Value-manipulation:

[Orbie]

@Arcturus Descending

Obe wrote:

Arcturus: a facade among so called experts is incredibly hard to differentiate from the real thing.

I kind of feel that one’s deeds would be the thing which would differentiate the facade from the real thing, don’t you? Actions do speak louder than words.

Even well intentioned people carry a facade as a mask of insurance against misrepresentation.

But what’s the worst that can happen if one is misunderstood? They step out and explain themselves. As that naive?

True heartless gratitude is something so rare and hidden as a diamond in the rough.

You meant “heartflet” gratitude?

And it is as all totally true things, totally useless

.
Gratitude is useless? Tell that to the human being who’s heart is soaring out of gratitude because something has been said or done toward them and they feel loved or wanted or affirmed by someone - gratitude doesn’t necessarily end only in awareness or a positive emotion - it is capable of stirring the person on to do positive humane things one otherwise might not have done. It’s kind of like the pebble that is thrown into the pond - it causes and then creates ripples that extend outward and onward, it creates circles and more circles which reach out and touch many because of that gratitude. We don’t always see its utilitarian nature but it can be there - in leaps and bounds. But it isn’t deliberate or calculating. It simply exists and flows. Perhaps a geiser would be a good example.

It’s usually understood without expression. If it’s useful, then it’s calculatingly so.

Oh, Obe, you are the color of jade.
If it’s calculatingly so, can it be true gratitude? Then it is only stupid political correctness.

 Arcturus I have to admit You are on target, jaded is a good way to express it, which brings me to the point of the relativism of terms such as gratitude.  So I'd like to shift the scope of my reply toward the general term gratitude, and feel fairy confident in saying, that gone are the days, when absolute giving elicits absolute gratitude.  I am jaded in that respect, not necessarily how I would act under such and such situations, or how others may interpret my particular act of kindness.  But I totally agree with your assessment, otherwise.

[Dan1 (Dan~)]

Life-manipulation can be like a nice business. It’s so common. Exchange. Trade. Etc. But we don’t live in an ideal world. I think often manipulation goes down the crapper. So I stopped believing in the whole give freely thing, since it is often a scam. People will scam you if you are too nice.

[Orbie]

@Dan~

Life-manipulation can be like a nice business. It’s so common. Exchange. Trade. Etc. But we don’t live in an ideal world. I think often manipulation goes down the crapper. So I stopped believing in the whole give freely thing, since it is often a scam. People will scam you if you are too nice.

 Dan: the saying goes, "Be shrewd as a seprent, yet blameless as a lamb" if you are not too nice, You will be blamed.

[Kriswest]

@Dan~

Life-manipulation can be like a nice business. It’s so common. Exchange. Trade. Etc. But we don’t live in an ideal world. I think often manipulation goes down the crapper. So I stopped believing in the whole give freely thing, since it is often a scam. People will scam you if you are too nice.

It depends upon the society. If I still lived in an area where faces are not known. I would agree. I do not live in a city or town anymore. Out here its a different story. At first I thought it was because everyone knows each other so you have to toe the line but, it is not, part is but, most is not. There are those here that are crappy humans.
Most out here just want fairness. Fair trade, equal value, simple respect. It could be due to generations having to depend upon each other. I do know that out here are the finest people I have ever met. I can’t say that about the other places I have lived.

[Dan1 (Dan~)]

@Kriswest

It depends upon the society. If I still lived in an area where faces are not known. I would agree. I do not live in a city or town anymore. Out here its a different story. At first I thought it was because everyone knows each other so you have to toe the line but, it is not, part is but, most is not. There are those here that are crappy humans.
Most out here just want fairness. Fair trade, equal value, simple respect. It could be due to generations having to depend upon each other. I do know that out here are the finest people I have ever met. I can’t say that about the other places I have lived.

Do you think that society works best on small scales?

[Kriswest]

It sure seems so. It does have quite abit to do with value. People are not faceless masses. You know that face even if you don’t speak that much. We value what is familiar and may need.