Violence

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
1

i apologize for the language, but i can’t think of a way to adequately say what i want to say without doing so.

a friend of mine was telling me the story today of how his ex’s boyfriend was arguing with him on some trivial matter, the dialogue culminating in “because i’m bigger than you.” “so?” asked my friend, to the response, “well, i can beat you up.” “what then?” he persisted. “what happens when you beat me up? (pause) nothing happens, that’s right. if you beat me up, nothing is accomplished. congratulations, you are physically bigger than i am.”

i laughed as he finished the story but i’ve been thinking since then, why is violence such an inherent part of our nature? why do we jump to it as the one-size-fits-all solution for everything? i also did a lot of research on capital punishment today at school, which strengthened the need to answer this question for my own personal benefit. i have some friends that talk a lot about standing up for their friends and family, like it’s their core value. like it’s the thing that drives them to wake up in the morning. but i manage to stand up for my friends just fine by saying “shut up,” when i hear someone badmouthing them, whereas they seem unable to do so without yelling in someone’s face or starting a fight. i cannot fathom the need to do this, other than to make yourself look good for being so militant about protecting your friends’ reputations. a self-serving end is not standing up for those you love, it’s standing up for you, and nothing more.

if someone calls your girlfriend a slut, it’s likely that you’re gonna want to beat their face in. to be honest, i would too. the reason i wouldn’t do it, though, is because there’s no point to it. “what happens then?” now the guy thinks she’s a slut, and you’re an asshole. way to go. you’ve convinced one more person that there’s no need for you to exist on this earth. are you proud yet?

i don’t see the need for this. from my current vantage point, it has to stop for society to advance at all. so far in this semester, my reading list at school has consisted of a book about domestic abuse and child abuse, another book about child abuse, a book about the holocaust, and a book about hiroshima. i’m also debating capital punishment in less than a week. in our daily lives, between television, the news, and movies, we’re constantly surrounded by violence. is this the problem? have we become too accustomed to it not to do it ourselves? or is it an integral part of every human being?

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The reason you don’t have any problems when you stick up for your friends when you say “shut up” is that you have allready defeated yourself and your firends.

Where other’s are willing to present a challenge, which may lead to violence, you just skip out, your friends smile at you and find you to be cute.

3

so it’s somehow a fault to not start a fight when one is unnecessary, or to only stick up for people i love when it involves brass knuckles?

4

If you want to beat there face in then there must be a reason for it, so there is a point to it.
It’s just that your afraid, thats all.

Look at it this way if you win the fight then he was wrong to call her a slut, if you lose then he was right and your girlfriend is a slut.

mabey he is trying to help you out by making you and herself aware of what she may really be.

But mabey you don’t need his help, but then to be consistant you will have to accept that your friends don’t need your help…

Personaly a punchup is a natural way of solving problems, it,s the weakling with a gun who refuse’s to accept he is wrong, when he loses the fight who are the problem.

It’s imortant to defened or its not, so don’t defend at all, if your going to defend then go and get in there face, don’t be afraid otherwise you or the person your challengeing wont learn anything.

5

but the fight is inconsequential inandof itself as to how many guys she cheats on you with or whatever. whether or not you win or lose the fight, she might still be a slut. or even if you lose, she might still be faithful. i’m saying that the fight doesn’t change anything.

6

“why is violence such an inherent part of our nature? why do we jump to it as the one-size-fits-all solution for everything?”

If some one disagrees with you and you are stronger and you destroy him then you are no longer questioned. Violence worked in previous versions of our lineage. It does not now.

I have used this logic myself with bullies.

Cut me, Kick me, bite and shoot me… You can not change my way of thinking. I can only choose to agree with you.

This line of thinking also helps me to further understand armed services as just the enforcement of policies on non citizens.

Each mind is different. Each mind is wired differently. The only connection is that all minds come from a simular source.

7

I think a lot of the interpersonal violence - the “he called my girlfriend a slut” type of stuff arises from people just caring way too much what others think…

So the dude thinks she’s a slut. Does that make her a slut? No. Does it matter what someone else thinks of you, your lifestyle, your girlfriend, your political affiliation, etc, etc, ad nauseum? No.

It doesn’t matter what someone else says or thinks about you. It doesn’t change who you are.

People are stupid, they say a lot of shit. Those of us who are somewhat more able to pick out the shit should just walk around it, and ignore it.

cheers,
gemty

8

This is just a get out of jail for free card in which your taking no action because it dosen’t change anything but the fact above is one that you are in conflict with when you told that guy to “shut up”, because him calling her a slut is also inconsequential as well.

One way or another your being afraid is interfering with your instincts.
For some reasone if you where to come across a pair having a punch up you would view there actions as wrong.

? why are there actions wrong and would you get in between them and if they started to fight you, what would you do then.

9

beating someone up isnt that bad. unless its like a mob then it can get pretty messed up. but if youre just fist fighting someone over a matter of pride its really not as bad as people make it out to be. i mean people (especially the young) blow it way out of proportion and make it dangerous but fighting is like a primitive fun way of defending your authority.

most animals dont kill each other over stupid disputes only humans. its inherent to defend yourself but not murder i dont think. ive been in enough fights to know when people are going to quit before someone gets seriously hurt. it takes a lot to convince someone to kill another person. sane humans are bothered by hurting other people.

so does it prove anything? i dont know you can rationalize anything but its definately something to talk about afterwards.

10

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I understand what your saying , his fear does get in the way , but his principles are also right . Fighting is,nt really the ultimate way . Its a question of perspective , lions run away if they dont need to fight , sharks swim away , they dont want to fight unless it is absolutely essential , they think more for their own safety first & are never motivated by pride . I dont believe Animals feel the same type of pride that people feel .

You are maybe aware more than he is that we live in a world where fighting is sometimes necessary , but perhaps he sees the long term picture better ? Its a hard thing to consider . The world being the way it is . The idiots that can surround us .

But Without a doubt the long term goal should be a world where nobody has a fight because of some bitterness or hatred . Thats what martial arts , boxing & other sports are for , because its natural to compete , and if you want to fight you still can , just not out of resentment towards any thing else . This would be civilized I think

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11

i appreciate all the responses… believe it or not, a forum on the internet has helped me to at least glimpse the light for a minute.

i like what you said about the short-term and long-term goals of fighting in that last post, disciple. (not sure how to abbreviate your name, sorry.) it’s interesting that you bring up martial arts as i’m actually very interested in the philosophy of it, specifically the part dealing with this problem. the leader of the dojo i go to has been known to often use the scenario of a mugging to explain it. the quickest way to end a fight is not to start it… if a guy grabs you into an alley and demands your money, give it to him and he’ll almost certainly leave without anyone being hurt. your money is replaceable, your life is not.

i also think pride is a big motivating factor in much of the violence we see today. i would elaborate, but that’s pretty straightforward, i think. if someone insults us it hurts our pride and we feel the need to retaliate.

but again, i appreciate the posts, even those that disagree with me.

12

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There are lots of good books around written by masters of martial arts & the mind on the principles & morals of fighting . Unfettered mind of the swordsman by Takuan soho is excellent I hear . I read the book of five rings by Musahi a few years ago and thought that was good .

You might like " the art of peace " , by Morihei Ueshiba . He was essentially one of last men to have trained under a real samurai , Takeda Sokaku

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13

Violence is one of those things that seems to be out, a release.

Like cba said, most of the time (at least with males) we fight to get in a couple shots, release some anger that was brought to the surface by whatever. You’ll feel it for the next couple days but I think for the most part one person does not want to cause serious harm to the other over the fact he called your girlfriend a slut or something.

Once the fight ends there is usually a type of resolution, even if it is a bit primal.

I always opted for the verbal. A battle of words can hurt so much deeper.

14

Insecure fear
Makes them want to “prove” something
And they want to “win”
But their only method of “winning”
Is made of pain and loss.
It’s a false substitute for a true solution.

The general ideal that Jesus Christ had about violance–is that people aren’t meant to hurt one another; they were all created by the father, and each are brothers. He wanted humanity to function as a family, and put the good of the whole above the personal greed.

But I consider murder just as much an error as suicide. IMO all destructive acts are errors, due to weaknesses and underdeveloped parts of the self.

A week ago or less, my personal theory/philosophy denied activism and “save the world” attitudes. Before that it was the polic principal of “good” and “evil” (one pole and its opposite) never combining with eachother. Basically, everyone who is opposite should leave eachother alone, totally! Comination of opposite always brings mutual loss, doubble loss.

My anti-activism idea was for someone not trying to “destroy” or “fight” “evil”, unless it was hurting his own body. A self-preservational-selfishness was the main logic of the avoidance of battle with those you need not waste time on.

Just some ideas listed here.