Utopia

[spyderjoe]

Create a situation of perfection or sameness and immediatly differences are formed. People dont want to be perfect they want to be different. A society where eveyone aggrees is not a society of humans, its a society of ants.

Why do you associate perfection with ‘sameness’?

I think perfection is an illusory abstraction

Perfection includes difference.

Like the difference between concrete reality and abstraction.

A garden which has only one type of flower but five hundred of them is boring.

I agree.

A garden which has five hundred different flowers is more beautiful.

Beauty is a lie.

Difference is part of perfection, so all you have done is confirm that people want to be perfect.

No I didnt.

You are scared of losing yourself.

yes!

[Three_Times_Great]

@Unity1

@Three Times Great

@Unity1

What is the purpose for the existence of Humanity?

1. how should i know?

@Unity1

Why do you think Humans have free will?

2. do you think that we do not?

@Unity1

Why do you assume randomness?

3. ". fundamental “randomness” is scientific fact; look into chaos theory, behavior theory or quantum physics

@Unity1

Your theories are to be based on scientific analysis of society. What evidence is there that these theories are correct and will not shift by the time future histories have past?

4. the application of “scientific analysis” to historical social change is demonstrated by marx/freud/nietzsche/marcuse/deleuze/guattari/etc/etc/etc…

@Unity1

If history is a good indicator of future, which you seem to think it is, then your paradigm will shift.

5. of course.

@Unity1

Why do you say society exists for restricting and controlling behaviour? This is just a theory.

6. start a new thread; i will be happy to debate the point with you.

@Unity1

Utopia means perfect society. Perfect society does not contradict the purpose of society.

7. yes it does.

@Unity1

Historical selection is not a good indicator of desirability.

8. yes it is; it is the ONLY “indicator”.

@Unity1

Perfection is desirable by everyone.

9. absolutely not. most people do not want true freedom/perfection at all.

@Unity1

I generally agree humans need to develop in the ways you suggested in your second last paragraph.

10. thats good, because i am right.

@Unity1

The internal change in humans is inevitable. We are not free.

11. change itself is always inevitable; the direction of that change, however, is not.

@Unity1

There are many ways to predict the future.

12. name one, other than the “scientific analysis” you previously rejected.

@Unity1

The progress of Humanity throughout history points directly towards a practically perfect world society.

13. what “progress of Humanity”? why does it point to perfection, and not away from it?

@Unity1

… first there were families, then there were communities, then villages, then cities, then nations, then unions, then unions of unions…

… finally there will be a union of all the unions…

… then space colonies… then… ?

14. who knows? hopefully our species will survive in some minimally-recognizable form to find out…

1. You have no right to judge the future if you have no understanding of purpose.
2. We don’t.
3. I don’t need to look into these areas as I already have. Who created science? Who created systems that work randomly? Did the universe create itself out of nothing?
4. I’m not going to list all of the ways that the people you mentioned were not scientific.
5. So why are you so arrogant about your point of view?
6. Maybe I will.
7. The lack of logic you are displaying tells me you are not worth speaking to.
8. Arrogance.
9. Everyone desires. Funadamentally this is a desire for perfection. You have to learn more about human nature.
10. You are a smartass that thinks he knows everything. Ignorant and narrow-minded.
11. Bullshit. Prove it.
12. Ever heard of induction?
13. I find it funny you ask what progress of humanity when an example of progress follows.
14. You sound like a smartass undergrad to me who thinks he knows everything beacuse he has done 2 or 3 years at Uni. I can guarantee that by the time you are dead the world will still be here. Remember me on your deathbed.

Unity1, you have given me quite a laugh, i still cant stop actually for that i must thank you. genuine humor is so rare on these types of forums.

let me know if you want to start a thread regarding “forces of social evolution”, i have a ton of material for you to cry over…

[Three_Times_Great]

@Unity1

@Three Times Great

@Unity1

What is the purpose for the existence of Humanity?

1. how should i know?

@Unity1

Why do you think Humans have free will?

2. do you think that we do not?

@Unity1

Why do you assume randomness?

3. ". fundamental “randomness” is scientific fact; look into chaos theory, behavior theory or quantum physics

@Unity1

Your theories are to be based on scientific analysis of society. What evidence is there that these theories are correct and will not shift by the time future histories have past?

4. the application of “scientific analysis” to historical social change is demonstrated by marx/freud/nietzsche/marcuse/deleuze/guattari/etc/etc/etc…

@Unity1

If history is a good indicator of future, which you seem to think it is, then your paradigm will shift.

5. of course.

@Unity1

Why do you say society exists for restricting and controlling behaviour? This is just a theory.

6. start a new thread; i will be happy to debate the point with you.

@Unity1

Utopia means perfect society. Perfect society does not contradict the purpose of society.

7. yes it does.

@Unity1

Historical selection is not a good indicator of desirability.

8. yes it is; it is the ONLY “indicator”.

@Unity1

Perfection is desirable by everyone.

9. absolutely not. most people do not want true freedom/perfection at all.

@Unity1

I generally agree humans need to develop in the ways you suggested in your second last paragraph.

10. thats good, because i am right.

@Unity1

The internal change in humans is inevitable. We are not free.

11. change itself is always inevitable; the direction of that change, however, is not.

@Unity1

There are many ways to predict the future.

12. name one, other than the “scientific analysis” you previously rejected.

@Unity1

The progress of Humanity throughout history points directly towards a practically perfect world society.

13. what “progress of Humanity”? why does it point to perfection, and not away from it?

@Unity1

… first there were families, then there were communities, then villages, then cities, then nations, then unions, then unions of unions…

… finally there will be a union of all the unions…

… then space colonies… then… ?

14. who knows? hopefully our species will survive in some minimally-recognizable form to find out…

1. You have no right to judge the future if you have no understanding of purpose.
2. We don’t.
3. I don’t need to look into these areas as I already have. Who created science? Who created systems that work randomly? Did the universe create itself out of nothing?
4. I’m not going to list all of the ways that the people you mentioned were not scientific.
5. So why are you so arrogant about your point of view?
6. Maybe I will.
7. The lack of logic you are displaying tells me you are not worth speaking to.
8. Arrogance.
9. Everyone desires. Funadamentally this is a desire for perfection. You have to learn more about human nature.
10. You are a smartass that thinks he knows everything. Ignorant and narrow-minded.
11. Bullshit. Prove it.
12. Ever heard of induction?
13. I find it funny you ask what progress of humanity when an example of progress follows.
14. You sound like a smartass undergrad to me who thinks he knows everything beacuse he has done 2 or 3 years at Uni. I can guarantee that by the time you are dead the world will still be here. Remember me on your deathbed.

Unity1, you have given me quite a laugh, i still cant stop actually for that i must thank you. genuine humor is so rare on these types of forums.

let me know if you want to start a thread regarding “forces of social evolution”, i have a ton of material for you to cry over…

[Three_Times_Great]

@Unity1

We are a community first, and as a community we must maintain a level of tolerance and politeness. A community based on the exchange of ideas cannot persist when individuals are attacked as individuals for the ideas they express. Anything that inhibits the community will prevent us from our purposes.

oh wait, lets see what we have here… :

@Unity1

The lack of logic you are displaying tells me you are not worth speaking to.

@Unity1

Arrogance.

@Unity1

You have to learn more about human nature.

@Unity1

You are a smartass that thinks he knows everything. Ignorant and narrow-minded.

@Unity1

Bullshit. Prove it.

@Unity1

14. You sound like a smartass undergrad to me who thinks he knows everything beacuse he has done 2 or 3 years at Uni. I can guarantee that by the time you are dead the world will still be here. Remember me on your deathbed.

i certainly see your “tolerance and politeness” unity… the irony and hypocricy is almost too funny to stand, lol.

[Unity1]

I have already replied to this here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=167269&start=75