really want to go back to that? What if the Scots vote for independence while Trump is in office, and Trump recognizes their independence weeks prior to the vote? Offer US peacekeepers to man Hadrian’s Wall, to keep the wild pagans in the south in check?

Yeah, all that wild shit can happen once yoy start acting as enemies, and not friends. Deep down inside, we dont give a flying fuck about you, your just convienant because you speak the same language, and act as a large airfield for our planes. You Queen waves like a faggot too, honestly, what is up with her stupid wave?

Keep the fuck out of our elections, if not, expect just desserts once he kicks in the door to the Oval Office and takes control. He is far less forgiving and understanding that Obama is, and Obama doesnt even like you. Its why he returned the damn statue. Trump might return your embassy if you piss him off enough, and we have no shirtsge of potential allies who will join us in the FUCK THE UK alliance. It will move the US and Pakistan closer tigether than we ever have been. Trump might even adopt LaRouche’s Anti-Commonwealth position… just fuck you in the ass ever turn your shitty, miserable country takes. Do you really want to alienate every major oil producing country on the planet? Do you think banning Trump will hurt, or actually help him get elected? Be very careful what you wish for.

We aren’t you colony any more, and we’re too big to be pit over your damn knee for a whipping. Stay the fuck out of our elections or else we’re going to wreck your house in turn. How does “Republic of England” sound? Why not, what’s stopping us from meddling in your affairs in turn, tit for tat? Or a return of the Stuart Monarchy, our good old Jacobite vibes are tingling. You think you can choose our head of state, watch us pick yours out for you in return, Trump style. Rename Buckingham Palace… Trump Palace. Its how we roll bitches. We will liberate the fuck out of you if you push us too far.

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You only won at home, not away. Then the dutch and then the french lost to us and your national debt [to them] become one to us. We got you to fight our war,s not us fight your wars. Suck it up bitches. :stuck_out_tongue:

Jokes aside, in a manner of speaking I didn’t realise anyone but us took any notice of us.

my subconscious racist suggest that; no muslims = no terror, so if humanity and the world is that linear then trump is merely representing that.

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What an odd and strangely revealing rant. Just imagine if the Freemasons hadn’t manipulated the Americans to revolt what the world might be like today with a free, democratic and unified British Empire in charge.

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Oh Yeah… :laughing:

Gyahd… :icon-rolleyes:

Can they get them more naive.

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The UK is a free and democratic state. The Freemasons are the ones to blame for setting up the USA, or do you deny this?

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Ever heard of the Royal Masons?

England has never been a free, democratic state. You have to have freedom of the press, free elections, free trade, free movement, individual defense rights, and open rational judicial proceedings in order to have a free, democratic country. England has been more honest than the new USA in that they have always admitted to being a monarchy, even with the later establishment of a parliament. The USA became a socialist, foreign controlled country, without telling its populous. And now lives entirely by deceit, as England always has to a large degree, just not so entirely.

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Presumably by “individual defence rights” you mean the right to carry guns. Well, I’d prefer the right not to be shot up in the street by a bunch of armed criminals, and the right to live in a safe country where not even the police are armed. We don’t have to worry about a dead constitution written hundreds of years ago, since we don’t have one. All those other things you mentioned, we have too. In fact, it was we that you inherited them from.

The monarchy, for all its faults and buffoonery, provides a continuity of government and statehood that other nations have abandoned at their peril.

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You mean a bunch, like the police?

If you cannot defend yourself against your government, you are a slave, whether well treated or not. Socialism is about you being the property of the state. You are to serve the state whether it ever serves you or not. That is not a choice you ever have with which to disagree.

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Actually, that was the direction many in the colonies in America were considering, since the 1760s.

The Americans never we’re allowed to lead their own units, if I recall correctly (might get the unit name wrong here), it was the 60th Royal Americans Infantry that was raised to pioneer forest fighting (Europeans didn’t fight in forests) adapting “undisciplined” (hahahahaha) Ranger tactics (most disciplined infantry force to this day, still the good standard) units, but decided it was best to have strictly foreign officers, recruited from other nations.

This was the first time England tried this. They did as good as one can expect of a regular army unit, they had a better grasp of North American irregular warfare that Brits off the boat, I followed on foot some of their battles here in the Pittsburgh area.

Big problem was, the US possessed a paralleled landed aristocracy that was educated and felt very British themselves. We didn’t have a deal like the Scots did of a shared representative Parliament, and the language Parliament used for dealing with the colonies closely paralleled what it used to subjugate Ireland… which really pissed the US colonies off, cause up till then they thought themselves as blueblood Englishment, with expected rights and privledges.

The US colonies had supplied a lot of troops in the English Civil War, we were the last to give up loyalty to Charles I, had good relations to one another, and largely left alone to fend off the French and Indians during the Seven Years War.

The Seven Years War wouldn’t even of happened if the British had been more prone to give colonials officer commissions. George Washington managed to get a major rank in a militia, despite excellent family background (his brother especially). It was George Washington who started the Seven Years War/French and Indian War… he killed a bunch of French and Indians in Jumoinsville (think I spelled that right) in Pennslyvania not too far from where I live. He then went to Fort Necessity to fortify it.

Had the British been more willing to recruit colonials like Washington into their officer corps, the American Revolution would of lacked George Washington… he and his pals would of been in the British Army.

Instead, he was left out, and the local aristocrats and intellectuals elected their busybody selves to local legislatures, who couldn’t help but notice the British Parliament was inept (definitely was) and wasn’t representing us.

On rare occasion, they might try to get the American view by sending for a American intellectual to come speak to Parliament, like when Benjamin Franklin came, to explain why Americans were getting increasingly pissed… but tgat backfired, abd resulted in the doctrine of Parlimentry Soverignty, which further alienated the colonies into a fevor pitch.

Benjsmin Franklin a good decade prior to the fiirst continental congress was writing satires and comedies, noting how large the US colonies were and puny Britian was, noting realistically it was only a matter of time before the US took over as head of Empire.

But the Brits had to fuck everuthing up. First it lost the US colonies, including its economic assets and manpiwer for new units, then the Irish. It could build a Empire without us, but had no chance of holding it. Once India said goodbye, that was it, zero chance.

It was the families that fought in the French and Indisn Wars here who became the generals after the American Revolution. My area produced many.

As to the Free Masonists, your a Pagan, you dont have a leg to stand on if yoyr going to attack shallow occult practices. Most free masonists are bored as fuck drunks looking for something to do other than sit at the house. They don’t do much of anything anymore save drive tiny cars around in parades, and smell one another fart in their bars. The intellectual spirit us dead, and the ability to place members into office largely gone save in rural areas like my own, and that is a joke here. I quite frankly fear park squirrels more, they bite sometimes when you feed them too many Reeses Pieces… sugar high goes to their head abd they jyst start biting everything, including your fingertips. Only conspiracy the free masons are hiding at this point is their geriatric wife swaps. They are a remarkably lame and boring bunch… but for the boting as fuck 18th Century, where the local Aristocracy and Intelkectuals were barred from most notable enterprise, it was the hip hop happening place… like a drunk facebook linking the intellectuals and wealth of the colonies together.

Facebook is far more dangerous today than the Freemasons ever were.

And the dream of a vibrant, united british empire … not appealing to anyone save the British. Why would we want that now, like were disadvantaged or something? No matter what, had we stayed in the Empire, England would be merely a province by now, like Rome after Constantinople became the capitol. If there was still tobbe a monarchy, the king might maintain a few palaces in the British Isles, a few museums, but we certainly would of forced the king to reside in North America at some point during the 19th century. Parliament would if had to absorb the US Congress after 1774, representing our elected MPs, or we would of arrived in ship, informing the British Parliament was meeting for now on in the North American Colonies. There is no way in hell we would of continued on with the provincial charade much longer.

Its a idea I think most British would find unappealing, being backwater bumpkins to their own empire instead of the center attraction… but that is exactly what would of happened, we we’re already developing that sentiment, but revolutionary fervor and hatred at the crown and parlimentry injustices overtook it.

Its more or less a lose-lose situation for the English.

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The British right to self defense was a Cromwellian one, the US preserved it, but it’s dying off in the UK.

Your much more likely to be a victim of violent crime in the UK than the US, they outstrip us in most categories except one, inner city gang violence, which is mostly gang on gang. Otherwise, it’s much, much, much more safe to live in the US than the UK statistically… in the UK, they are quicker to jump, knife, and beat you with bats, raoe, etc. They are a mean spirited, uncivilized lot, which makes the immenant prospect of printable guns freely accessible by all very interesting.

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Police in the UK do not carry guns. They don’t need to.

Socialism is all about giving people choices and raising their standard of living.

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That’s exactly what Lord Rosebery said, that the centre of empire would switch to North America. By dividing us, we were both eventually weakened.

Representation in parliament would certainly have come, as it did for Ireland in 1801.

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No, it didn’t eventually come for Ireland in 1801, it was a gut wrenching reaction, the British only repealed the same law we rebelled against in 1782, right before the revolution ended.

We already had a functioning continental Congress by 1774, so a bit late for us, and the Irish we’re always belittled in the Empire. I’m Catholic, no matter how great my ancestors could of been, no matter who they married, we would of been barred from ever having a descendant true to the faith assuming the throne.

Its for a similar reason Gandhi eventually said goodbye… the realization Indians could never really climb to the top, be a vibrant force.

And besides, I think North America, India, China, and Africa would be duking it out in a four kingdom battle to see who would lead the “British Empire” right now, in the early 21st century alternate universe. England would of had the manpower to conquer them, but once developed, best of luck keeping all of us from not trying to get the upper hand over one another.

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If you ever need a fort or battle spatially explained, post the wiki link to the battle and I will do it, especially North America. I didn’t know your s history buff, knew you archeology attraction, but strategy is a bit different, and many revolutionary war manuals, as well as colonial ones are image heavy due to the high rates of illeterscy, and spelling has changed so people can’t easily read them. I usually can, and if I can’t, I know where calligraphy sites are and can learn.

Only site I can imagine a blind person enjoying from this era would be Fort Necessity, it is heavily tactile… the ground is manicured, but you can feel the mounds for the batteries, the wooden walls, cannons, etc. They have a lot if reenactments, they set up camp, they probably let you touch whatever in their tents, guns, clothes, furniture, etc for every side.

I think the Hadrian Wall festival you guys had this year is over, England dumped a lot if silly money into it.

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Ireland was incorporated into the UK in 1801, and had full representation in parliament. Like Scotland in 1707, and Wales in 1536.

The Queen can’t be a Catholic, or any other religion except Protestant Christianity, since she’s head of the Church of England. The old ban on marrying a Catholic was recently removed.

England could never have held down its empire by force, in the same way that Washington D.C. can’t hold the USA down by force. It doesn’t need to, because that’s not the point.

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Thanks. I’m pretty into history and have taken part in Viking re-enactments, which is probably my favourite period.

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If your wanting to have a historic battle described, tactics and terrain for Viking/ Norman/ Varangian wars, I can describe it, I’ve had some familiarity with them. Likewise the Goths, I’ve got a little bit of a background, so won’t be too awkward to give a competent description.

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I think turd is right, if Britain was and remained genuine and treated everyone the same, and didn’t have a ruling elite [still], then we could have made an empire based on trade etc. There was plenty of money to be made via ruling the sees, without the need for all the imperial bs. It did cost 1 5th of the British national income to maintain its navy, [which is why the Americans nor anyone else at the time could defeat us at home and mostly away also. This is because the other European powers spent most of their budget on land based warfare, this due to their proximity] So that would have to be paid for in trade and business terms.

Thing is that in those times, and i think now also, taxation IS the means by which monopolies/nation states, earn wealth from money itself. That is the engine of trade. So Britain had to tax its citizens such to fund that navy. Now consider that e.g. Jamaica at the time was worth more than all the united colonial states put together, and the taxes the Americans paid would have been minute, compared to the cost of the war we became bankrupt from ~ where we fought for the colonist not against them. If that war cost enough to bankrupt Britain, and just one of her colonies was worth much more than America, then the tax Americans paid must have been again minute.

Personally I like America/ns, and am an nfl fan, so I don’t care if they beat us - away. :slight_smile:

but all that revolution stuff, well i see how it was all just the politics of the day, and that has just become more global. As i would be on the roundhead side of the civil war equation, and as Americans would have been largely that too [disenfranchised after the restoration of the monarchy], then i think i’d support the genuin side of it. Shame it didn’t work out all that well for them in the end, as they are now in the same craphouse as us ordinary British folk have always been since the time of the Normans. in a way the world is not so unlike a Norman type aristocracy, its mechanisms are simply more subtle.

Pay your taxes people, its the means to your enslavement by the worlds aristocracy.

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We didn’t get rid of the Aristocracy, just the state recognition of inheritable titles. If you had one, you could keep it as part of your name, but we deeply frowned upon passing it on to your kids. If you want a title, you have to earn it.

We even used to have to call George Washington “Your Majesty” with a slight curtsey… It was either Adams or Jefferson who told everyone to knock that crap off and call him Mr. President.

US favors mixed government, we’re a pluralistic society, and tried to balance Franklin and Hamilton’s contrary banking outlooks… I’m okay with wealth being amassed by banks and a few rich families, the way our economy is now structured, they can’t do much with it other than invest it, or put it into banks, do banks can loan money out. Its how we modernized cities like Pittsburgh, PA so rapidly, it went from wilderness to a industrial Juggernaut within a few decades. Its how we built our skyscraper cities, our docks, highways, etc.

I think people just get jealous, but even the rich don’t have as much access to their wealth as we think they do… it’s mostly tied up in stocks… they sell the stocks, they lose control of their businesses. Its gotta be put somewhere, and so they are always prey to political whims and market forces. There is only so much they can buy of types of stuff. How many IPhones? You got twenty? Good for you. Gold plated, awesome… I don’t care. I have a smart phone too, pretty much the same. Fancy car… 100 fancy cars? Can you drive them all at once? How many houses, can you live in them all at once? How many pants, shoes, meals, etc.

It gets silly after a while. Good for them. We know Marxism doesn’t work, so they are the lesser of evils. Many earn their place… like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates. Or guys climb up the corporate ladder. I’m fine with this. I’m a little put off with Ethan Couch though… I wish Capitalism somehow like… wiped his family out of the gene pool. He is the Affluenza Teen. His dad ran a successful business, but they clearly are the lowest of the low pieces of white trash I’ve seen. If you got enough money, it can act as a buffer against hardship. Clearly, Ethan was paying his school bullies off, and never got his ass properly kicked in school. He really could of used it too, it builds character, in knowing that someone desires to hurt you for being a little shit. Ethan never had this experience, so grew up to be a big piece of shit. You get them when they are young.

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Thank you, an interesting offer. I choose the Battle of Stamford Bridge.