Are we just victims of our own successes and failures in life? nothing more, nothing less - people’s reactions to those successes/failures then shape how we handle them/what we do next - just a thought…
I guess that’s the cause and effect issue - anyone think that cause and effect can be surpassed, so that a person functions outside of the karmic law/all other laws?
Haha, I originally posted this topic on the Religion forum by accident - I’ll get the hang of this forum yet…
Victims? Why victims? Victim of success? And of failure?
Victims?
You’re a victim: when you have no control of the karmic law that determines your next move - once you transcend the law: you are a victim no more: as your fate is your own.
A self-sustaining unit is where it’s at: free from suggestion/the will of others/the universal laws that try to bind… 
Ahhhh. That’s what I thought. Nihilism.
A man is only as good as his worst errors.
Admit this, but do not give way to nihilism. We don’t owe anything to existence, my friends. One does not have to get it right.
Once you are cleared from this bad conscience you can learn to fail gracefully and with modesty, even wanting it, just for the sake of being absurd.
However if you feel you are expected to succeed, the pressure is on, and many men cannot perform on stage for the gods. I being one of them. I am no fucking puppet…I’ll tell you that.
I side with Kierkegaard, before all else, in his question to the gods: “why was I not consulted first?”
People CHOOSE to be victims or not. People can choose to not beleive in karma too.
Who says that failing at some venture makes you a vicim or leaves you with bad karma. That would be YOUR interpretation. But that may not be reality.
We all have options regardless of the situation. Sometimes people think they want some new job and when it doesn’t come through they think that is bad news. But sometimes it turns out there is something else waiting for that person better than that job. Is that person a victim of that event? Hell no. Being a victim means more than just trying some business venture and it does’t work out. That is not what being a victim is.
To say we are victims is to put a certain perspective on it. If I failed at some home business, let’s say, I may decide to NOT look at it as a failure (or a victim) because I learned from that experience. Using that label is “coloring” things in a certain way that is not completely objective.
How is someone a victim of their success? You seem to use the word victim in a way that has too many meanings.
Life is about obstacles that are in our way. Everyone has to deal with obstacles in their life. Does that make everyone a victim? No. A business failure is just an obstacle. Maybe a business success is one too. But it doesn’t make any one a victim, but thinking that you are a victim will make you one.
Call it what you will: until one’s moves are not governed by cause/effect: one is a victim of circumstance.
To not believe in cause/effect: does not mean that it has no effect on you - it will still be exerting it’s will - for it to have NO effect is something that one has to work at to achieve/to get to that point in time.
No! Being a victim will make you one - the thought is irrelevant: for we should be more than our thoughts. Thoughts are limiting, and can be transcended: then one begins to ‘achieve’ what one was born to ‘achieve’.
There are so many things in life that we have no control over. The world could end tomorrow, the stock market could crash, oil prices could go up a lot higher, there could be some bird-flu epidemic, etc., etc. And those were just global circumstances that effect all of us.
To say that a person is a victim because they cannot control their environment is really misleading. A person is a victim OF THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES when they can’t control their environment (or the circumstances). There is a big diference between being a victim and being a victim of your circumstances. That is a symatic issue though.
“No! Being a victim will make you one - the thought is irrelevant: for we should be more than our thoughts. Thoughts are limiting, and can be transcended: then one begins to ‘achieve’ what one was born to ‘achieve’.”
Your thoughts become your attitude and your attitude becomes your reality. I may have misquoted that but the point is that what you think is important. And a lot of what being a victim is is under YOUR control.
People can avoid feeling a victim of theft if they decide that their material possessions are not important to them. If your car gets stolen and you decide that you need more exercise or more interaction with co-workers by car-pooling, then it is your ATTITUDE that determines your reaction (i.e., victim or not). NO ONE can tell you how you feel. But feeling like a victim is something you do have a choice about.
Now, giving up your car is a bit extreme, but that was to make the point. But sometimes things happen, a loss of some kind, that we learn to simply get over because our ATTITUDE helps us see that the thing we lost was not so important to use after all. A missed jop opportunity, a loss of vitality with age, a close friend move away, etc., life is always about learning how to deal with loss so that we don’t feel so empty or wanting. (And many times we have no control over those losses.)
Your attitude decides if you are a victim or not. And you always have a choice about your attitude.
Our thoughts can limit us when we confuse our perception with reality. You can’t change reality but you can always change your attitude. So, it doesn’t matter what we can’t control because we can control our attitude and our attitude is what makes us a victim or not.
The best things in life are absurd.
Yes, I can generally agree with your ideas, but I do not subscribe to karma myself.
I do not subscribe to Karma either, but living in a world with people that do not notice that their actions have real consequences: one has to steer clear of such walking disasters.
It’s simple: on one side is all the actions going on in the world/ on the other side are those people who are aware, and want nothing to do with it all - as you can imagine: the former is much greater than the latter.
Those in the 1st group make life hell for those in the 2nd group: because the 2nd group do not play the game/make them look stupid/are not affected by actions and consequences because they have the intelligence to be immune from such an ancient ruling law.
I’m an observer, and I observe others falling foul of their actions, but they do not see it and continue on this cycle of non-learning.
Faust, Nihilism is only a contributing factor to the point I was trying to make on this issue: which has probably been discussed before on this forum.
A person or their thoughts cannot be summed up by one word, or function under that one word banner that has so kindly been allocated to them ie. put away in it’s nice little box, and labeled up for ease of use.
I think not.
Can a stoic be a victim?
I guess only if they let themselves be so/ if they get involved in the give and take of life: that so many people get dragged into, and that the smart/wise/aware: are so good at keeping ahead of, so unless they stay ahead of that game: they become unwilling victims of that circumstance.