Universal Compulsory Police Service

In the past few years in the US, the issue of police misconduct has been widely discussed. The police are widely (though not universally) perceived to be corrupt or incompetent. The US has seen multiple high profile cases of racial prejudice, failures of accountability, and failures of the police to do the things they are hired to do, and each one invites more stories and reinforces distrust. The popular acronym ‘ACAB’ shows the extent of animosity and disparagement in the US zeitgeist. This is troubling both for what’s already been accused, and for its long-run effects on the composition of the police force: if everyone believes the police are full of racist, violent, corrupt, small individuals, then the people who will volunteer to join the police force will be those for whom those accusations are true, or for whom those perceptions don’t matter, creating a more prejudiced and more antisocial police force that will commit more injustices and further erode trust.

One response has been a call to “defund the police”. Though the actual policy prescription behind the slogan varies and people rarely mean it literally, they have in common the idea that the police budget and the size of the police force should be reduced, whether merely as tit-for-tat punishment for misdeeds, or from some utopian idea that supply creates its own demand when it comes to law enforcement. But diminished policing in the wake of public outcry suggests that diminished policing has already increased crime, and the increases have hit hardest in the most underserved communities, where policing is most suspect and crime is most prevalent.

Police officers, for their part, are unsympathetic, and that reaction is understandable. Police are asked to do a dangerous job, they see themselves as heroes risking their lives for the safety of others ( and when they fail to act heroically, e.g. by failing to run into the line of fire to save a classroom full of children, they are excoriated by the public). And even before the past years in which public perception has waned so drastically, policing was hard on those involved. Police officers have long been at risk for depression and despair and all the reactions that those feelings drive – substance abuse, domestic turbulence, and suicide among them.

So we’re stuck in a cycle: public distrust and a perception of corruption (real or exaggerated) which leads to self-selection for corrupt individuals which leads to greater corruption and further distrust. And we can’t solve it by ‘starving the beast’, because the presence of police seems to do something to diminish crime; nor can we reconcile the current institution with the public because they by and large lack empathy for the people who serve. How can we escape? I offer a solution: universal service in the police force.

Requiring all citizens to serve a stint as officers is a long-term solution to the problems that must attend policing. It will change the composition of the police force, so that it is representative of communities subject to policing, and increase communities’ empathy both by having friends and family in the role and by having been in the role oneself. It will give greater insight into corruption problems in the force, as conspiracies become harder to maintain as the pool of participants and potential witnesses is constantly changing. It keeps policing happening in a way that can’t lead to viciously reinforcing self-selection. And it will give people an idea of what it means for something to be illegal: will people still support law-and-order policing of minor social infractions when they or their children will be the ones who have to enforce them? Will they still support lax gun laws when they have skin in the game?

As with compulsory military service, there will be resistance to compulsory police service. People know that policing is hard and dangerous, and they won’t want to do it or have their children forced to do it. But resistance to compulsory military service was driven by perceptions that the wars for which people were being drafted weren’t important. Defunding the police, even taken symbolically, is not a popular policy; people generally accept that policing is a necessary part of a well-ordered society.

In fact, I think there is the making of a grand political bargain in such a proposal. The machismo of universal service can draw in the God-and-country crowd, while dismantling the fallen institutions of modern policing and democratizing law enforcement on the ground could appeal to those wary of corruption and the role of the police as the army of the elite. The largest source of resistance is likely to be police themselves, and in particular their unions, who benefit from a restricted market for their services. But any solution to the problems of modern policing will likely involve a significant weakening of the police unions, and they tend to resist all meaningful changes, and a broad and bipartisan political coalition would have significant ability to overcome that resistance.

Interesting idea. Might not be actually the best idea in practice, but there’s something appealing about it conceptually anyway. I’ll ponder for a bit.

Rather do compulsory legislative duty, like jury duty.

If compulsory policing, rather do rotating local neighborhood security patrols via Neighborhood Watch in supportive partnership w PD, but not under supervision. There needs to be incentives that build community/collaboration, rather than breeding distrust among neighbors.

The major issue is time, but if you do it like jury duty, where employers must make allowance, and there is some kind of compensation, it might be doable.

FJ, devil’s in the details of course. The best counter-argument I’ve come up with is that I don’t think this is done anywhere on earth, which is often a sign that I’ve missed something. But that may be because the police aren’t really about keeping the peace but about protecting the elite from the rabble, and this proposal would seem to undermine that role. Israel’s compulsory military service is about as close as I can think of, and that country is pretty militarized (and there it’s not really universal, it’s only universal for Jews, so it can still serve the interests of the ruling caste).

Interested to know your thoughts after you’ve had a ponder.

Ichthus, I like the idea of a legislative jury as well, but I’ll save my thoughts on that for another thread.

I don’t think policing can be done like jury duty is. Juries are intentionally not experts in the determinations they’re asked to make, because the legal system needs to make decisions that anyone can understand. The presentation of evidence can be slow and methodical, and it needs to be enough to convince someone who has no special training in the subject matter. By contrast, you wouldn’t want untrained civilians to be toting guns and intervening in high-pressure situations. You’d need months of training to get people ready to take on that role (in the US, police typically get 3-6 months of specific training, often with additional eligibility requirements like college credits or military service, and their lack of training is still raised as an issue).

And if those ‘police juries’ aren’t toting guns or intervening, then this doesn’t address a lot of the problems: the ones who use the force are still self-selecting, still not representative, still subject to the vicious cycle of distrust. Moreover, trying to plug nosy neighbors into the current policing paradigm is likely to see those neighbors excluded from many of the interactions most in need of reform, on the flimsy pretext that things might get hot.

I like the idea of continuing rotating obligations after the initial compulsory stint, but having a good 2-3 years of compulsory service is valuable for ensuring that people get sufficient training and that most of the people in service at any given time have a year or more of experience. For comparison, compulsory military service in Israel is around 2.5-3 years, so it’s not as though that amount of time is making an impossible demand on people.

Recently someone pointed out on TicTok a webpage for one of the many police departments across the US.
(can’t recall which one maybe ATLANTA) It showed a death’s head metal skull with metal music, and a “SWAT” tank storms into shot at 1.5 speed. A bunch of paramilitary SWAT squad types run out shoot up a building, then run back into the tank and fuck off. All the time the strains of METAL blast out, and it ends with the deathshead skull image.

I’m not saying that all police are fucking morons that want to kill. But any young moron trigger happy boy might find such a recruiting film quite an encouragement. And the result would be that the net effect of such mind-bendingly stupid efforts at advertising the police is going to attract the wrong sort of moron.

Sadly in today’s environment and counter recruitment film showing smiling multi-ethnic and gender roles would be damned as “WOKE”.

So it would depend on who you want to be attracted to act as police officers.

I found it

Look at 1:30

youtube.com/watch?v=Yxt_foRCN7k

Let me know what sort of person might be attracted to this…

youtube.com/watch?v=-Yy4QXJqFmE

Carleas, juries get some training if they are actually selected. Same should happen with legislative & policing juries. Education into the system (& so a critical voice in it) should be a priority that doesn’t end after graduation.

Sculptor, thanks for those. That second one is … something. I think this says a lot about who currently runs police departments, because I’m guessing neither the SWAT-metal video and the police-jobs-being-sold-like-used-cars video came out of a professional PR/recruitment firm, but were put together by bored cops trying to fill out their overtime allotment. Even so, it’s another part of the vicious cycle of problematic policing creating more problematic policing.

I have the feeling that part of the problem is inherent to policing, though. As Klaas points out, people with abusive predilections will find the cover of being a police officer attractive. And as lovely as the NZ video may be for community relations, it’s still going to attract people with a hero complex who want to meddle in other people’s lives and expect everyone to laugh at their jokes (and campy recruitment videos).

I’d suggest that the kind of person who wants to be a cop is the last person that a society should want to police it.

Not in the way I mean. The comparison would be training jurors in cognitive bias, rhetoric and misdirection, techniques of persuasion, Baysian analysis, etc. etc, i.e. training that actually makes jurors into better evaluators of evidence. As a juror, training is mostly about who you can talk to, whether you can do your own research, how to return a verdict, etc. It touches on some of the other stuff, but even in a long and complex trial the amount of training is maybe an hour or two (I served on a jury in the past year, so this is from personal experience, may vary by jurisdiction but I expect not by much).

I agree, though I think this is much more likely to happen (and more valuable) if police service is expected to be universal. My understanding of the history of schooling is that one of the early justification was to ensure a pool of good soldiers for the draft.

Carleas,

With increasing technologically backed up intelligence, the constancy and the accuracy with which front line and internal detection interfaces the hope that the quality of police work will improve vastly, in not to mention the way forensics have become vastly more reliable , all that undercutting ‘bad-cop behavior.

The phenomenal rise in criminal behavior has no simple answer to discount the improvements in technological advances in law enforcement, only that news has proliferated that much faster and with less transparency.

The cross infection between police malfuezence, political ambiguity and the polarization of media hype, may have masked what really is going on with the gun control law.

All these issues are cross wired intrinsically and wouldn’t a straightening of the structural underpinnings be necessary before a debate , or whatever format can be taken up on the state and federal level?

The police are very resistant to changes made, their noddy system is an ironclad organized way of doing business, so the intermediary oversight committees appear as less potent as the public and their representatives would like them to be.

I am as confused as any citizen in trying to understand how things can work out the problems faced by all segments of society effected by law enforcement’s critically under par performance.

Technology is a counterbalancing way of trying to minimize what is a slippery sloped attempt to keep up with the worsening state of public safety.

That’s when they used to teach you how to be a soldier during your schooling, I think. and if they’re gonna resume the draft then they should probably resume that, too. But keep all the other stuff, including serving in the legislature. The smarter the soldier, the less dumb the reasons for going to war. No one should be exempt. If Socrates can fight as an old man, yada yada yada.

_
Psychological tests, but not ones with obvious/apparent/leading responses.

…also moral/ethical-dilemma tests, as well as role-playing in assigned scenarios of realistic situations… but I’m guessing that they probably already do that.

We have special constables here… civilians who volunteer to make London safer by investing their free time to take part in frontline police work, spending much of their time either on the streets, doing intelligence-based patrols in crime hotspots or taking part in crime-prevention initiatives.

They are really friendly and nobody troubles them, much… because they aren’t seen the same as waged police, so less-threatening I guess.

To quote Senator Joe Biden - “It’s a BONEHEAD idea.”

2 things.

  1. Denver started a programs called STARS that allows 911 operators to route certain calls to social workers etc rather than police and in nearly every case they were able to deescalate and help someone rather than throw them in jail. It has been by all accounts a huge success. Since the cops aren’t having to respond to those calls, it stands to reason that the funding that they would normally use for that purpose could be rerouted to those who are actually responding. This would technically, partially defund the police, but would create better outcomes in many cases.

denver7.com/news/local-news … -expansion

  1. I am currently at this very moment wearing this shirt that I got at a bookstore in Chicago. I was at the federal courthouse in Birmingham this morning waiting for press conferences about the hearings over the maps coming out of the Milligan case and I was really hoping to get caught by a local news camera in it.
    acabshirt.jpeg

Are you familiar with the “stop cop city” movement out of Atlanta? Or the murder of Tortuguita?

npr.org/2023/03/11/11628439 … Tortuguita.

Stanford Prison Experiment anyone?

Maybe if we lived in a society that trained everyone up on how to do things appropriately, the Stanford prison experiment wouldn’t have gone the way it did?

I’m not saying rotating as a peacekeeper is the way to train people up, but training people up to be peacekeepers and representatives and so forth (because you expect them to rotate eventually) will have better results than what’s happening now.

Yes, the government owning every body by compelling everyone into doing dangerous jobs against their will while giving everyone the legal and physical authority of force over others and which authority is, in almost every case, entirely undeserved and unearned. Definitely nothing could go wrong with that :laughing: =D> #-o

“Hey random person on the street whom we selected based on no screening criteria or standards whatsoever, surprise! You are now deputized and have the legal right to stop, search, harass, arrest, shoot and kill other people. Here is your badge and gun, enjoy!”

-you, apparently.

If they trained them up to do it right, it would be better than a jury of your peers.

& preventative

Yes because training prevents all problems. Like how police today already receive tons of training, and they never abuse their power or make fatal mistakes. Of course.

Weird to see we are living on entirely different planets somehow, but at least yours seems to be a bit nicer than this one.