Veterans to Natives - We're sorry!

[Ultimate_Philosophy (Ultimate Philosophy 1001)]

@gib

I don’t have any gripes with showing gestures of compassion. What I have gripes with is guilt by association. The far left these days are looking at the entire group as the basic unit of blame. It’s the white race who raped and pillaged and stole the natives’ land, not individual people. The race has a continuous identity through the ages, so what one race did 3 hundred years ago is what the same race today did. But the actual individuals who did those things 3 hundred years ago are long since dead. It makes no sense to blame individuals who are around today for the crimes of their ancestors–or worse, members of the targeted group who simply came into the group but whose ancestors weren’t even part of the group back then. Guilt is not a plague that gets passed on just by making physical contact or through biological lineage–this isn’t original sin. And the same applies to the victims: victimization doesn’t get passed on. You’re not a victim just because your great, great, great grandfather was a victim. People ought to be judged based on what they do in this life, and victim status on what happens to a person in this life.

So sure, a show of compassion by way of a public apology is a great way to show that you’re not like your ancestors, and I wouldn’t discourage it, but it’s not owed. The only thing I would discourage is the latter interpretation.

I believe family feuds should last for 2 generations, no more than that. By then the genetics get mixed up and it’s no longer really the same person.

[Fixed_Cross]

@Kriswest

Want to piss off American Indians, tell the fanatic ones online that anyone born on the American continents is a Native American. They then will say they are indigenous to America. Get the definition and point out that their ancestors migrated here. Be polite , be respectful. Watch the insults fly at you. I was called a bitch and whore… made me laugh. There are fanatics in every group, they are so easy to poke

Its always easy to poke genocide victims.

Theres just something about it that rubs people the wrong way.

[Uccisore]

@gib

Is apologizing for the crimes of your ancestors the same as admitting personal guilt?

If you’re kneeling and weeping and begging for forgiveness as you do it, then…yeah?

[gib]

@Fixed Cross

Its always easy to poke genocide victims.

Yeah, 'cause they’re dead.

@Uccisore

If you’re kneeling and weeping and begging for forgiveness as you do it, then…yeah?

I agree with the underlined part.

[The_Golden_Turd]

Like at the end of Natural Born Killers? I’m not sure he was asking for that.

[Kriswest]

@Fixed Cross

@Kriswest

Want to piss off American Indians, tell the fanatic ones online that anyone born on the American continents is a Native American. They then will say they are indigenous to America. Get the definition and point out that their ancestors migrated here. Be polite , be respectful. Watch the insults fly at you. I was called a bitch and whore… made me laugh. There are fanatics in every group, they are so easy to poke

Its always easy to poke genocide victims.

Theres just something about it that rubs people the wrong way.

Genocide victims? Ok so now all American Indians are severely inbred.

[Arcturus_Descending]

gib,

You’re not a victim just because your great, great, great grandfather was a victim.

The above may be right reason, gib - but the reality ALSO is that people do carry the emotional baggage of their ancestors forward in time…some might even say in their DNA.

So a conscious and “real” act of remorse toward those who have been wronged by our ancestors and verbalized and with good will behavior can go far to assuage the pain and loss of face toward a group and open deeper channels of communication.

[gib]

@Arcturus Descending

…some might even say in their DNA.

Yes, with a stretch, you might actually say that.

I guess it depends on what you mean by “carrying their emotional baggage”. A lot of descendants of once abused groups are simply taught that they belong to a group that was once abused by another group, one that is still around, and that justice has never been served. That might plant seeds of resentment. But that still doesn’t make them victims of said abuse. But then there is the sense of inheriting emotional baggage in that life for a particular group is the way it is right now (whether that’s economic, familial, culturally, etc.) because the abusive relations they endured several generations ago. For example, if a member from some group who is current abused by another group turns to alcohol and ends up beating his children as some kind of symptom of PTSD, that can start a vicious cycle of abuse (alcohol and more beating) that gets past down through the generations. But if that makes them a “victim”, it’s still not a victim of members of any particular group today. It’s victimization of whoever’s currently abusing them (in this case, a parent) and only indirectly victimization by a past generation long since dead.

@Arcturus Descending

So a conscious and “real” act of remorse toward those who have been wronged by our ancestors and verbalized and with good will behavior can go far to assuage the pain and loss of face toward a group and open deeper channels of communication.

Yes, that part I agree with. It’s what I meant by a “gesture of compassion”.

[Fixed_Cross]

Very clearly only a few here have taken the trouble, or simply have the soul to realize what it means to have butchered ancestors in ones heart.

Whoever thinks this is trivial or insignificant, I dont want to think about the povery of that persons heart.

[Kriswest]

Some realize that all of us have ancestors killed through land grabs and war. The American Indian is not the standout that they would like to think. They are not even the most recent.
Gotta love the dramatic choice of words though, so media of you.

[Is_Yde_opN]

Warriors met in life and both had enough health to treat the other as a worthy adversary.

Can’t even tell who’s ancestors are spinning faster in their graves. Those on who’s behalf …somebody… says sorry or those who are deemed not to have been worthy adversaries.

[surreptitious57]

@gib

What I have gripes with is guilt by association. The far left these days are looking at the entire group as the basic unit of blame. It is the white race who raped and pillaged and stole the natives land not individual people. The race has a continuous identity through the ages so what one race did 3 hundred years ago is what the same race to day did. But the actual individuals who did those things 3 hundred years ago are long since dead. It makes no sense to blame individuals who are around today for the crimes of their ancestors - or worse members of the targeted group who came into the group but whose ancestors were not even part of the group back
back then. Guilt is not a plague that gets passed on just by making physical contact or through biological lineage - this is not original sin. And the same applies to the victims: victimization does not get passed on. You are not a victim just because your great great great grandfather was a victim. People ought to be judged based on what they do in this life and victim status on what happens to a person in this life

Absolutely. I am not responsible for any thing my ancestors have done. I am only responsible for what I have done. I cannot accept responsibility for the
actions of others just because we happen to share the same bloodline or skin colour. Acknowledging mistakes of the past so as to avoid repeating them
is a far better way of dealing with this. Not guilt by association that automatically blames you because you had less than perfect ancestors. There also
is the problem of applying contemporary morals to any historical event as this makes for a more distorted view the further back in time that one goes