Virtues are the muscle of the soul. We can use those muscles and make them stronger.
Just as with physical muscles, spiritual muscles develop better from targeted and deliberate use.
As we increase our capacity for muscular activity so do we become physically strong.
As we increase our capacity for virtuous activity so do we become spiritually strong.
With both activities we must practice to the upper edge of our current ability to increase our capacity for even greater ability.
Virtues guide us to where we can best target our efforts. They show us where every human being has the potential to grow stronger.
The techniques and regiments of practice can vary greatly but the targets always remain the same.
Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, Transcendence and Wisdom describe the enduring attributes of a strong soul.
A strong soul has a well developed courage.
A strong soul has a well developed humanity.
A strong soul has a well developed justice.
A strong soul has a well developed transcendence.
A strong soul has a well developed wisdom.
The most excellent human souls who have ever lived have all developed magnificent spiritual muscles.
As with any course of development the effort is long, difficult and powerfully rewarding. The possibility of substantial progress is possible when your aims are true.
Very poetic and all, but I have no idea what you mean by ‘soul’.
I’m aware of different meanings of the word, such as; “there were 24 souls on the bus”, referring to people. I know that is not your intended meaning. So that I might understand your writing, I need your intended definition of ‘soul’.
Thank you.
Soul is a conventional metaphor. I believe that I am not using it in a divergent way. I mean, we could explore that term endlessly if we wanted to, but I hope that isn’t necessary. Please let me know how we can best work on this further.
They used to call an answer like that a ‘cop out’.
If you know what you mean when you use the term, then you can convey that meaning to me in the form of a definition of ‘some’ exactitude, no? I don’t know of ‘common metaphors’, as the 'common man doesn’t even know what a ‘metaphor’ is. And, perhaps, you are not speaking to a ‘common’ man (whatever that is…), who is politely asking you to define a term that you use. If you are clear on the matter, you should be able to convey some of that ‘clarity’ in words, no? I’m not asking for much. I’m not being contentious.
This is a philosophy board, is it not? Is not critical ‘definition’ the most used tool on the philosopher’s belt? Especially when discussing such obviously widely subjective terms as ‘soul’ and ‘spirit’.
If it’s not too much trouble…
And I’m sure that there are more than just myself interested in your response.
Just your definition.
Thanx
Without education in the classics, I do not think there is a good understanding of virtues and all the related words.
“Soul is a conventional metaphor” is not a cop out, but language that is essential to speaking concepts that need to be spoken. I like the word “spirit” because it also means a feeling. My spirits can be high or low. When we have the spirit of high morale, we feel good because we believe we have done the right thing. When we have the Christmass spirit, we are enjoying the thought of making others happy. Soul music, deeply relates to some people. The words “soul” and “spirit” have various meanings and our understanding of our humanness is richer when we understand the the boarder meanings and their connections.
I call it a metaphor because I do not know the exact definition. That ambiguity and uncertainty is what make the term a metaphor.
There is something that we each touch, that touches us that I call a soul. I believe that the soul can touch and be touched. But even this is a metaphor because I can ask what do I mean by touch? Do I touch my soul as I touch my hands to the keyboard? I think not, so then what do I mean by touch? It can go on forever.
I could say the soul is the essence of life. But again what do I mean by essence? what do I mean by life?
Let me suggest that giving a definition does little more for us than providing us with a convention description.
But are you willing to explore this notion of soul with me rather than having me giving you a definition which will serve as a pile of blocks to knock over?
There cannot be existence without definition/context; they are One and the same!
I have found a ‘soul’ a few days ago (put two and two together). It is who we are, beyond ego.
‘Conscious Perspective’ = ‘Soul’ = Us
(Might be difficult knocking over this pile…)
That seems to fill the bill as suggested by the mystics and enlightened throughout history.
‘Conscious Perspective’.
And The First Law of Soul Dynamics that I have discovered; “For every Perspective, there is an equal and oposite Perspective.”
We can discuss if you like.
Have you made an argument of the word “soul”, because you have no thoughts about virtues? I believe the subject of the title is virtues? How many virtues can you name and what is the effect of them or lack of them?
I believe when a nation/culture looses its concepts of virtues, it self destructs. The spirit of the US was morale, that high spirited feeling that comes with believing we are doing right thing. Our democracy was intent on being highly moral and the culturally there was the belief that everyone had duty to family, country and God. This morality was a matter of reason, and liberal education prepared the young for abstract thinking and good moral judgement. I think it was a mistake to so completely elemenate this education in favor of education for a technology soceity with unknown values.
Rome was built on virtues and a sense of duty, and when it became affluent it lost the virteous drive and fell.
I believe we have as a good of an understanding of soul, as have of ego and id or our unconscous thoughts. Education for technology has made the culture excessively materialistic, and oddly it accepts we have an ego, id, and unconscious thoughts, but not a soul. That is an unhealthy bias. Not all things are physical, such as morale is not physcially and yet there is a huge difference between who have morale and those who don’t, as there is a huge difference between hard metal music and soul music.
Things are either physical or unknowable. Cartesian dualism as reference is beating a dead horse. It is placing spirit in asbstraction and physical experience in limitations not found anywhere in 21st century brain/mind studies.
Are you speaking to me?
Well, if you are;
No, I have few thoughts about virtues. It seems a trivial pursuit, as what is to be considered a ‘virtue’ seems to be a subjective and arbitrary distinction; one person considers ‘niceness’ a virtue, while another considers ‘honesty’ a virtue that trumps ‘niceness’; one considers ‘pacifism’ a virtue while another, ‘violence’… Remember, The First Law of Soul Dynamics; “For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective.” ‘Virtues’ appear to be solely a matter of (egoic) Perspective.
I’m thinking that you put the cart before the horse.
Having a concept of a ‘virtue’ means nothing more than having a concept of ‘love’. You can tell someone that you love them all day long, and if you do not show it, all the words are just wind. If you do show it, the person need have no ‘concept’ (or constant verbal reassurances) as he merely basks in its warm chocolatey goodness…
You cannot ‘fake’ a virtue. You cannot ‘fake-till-you-make-it’ with a virtue. It must come from ‘within’, who you are, Now. Lets say that we agree that ‘humility’ is a virtue. One must be a ‘humble person’, at the moment, by nature. One cannot fake that. How about ‘compassion’? Can’t fake that either. No ‘faking’. One must be a ‘compassionate’ person, at the moment. Cannot ‘fake’ it. Who would we really be ‘fooling’.
So, when a nation is composed of vain, selfish, ignorant, violent, capitalistic materialists, I don’t think that ‘peace’ can be ‘faked’.
We are all who we are, each and every moment.
Hard to discuss something that I don’t believe in. Unless we can say that a ‘virtue’ is merely socially accepted and perhaps ‘idealistic’ behavior. Pragmatic. Consensus. Otherwise, as I have been using it, it seems no more than an egoic judgement of someones behavior, base morality, pride… vanity… ego… ‘This’ behavior is ‘good’, virtuous, ‘that’, not.
Reminds me of a quote; “The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.”
–Richard Bach
You are looking for discussion while some are looking for a debate. Peas and carrots. Move the thread where discussion is encouraged and the debaters can be ignored…
About a year ago I joined a Virtue Circle. My intention was to learn enough about the program to get it into schools, but to my surprise I gained much more from the program than expected. I think I am a better person because of what I have learned about virtues, and my family likes the difference. I really wish I had known so much about virtues before I had children so I could raise them with knowledge of the virtues.
The virtues can be used to resolve any problem we have, in such away that we can really feel good about ourselves. I can demonstrate how this works. Anyone is invited to think of a problem and then choose a number between 1 and 52. You can keep the problem to yourself. When I have the number, I will provide the information on that numbered card, and you can see how the virtue might be helpful in regards to the problem.
I don’t it is that you don’t believe in virtues, but don’t have enough information about them. Past education taught virtues, but this was dropped from education for technology, and the cultural change is very unfortunate. Fortunately the information is completely lost and we can raise awareness of the virtues again.
Actually, I do not believe in anything. Period.
That being said, unless you know some major jargoniste alteration of the common concepts of ‘virtue’, I ‘know’ all that I need about them. They are egotistical and arbitrary, and thus, have no ‘value’ to me.
Logically, if;
Then it makes no sense to follow with;
But, again, you do not respond to my comments about the backwards nature of your proposition. But, thats ok…
Happy trails…
Peace
This virtue may be egotistical and arbitrary, and thus, have no ‘value’ to you, but I think when we practice it, good things happen. And to be honest, this was not my first response to what you said. My first response was not friendly. It takes incrediable effort to practice the virtues, and doing so is like exercising a muscle. The more we practice virtues, the stronger we get. The stronger we get, the better we feel about ourselves, and the easier it is to be virteous.
I need to add this- how we respond to life is a matter of habbit. Most of us, without training in the virtues, develop bad habits and make ourselves and others miserable. It takes a lot of determination to break our bad habits and replace them with new ones. I like myself a whole lot better when I achieve recognizing my bad habit and exercise the choice of using a virtue.
It does not register as physical. Most consciousness does not. But this does not mean it is not experienced physically. I’ll explain this in another thread. This one, for me at least, seems but another useless exercize in feuds over what nouns mean.
What is a virtue for some will not be for another.
A strong sense of virtue can lead to conceit and eventual disregard. In other words; It becomes lip service rather than a true virtue. One thing about humans; We become numb over time and generations. Pound it into us and eventually we ignore the whys and hows of it, we are numb. It becomes nothing more than a substanceless flag.
A well developed virtue is done by practice and thought. But, then again if you must practice and think about it then you really are not virtous, are you?
A peson that is virtous does not realize they are, it simply is what they are. So far I have yet to hear of a person that is.
We are too easily manipulated by society and family. To claim you have virtues is to contradict virtue. I no I have no virtue because I must practice and think about being with virtue. To use virtue is to better yourself for yourself, and that is hardly altruistic.
Peas and carrots. Move the thread where discussion is encouraged and the debaters can be ignored…
Well I was wrong wasn’t I?