Values as Symptoms of Neglect

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Why do you value truth? Because you were deceived as a child.

Why do you value love? Because you were neglected as a child.

Why do you value loyalty? Because you were abandoned as a child.

Why do you value hedonism? Because you were tortured as a child.

It seems to me that all values arise from neglect during the developmental phases of each individual. What people value is what they were most neglected, during critical stages of development. The same holds true for myself, for you, and for philosophy. Philosophy is within the realm of truth, insight, intellect, knowing, and learning. And so truth was deprived from me, as a child. I was lied to, repeatedly, over and over again. I was lied to…that “Science” has the answers. That there are “choices” in life, like believing or disbelieving in god. I was lied to that adults are smart and have answers, represent authority. I was lied to that there is a beginning to the universe. I was lied to at every turn. And so, I came to value truth in such a way to compensate for my lifelong neglect.

Nobody told me the truth. So I set out to find it, and grab hold of it, for myself. Such is the case of any philosopher.

But this is not merely a case of truth and philosophy. It is also a case of love, for those who never felt it as children. Neglected, unloved, unwanted. Maybe your brother or sister was favored over you. Maybe you came in last place. As such, these circumstances will lead to eventual symptoms. Of romantic desperation, of needing to be cared for, to feel wanted, to feel communion, connection, and part of a group.

As such, all values represent some form of neglect, a weak spot in any organism. Physically, mentally, spiritually. Values lead to virtues and vices. A virtue is merely the heralding of a value, and to present one value above all others. For example, truth and love can become raised in such ways to constitute virtues. It is virtuous to love those who don’t deserve it, for example. It is virtuous to tell the truth who don’t deserve it. Etc. Alternatively, hatred and lies can turn into vices.

But all values correspond to this. How can it be any other way?

2

Yep.

The perception (for whatever reason) of Hope and Threat. Thus what was missing becomes the perceived hope and what there was too much of becomes the perceived threat.

Too much => Too little => too much ==> too little => too much => too little…

Kind of tells you something about homosapian, doesn’t it.

3

You must have inspired me

4

I doubt that, but the reverse is still an option. :sunglasses:

5

I value truth not because I was lied to as a child, for christsake, but because it helps me preserve myself.

What kind of retarded way of thinking is this?

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Wizard: It seems to me that all values arise from neglect during the developmental phases of each individual. What people value is what they were most neglected, during critical stages of development. The same holds true for myself, for you, and for philosophy. Philosophy is within the realm of truth, insight, intellect, knowing, and learning. And so truth was deprived from me, as a child. I was lied to, repeatedly, over and over again. I was lied to…that “Science” has the answers. That there are “choices” in life, like believing or disbelieving in god. I was lied to that adults are smart and have answers, represent authority. I was lied to that there is a beginning to the universe. I was lied to at every turn. And so, I came to value truth in such a way to compensate for my lifelong neglect.
Nobody told me the truth. So I set out to find it, and grab hold of it, for myself. Such is the case of any philosopher.

K: and wrong once again. You were told truths from day one, everyone has their truths that they
put out. The church, the state, the schools, your parents, all had truths they told you.
America is the greatest country on earth is on such truth you have heard all your life.
That is an example of the many truths you were told. Now we reach the second part in which
you were lied to. yes, you were lied to. there is no god, there is no such thing as justice, there is
no such thing as freedom, America is not the greatest country on earth, lies, lies, lies.
that is all you have heard since your birth. A true philosopher would throw all the lies and
truths away and begin again. What is true? What is real? Begin again like Descartes did.
Start over. Reexamine your life. Burn away anything that didn’t go through your reexamination
intact. Be ruthless. See what you are left with. That is your truth.
I did so many, many years ago and I found my truth and have built my life around
the one truth that survived my severe examination.

Kropotkin

7

How is that not true?

8

Truth

I guess you aren’t preserving yourself?

9

No, you were lied to, K.

There is a god. And you were lied, deceived, tricked into denying his existence.

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K: feel free to list the ways we are the greatest country on earth. When you get stuck, let me know.

Kropotkin

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K: apparently you missed what I wrote. I’ll try again. I started over. I was ruthless. I burned everything
away and what was left was my truth. The one truth that survived was this… Don’t trust anything that
cannot be touch, seen, smelled, tasted or heard. don’t trust the metaphysical because it is just that,
metaphysical, beyond the physical, and not trustworthy.

Kropotkin

12

But that is flagrantly, morally wrong, K.

I cannot see my great-great-grandfather. Does that mean he doesn’t exist, didn’t ever exist? You would have me dig up his bones to prove his existence. You’re wrong. I am proof of his existence. Living proof. Because things don’t appear out of nothing. Things don’t happen magically. Nothing is uncaused. And because these prepositions are true. Because reasons and causes exist. Because this rock is here and not there, we can deduce facts and axioms about the world. We can know The Truth. We know this by observing how things are, how they change, why and how.

Your argument is relying on your senses, as if your senses do not err? As if you may not lose your senses? As if a man may not become blinded or deaf? If you lose your tongue, does that then mean that no food has taste, objectively? Nobody can taste food because you cannot taste food?!?! Is this what you’re telling me, K?!

Because this is how you atheists on the board have argued for the past four weeks. Tell me it ain’t so. Tell me I’m wrong.

Show me your reason. And I’ll show you mine, as I am right now.

Why does god exist? Why is he true? Because you don’t need to your great-great-grandfather’s bones to prove your existence. If you agree with me, then you must take a step toward god.

Yes, seek truth indeed. Value truth, the truth you neglect.

13

But that is flagrantly, morally wrong, K.

I cannot see my great-great-grandfather. Does that mean he doesn’t exist, didn’t ever exist? You would have me dig up his bones to prove his existence. You’re wrong. I am proof of his existence. Living proof. Because things don’t appear out of nothing. Things don’t happen magically. Nothing is uncaused. And because these prepositions are true. Because reasons and causes exist. Because this rock is here and not there, we can deduce facts and axioms about the world. We can know The Truth. We know this by observing how things are, how they change, why and how.

Your argument is relying on your senses, as if your senses do not err? As if you may not lose your senses? As if a man may not become blinded or deaf? If you lose your tongue, does that then mean that no food has taste, objectively? Nobody can taste food because you cannot taste food?!?! Is this what you’re telling me, K?!

Because this is how you atheists on the board have argued for the past four weeks. Tell me it ain’t so. Tell me I’m wrong.

Show me your reason. And I’ll show you mine, as I am right now

K: fun fact. I was born hearing impaired, I was born with no hearing in my right ear and have a 30% loss in
my left ear. So if the average person has in one ear 100% and the other ear 100%, you have 200%, my combined
hearing is about 65 to 70%. I cannot hear high notes, violins, flutes, depending the door and phone, the
doorbell and phone. (I have a hearing aid which allows me to hear those high notes) So if you ask me
about things that don’t exist, I can’t hear violins. As far as I am concerned they don’t exist, I can’t hear them,
unless they are deeper in sound. Soooo, you have your answer. Now others can hear violins and so they exist
for them.

I in fact have no proof that my grandfather existed. I can assume because I exist but I have no knowledge
of his existence. My mom speaks of her father, but he died before I was born, my middle name was his first name,
but I then take her word of his existence and as a philosopher, I cannot take someone’s word as to the
truth of any given matter. I must investigate on my own. I cannot assume anything, I cannot just
assume, well I exist so he must have existed. No, not necessarily. I cannot assume.

However I am curious, why are you so interested in assumptions about the world? if you are a real philosopher,
you just can’t assume anything. Sometimes it means reinventing the wheel, but that the way it goes.

W: Why does god exist? Why is he true? Because you don’t need to your great-great-grandfather’s bones to prove your existence. If you agree with me, then you must take a step toward god.

K: I don’t need to do anything. I have seeked the truth all my life and that is why I don’t believe in god.
it is not truth at least not my truth.

Kropotkin

14

No, K, use your reason!

How did you come to exist? Magically? Burst out of thin air? Ex Nihilo? No…you are proof of the existence of your great-great-grandfather. It is a simple logical deduction.

Humans give birth to humans, unless you know some alternative?

You don’t “take her word for it” that your ancestor exists, unless you need somebody to hold your hand and lead you around in life, from one truth to the next??? This is common sense, K.

15

K: ahhh, and common sense tells us the earth is flat and the sun circles around the earth.
I have been doing something else. Teaching you philosophy. I don’t care about my grandfather,
I do care about the method used to discover the truth. Philosophy is about going beyond simple
common sense. It is about looking at the world and taking nothing for granted. I could just assume
like you do that there is a god and assume like you do the metaphysical worlds exists and I could assume
all the things you assume but I rather not. I take my philosophical pursuit seriously to the point, where
I cannot take anything for granted and assume like you do. The fact is we don’t know anything beyond
our senses. How can we? If you want take for granted ghost and goblins and unicorns and god, please
be my guest. I however cannot take these things for granted, I cannot assume, I must search for
the truth of any situation. You take so much for granted. You are no different than any typical
American who stands up and shouts, America is the greatest country on earth, but in reality
that isn’t true and hasn’t been for a long time, but we assume it is. You go on assuming, which
is really nothing more than saying, its common sense. I rather be philosophical about life.
I don’t make assumptions like you do and saying those assumptions must be the truth because
they are common sense. I believe in philosophy, try it sometime.
You will be amazed at what you take as facts and truths and certainties are really just assumptions
and guesses and common sense.

Kropotkin

16

K, you’re wrong again!

You don’t “assume” your great-great-grandfather exists! You know it, as a fact. At least, you cannot compare such a “fact” with other facts. You are confusing the definition of facts, based on what is apparent.

Atheists claim that god is not apparent, but there is an order.

Atheists claim that god does not exist, first, and then subsequently claim that god is not apparent, last. So which is it?

Does god not exist, first? Or,
Is god not apparent, first?

If god is not apparent, first, then you must rethink what you know as an atheist. If evidence and “what is apparent” is your premise.

17

K, you seem to be “assuming the obvious”, which is unnecessary.

You haven’t considered the possibility that god is obvious.

18

K: ok, I’ll bite, how is god obvious?

Kropotkin

19

Because god can be everything and nothing.

Define god and see what happens, for yourself.

20

K: you said absolutely nothing. Answer the question, how is god obvious?

Kropotkin